If you were to shrug, where would you do it?
Posted by Mike_Quinta 11 years, 1 month ago to Government
With the technology Big Brother has today (spy cams, GPS phone tracking, drones, etc.), it’s unlikely a Galt’s Gulch would survive hidden anywhere within U.S. borders.
Which raises the question: where do you shrug?
1. Blend in among the looters and moochers and hope no one notices?
2. Or find sanctuary in another country?
Which raises the question: where do you shrug?
1. Blend in among the looters and moochers and hope no one notices?
2. Or find sanctuary in another country?
I've been in that situation before, long ago in the military and I know my answer: no. The very act of getting up and going about to do something with self-initiative would give you away in a heartbeat. Even something like cleaning up/making things more organized would be a 'red-flag' to the looters/moochers that you're a producer.
Sanctuary in another country is very tough. To go to any country with the idea that you'll have your guns is a pipe dream, unless you're looking at being among the criminal underground. Just like what Khalling mentions, our communist government will want their taxes as long as you remain a U.S. citizen. It implies if you leave to live overseas, you should renounce your citizenship if you don't want to pay them $$ they shouldn't receive anyway. I'm currently working on my bug-out plan, but I'm taking it with lots of salt, and it's only because the communists here are making it impossible for me and especially my kids to have a future to look forward to.
IMO, it really boils down to what you're willing to put up with, and without. It isn't a decision that's trivial. Looking at the big picture and seeing what lies ahead (10-20 years) for this country are the two factors in my planning.
Regarding your first sentence, I wouldn't waste time worrying about the technology being employed by DHS/FBI, etc. We have spent 12 years in Afghanistan, employing the best technology we have to futilely waste our resources going after a tactic. The tragedy is over 1,100 servicemen died in the process. And for what? Nothing. The ideology that rules the Islamists is still strong. The culture (VERY tribal) is still intact and they continue to briefly live to attack and kill our military. What's the point?
If the 7th century killers and their evil ideology can survive 12 years of being hunted down with the best technology & men coming after them, WE certainly can make it, because we are far smarter than the Afghanis.
The U.S. Military failed in securing a better future for the Afghanis because our idiotic, foreign-bought, politically-correct politicians on crapitol hill (Starting under Bush in '01) refused to identify who exactly is our enemy. Is it Al-Qadea? No, not quite. The Taliban? Nope, but again, not quite. The Muslim Brotherhood? Same answer. What binds these 3 together? Muslims? Yes, but Muslims aren't our enemy either. (Wish I could use italics) What's the ideology that guides the muslims & thus the 3 organizations I mention? This is the 800 pound, 7th Century gorilla that no politician, nor anyone in the main stream media want to touch.
It's Islam. To understand Islam, you have to understand WHO IS THE PERFECT MUSLIM? Mohammed. If you understand who Mohammed is and what he did, and what he said, (this is the big clue for politicians, especially those who deal with National Policy) YOU WON'T NEED TO ASK AN IMMAM ON ISLAM. You'll already know what to expect from muslims regarding how they view anyone who is not a muslim and will not submit. There is a documented 1400 year history on what Islam has done to The West. They haven't changed. They know who their enemy is. They know what ideology we live by. (If you're a Liberal, it's the Marxist Manifiesto, if you're a Christian, it's the Bible, American, but not Christian, the Constitution) And they have a game plan on how to destroy us. The muslims know what they are doing. We don't.
If our politicians are too damn chickenshit to stand-up and declare what is the enemy of the U.S, we will never win any war against these people. We will lose not just Afghanistan, but our very culture and country HERE.
To briefly illustrate: how did we win WWII? Was it a War on the Blitzkreig? No. It was against Nazi Germany. But what was the ideology behind Hitler's Nazi regime? Socialism.
How did we win The Cold War? Was it a War against Soviet Tank Maneuvers? No. What was the ideology behind the Iron Curtain? Communism. (I know you already know this, but I'm pointing this out to those who may not know, I don't mean to insult your intelligence)
Same thing with Islam. To think we'll beat them using any other method of identifying what motivates them is fatal to our troops, and our credibility.
Sir, I ask you to look up my prior postings. You'll find all the material you'll need to get THE TRUTH regarding Islam. I use the same resources that the muslims themselves use.
Getting back to why we are smarter than the Afghanis:
Those of us here in the Gulch are smart enough to know we are being played by those in elected and unelected government offices. We will not 'submit', simply because some Executive Jacka$$ traitor to the Constitution and the traditional American values says so. Afghanis on the other hand, MUST OBEY. Or, it will mean death to them, or their family.
We can do something about it, Afghanis can't, and based on personal conversations with troops who were stationed there (Combat Patrols) the Afghanis don't want to change. For them to embrace and ideology (Western Democracy - based on Judeo-Christian values) is forbidden. Who's says? Mohammed says. If they embrace it, it means death to them, or expulsion from the village. Which ultimately means death anyway because they have no where to go and everyone would know why & thus are commanded by Mohammed's teachings to kill anyone who leaves Islam.
I hope this answers your question.
And the whole thing about death to the infidel - literally, those who do not keep fidelity to islam once sucked into it - is brutal fact. Actually, anyone who says bad things about Mohammad can be put under a Fatwah - so you don't even have to be islamic to be put to death by them.
My other half spent almost 2 decades deep in the "cradle of Islam", where there was a constant pressure to "convert"... the whole "death to the infidel" thing, along with devotion to Christianity, was enough to keep the temptation at bay... but it's amazing the rosy picture they paint.
Of course, it's all taliored to whoever's being recruited - an old roommate back in my evil liberal days was sucked in because he was told it is a religion for the poor, the disadvantaged, the downtrodden, and the opressed... (Kinda sounds like Socialistic drivel, eh?) - My hunny, who was an engineer, was told it was a religion that cherished knowledge, intelligence, and prosperity. The woman who ran the AM/PM Quickymart down the street from our old place (who was a widow, BTW) told me how it was a religion that values and cherishes women, how it makes you feel safe and protected...
Or, it's message is exactly whatever they want you to hear. Oh yeah - if you flat reject it, or put facts of this hyprocracy in their face, you become one of the enemy. So you get your choice - be one of the converted, or pursued to be converted, or one of the harrahm - forbidden.
Once again, uncommon, WOW!! Awesome comment!!
Oh, this is for any liberal 'lurkers' out there monitoring this: Islam is NOT a race. It's an ideology. A political/military one at that. Anyone not convinced of this can tell me then, how exactly does a muslim change their "race" when they renounce Islam?
Dr. Bill Warner examined the Koran from a scientific point of view. He divides the subject matter into percentages/numbers. And they will astound you. Here's a spoiler. How much of "Jihad" is truly about "inner struggle" to be a better muslim? 3%. How much deals with war on the kafir? (you & me) 97%. Also, for Sharia Law, THE definitive book, go to Amazon.com and type in Reliance of the Traveler. It will be a giant Green hardback book. Want to make a muslim uncomfortable? Ask them why do they still kill Christians today?
I wont take what I do not earn, even to collapse the system. I have thought down this same line before, but ultimately it comes down to this: How much are my principles, and right and wrong worth?
Paraphrasing one of my favorite lines from Atlas. You who will not let one impurity into your steel, yet what have you let into your mind? Be careful what you let in, it may forever change you.
didn't your mom teach you two wrongs don't make a right? I say, it is more moral to be a Ragnar.
leaving the country:
1.no better way of demonstrating that you do not support present policies.
2.and historically proven: Were the original Colonists cowards for leaving England?
3.I have more time to write books on point to change minds, to make plans, to stay mobile, to grow or acquire food
4. I do not want to hide in plain sight. That is why, we are alike in some ways, DK,. All see my name in here. Would it have been helpful, if everyone signed their John Hancock on the Declaration of Independence as usernames?
that's me. coward.
Let's not forget why the Berlin Wall was built. And it wasn't to keep the Capitalists from invading illegally either. lol.
Agreed on #4, I do not want to hide in my own country. Damn communists. They don't know how to run their own lives, but they sure as hell know how to run yours.
Throughout history, when people leave, those left behind(our children, our parents, our friends, our co-workers), begin to understand that people aren't just bellyaching, threatening, they understand actions have consequences. This is hugely disruptive to people close to ,in this case, the persons leaving. viscerally real and a loss. Incredibly effective at getting the point across. It is called brain drain.
The only way to win this war is: intellectually, militarily and economically.
We need a multi-pronged attack against the forces of enslavement.
For instance, we needed Thomas Paine and Jefferson every bit as much as George Washington. As well as the people who produced the goods, services and arms that allowed a continental army to fight on. ALL,sir, were crucial.
My response: I was born into this world with nothing, and when I leave, I will take nothing. I acquire stuff and lose stuff. I covet nothing.
Moma bears are freaking scary creatures. :)
I am joking.... I think.
The squirrels taunt him through the sliding door!
there are a few posts in here addressing that topic. but it's always good to dust it off and look at it fresh. I am outside the country. there is no perfect place. some people talk about Chile, Nic, costa rica- all the latin amer. countries have their own issues and if there was a large event, instability there is higher. there is a chart at heritage but also the frazier institute on economic freedom. check that out. Recently, the US govt got a treaty signed with many other countries for foreign banks to report US citizen's accounts. it is very onerous on those institutions and that cost in reporting will be passed on to US citizens as well as make it harder to get the bank acct in the first place. all of this is quietly done while we fight battles on other fronts and most are completely unaware of this. Germany and Switzerland are two countries protesting this. we shall see how this shakes out. btw-the US is the only country in the world that requires US citizens who are living abroad to report and pay income tax. most countries do not allow you to have firearms. however, there are tax advantages to living outside the country. there are also bureaucratic nightmares to go through for residencies depending. Overall, if you choose latin or south america, your cost of living is significantly reduced, if you're near the equator, you have a year round growing cycle. I assume you've checked out international living? finally, well my 2 cents anyway, beware real estate deals promising expat communities and amenities galore. it is always best to "try it out" before deciding on a permanent location. even if you're sold on an area, I'd bet you would choose different arrangements after a year somewhere than when you first arrived.
lots of people in the gulch hide in plain sight. they aren't going to talk with you much in here about how to do that. to be honest, I can't think of anyone who is a regular contributor in here that has renounced citizenship though.
practically speaking, the beauty of galting with today's tech, means virtual gulch. a physical location that like minded people go to, just doesn't seem as necessary. when you live outside the country, you will be surprised how many people you meet who basically decided to leave for the same reasons. disgust with where the nation is headed, tired of dealing with burdensome regulations, frustration that the rule of law is overlooked by those in power, hate that the cronies receive all the benefit and small business and individuals are used to suck the lifeblood from.
If it all collapses, and the internet goes away, then I suspect we'd all find ourselves in the mountains somewhere doing much the same as what was done in Atlas Shrugged.
John Galt today would be in a Super Max cell in solitary confinement for bogus crimes as a lesson to deter others.
The only way that would not happen is if he invented cold fusion, phasers and proton torpedo (all portable soldier versions) and the ability to construct them all with 3d printers as well as the ability to produce all needed resins in his own home. Then weapon superiority would make the government leave him alone until they could get in secretly and kill him in his sleep stealing all his cool inventions for themselves. In the end that would only make things worse as the government would have all the new toys, and he would be dead.
It has to destroy itself from the inside and we have to ready with the needed skills, talents and philosophy to rebuild it free, and fight those that want to rebuilt it in some form of master and servant society.
Big Brother seems hell bent on turning capitalists into criminals as a means of control while turning a blind eye to the real financial crimes of the Geitners, Corzines, etc. who revolve between Wall Street and D.C. jobs.
Are you part of a particular community that is identified by its expat numbers? or have you blended in? what have been the most significant challenges you had to overcome making the transition? Do you see yourself moving out of the states for good? sorry to pummel you with questions, but this is an interesting topic to me. There are several producers in here who have lived abroad for long periods of time, as well as those who are from other countries. It is always difficult to explain to those of other nationalities exactly why we are so upset. of course, they're in the "Gulch" as well-so they get it. maybe they'll comment.
for me, it is the acute feeling of stolen. like any victim of a crime, I feel the overwhelming sense of violation, in the loss of my freedoms, and I'm not that old. well, old enough :) Overman is going to say something here if I don't clarify. I feel this, I am angry about it, but proactive for myself and my family. It's harder to "get" if you are just born into a society where these freedoms are already gone. However, throughout history, ambitious people have always moved where there was more economic opportunity and freedom.
A flood of expats over past 15 years plus 100 years of U.S. presence because of canal. You blend as one of many unless choose to live apart in places built for expats.
Those who live apart frequently don't bother learning Spanish. Choose to remain foreigners in self-imposed exile.
It is difficult to return to U.S. The TSA embodies all that is wrong. Some friends and family do not understand. The looters are resentful. Many of the producers dislike it because even semishrugging puts issues on the table they want to fix by working harder, becoming political activists, etc.
Regardless of the reason, they reject or fear A is A. The train billowing smoke heading into the tunnel is headed for disaster. The looters have crossed the Rubicon, and Rome is falling.
Have you heard of red triangles? Political prisoners were given those in Nazi concentration camps. About 400,000 died. How many would have fled in 1933 had they known their fate? Cowardice? Hardly.
I have no intention of wearing a red triangle. Panama is one means of avoiding this fate. There are many others.
For now, I keep ties to U.S., regretting what has occurred, seeing the train wreck coming, and preparing to protect my immediate family from what's ahead.
Healthcare is good and inexpensive. Doctor visit costs ten bucks. Most meds available without prescription. Even John Hopkins has a hospital here.
And if you live here, can get inexpensive health insurance and opt out of Obamacare.
My goal is to have a small machine shop business in retirement.
bigdog. you need to be contributing to yourself full out. by doing that, society benefits. have you read AS? what do you mean by sanctuary?
In todays age I believe it would be impossible to dissapear to your own personal Atlantis. Not to mention that the Government has grown so large they they can now keep citizens under surveilence. In coming years as things get harder and possibly collapse, those prepared and thriving are not going to be willing to share. The political machine and media will brand them as "domestic terrorists". Simply because of a few hot heads in this group will talk big and maybe even attempt something stupid.
If I decided to give up I would close my business. I run a discount building supply store. We cater to bottom feeders to upper middle class and help them to get materials that they couldn't afford at a Lowes or Home Depot in which we compete with directly. My store employs 5 partners and indirectly provides employment for about 200 contractors and companies in my surrounding area. Developers that use us are able to sell new houses with a better margin while installing better quality goods.
I am too young and have not reached the point where I can just close up shop and move to a place where I can dissapear and live off the land. (Like a personal ranch in Montana.) Eventually though....
Interesting niche you have for your business.
"If I decided to give up I would close my business."
I suppose the urgency of a collapse plays well into that, but are your skills honed in this business dependent on relationships in getting your supplies? Or is it more of a formula in meeting the demand of your customers? Outside the country, there is great demand for such a formula. Although labor is cheap in central america, materials tend to be expensive-
have you considered such options?
1. Being Stainless steel sinks. There is not a single vendor in the US that makes SS sinks. We order them from a company that Imports them from China. Well our Fabulous Gov' wanted China to "play fair" so they hit them with a Retroactive tax of 67% because of their dumping policies with SS. Because the tax is retroactive they won't just add the new tax to the cost. If they sell me a container and the powers that be decide that the penalty is not stiff enough they will have to pay the duty for current sales and previous shipments.
2. The second is cabinet grade plywood. China is being hit with a 27% tax on all plywood as well. (Noticed lumber prices lately). Rough stuff can be milled here in the states easily enough but the labor involved in cabinet grade plywood requires more than just machines. It requires bodies to make sure things are going as planned. China owns this market. Have not run across shortages but lead times have increased and costs are going up.
govt will get you coming and going :)
In the meantime there needs to be a place to escape to.
Those are his faves.
I'm thinking Congress put down some $$ for a place to run after this national ship sinks.
I was thinking it would be possible in remote areas of Alaska, Canada, or some such place. There are huge parts of the world that are uninhabited. Probably because of the six months of hellish winter... :p
my comments on not being smarter were focused on your apparent positioning of the US as smarter, not the members of the gulch...to get here you must recognize that for the last 100+ (at least) years our elected leaders and bureaucrats have conspired us. every law passed or regulation imposed is part of the assault on our freedom.
As you can see, I have no illusions on islam or south west asian tribalism. How to best correctly engage them (direct frontal attack, or containment like) remains to be seen, and is different for each geographic region (i.e., tribalism and other factors)
Sorry for not re-engaging sooner, I have been working hard to produce for my family.
2.must beat the ideology with economic freedom. Ireland was divided in a bitter religious struggle. When Thatcher freed up the economy and imposed the rule of law, what do you know? the average irish person would rather build a happy, productive middle class life than war..Sound Constitution. what did we do? we let them set up a islamic theocracy.
double dumb.
3.where is the propaganda battle? we are so pc we do not demand freedom of religion, speech in their constitution. TV and radio constantly showing what we are fighting for. most importantly, we are not vigilant about these ideas in our own country. we have an Islamic loving president.
Ditto on 2 and 3. Yep, all dumb.
To me, the problem started with Jacob and the Islamic faith does go back to his father Abraham and also back to Adam and Eve. The break between Hebrews occurred over a bowl of stew you could say. Esau 'sold' his birthright as firstborn of Isaac to his brother Jacob. Through deception Jacob obtained the firstborn blessing from Isaac and then fled. Later Jacob returned and became Israel and Esau left and became the Edomites, an enemy of Israel. What is happening in the Middle East is the longest running family feud in the history of man.
If you would like a good historical reference to the region I suggest you read this page in particular and the other pages if you prefer to know even more. http://www.swedenborgstudy.com/books/C.T...
I recommend you check out the following sites to help you further your understanding: www.politicalislam.com, www.Thereligionofpeace.com, and www.prophetofdoom.net. The videos made by Christian Prince of www.investigateislam.org, go into the doctrine in fine detail because he understands Arabic, if you have the time.
The deception that the “advances” have been made by Islamic civilizations in science and math is simple propaganda. The evidence shows me that the people they conquered suffered even further humiliation by losing their history and credit for their own discoveries and technology. Islam claims ownership of whatever scientific advances the conquered culture has, as their own. This trend is seen when Muslims tell us that Jesus was a Muslim, Abraham was a Muslim, and even the Native American were Muslims. This deception is also evident in the refusal to allow Jews in Israel to dig the ground and prove their “occupation” of the Holy Lands at least 1500 years prior to Muhammad’s birth.
I have other links to that further show the depth of deception by Islam, and I will post them separately.
the sites you send me to I see the deception. However, this propaganda does not come from 300BC. We have historical proof about this.
The only technological thing I know of that the Spaniards discovered the Islamists had was the stirrup. Now, where exactly did the stirrup come from? I don't know. It could have been from the muslims, or it could have come from someone they conquered.
The ancient Egyptians discovered the Earth was round nearly 2,000 years before Columbus. This is not a "victory" for the muslims. In fact, it flies in the face of Mohammed's claim the earth is flat. That said, you can see why scientific discoveries weren't welcomed with open arms by followers of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_... (middle ages-the greeks before knew about them but did not treat them as legitimate solutions-they were shocked by them and kept them secret-saw it as a dead end).
the islamists did not hide it, they developed math around irrational numbers
Now, with Islam, it is not repent or die, it's submit (convert) or die. Repentance is a Christian doctrine, not Islamic. Dealing with Islam is NOT difficult, it only requires an honest look at what it really is about. But remember what the TRUTH is in Islam? If it DOESN'T advance the cause of Islam it's considered BLASPHEMY. Who says? Mohammed says.
Once you accept what Mohammed commanded his followers on his deathbed, and that the Koran, the Sura, and the Hadiths can NEVER be changed, you'll know what you need to do to defeat it. To do so, requires something that Political Correctness is effectively killing: COURAGE.
I'm sure you recall some idea about Vlad The Impaler from the area of Eastern Europe near present-day Romania/Bulgaria. What the dhimmi-historians and history books never admitted was where exactly did Vlad learn to be so sadistic? Ready?
From the Muslim conquerors. You can do the research. But here's the spoiler: Vlad single-handedly prevented an early conquering of Europe when he out-terrorized the muslims by impaling roughly 20,000 of captured muslims on stakes and had them set up in a "forest" of dead bodies on both sides of the trail that led to his fortress. The muslim invaders had enough and turned around.
Vlad intimately knew the ideology the muslims followed. He knew exactly how to defeat them and it worked. Instead of recognizing Vlad's amazing strategy, the european historians conveniently omitted (dhimmitude) the source of Vlad's "cruelty" and whom he turned back.
What did Ayn Rand say about people who want to use force on her to achieve their will? She would respond with Force as well! To think we will defeat Islam using any tactic other than force is futile. I would put all my $$ on the muslims victory over anyone who thinks they can beat them using reason, logic, and appeasement. 1400 years of Islamic doctrine of war (Jihad) against the West hasn't been beaten yet. Who'll rise up and finally lead us into victory? You and I, and kathywiso. =)
And it starts with learning the truth about Islam. Islamic doctrine is the same, all around the world, it doesn't change. The strategy to beating it is the same as well. This is a bottom-up approach. Our "leaders" will not do it for us.
The best education i ever received was at the Naval War College. I focused in one of my trimesters on insurgencies, and each one is unique. I cannot say i agree with a 'pure' Vlad approach. But i do not have an alternative, as i do not have any (let alone sufficient) knowledge to recommend an approach. Successful counter insurgency efforts focused on winning the hearts and minds of the populace and implemented policies that reduced ability of the insurgents to sustain themselves. Sooner or later they are dependent on local populace to provide 'comfort.' Religious mandate (islam) exacerbated by a cultural one (tribal) requires strategic ingenuity that our leadership lacks.
An admiral in the korean war said something like: we lost command of the seas to a country who used turn of the century weapons deployed from vessels built at the time of christ. how do we influence a populace who survives on less per month than we spend at starbucks in one vist? Hamas is the biggest social organization in the middle east...should be no wonder why they won at the ballot box.
All we have to do is see the generals and admirals signing up for biofuels and other cultural issues and is instantaneously clear they are bought and paid for. Flag lists are scrutinized by senior DoD leaders. four star promotions are scrutinized by the white house...how else do we have a president who can say policy x was not his idea, but comes from the generals?
you and I are not that far off...although i am still noodling through Ayn Rands' philosophy and its implications. Only ready Atlas Shrugged a year ago...
I can't describe for you with precise words the look of hate my family and I received while living in Turkey. It never stopped. The lying over stupid, small things, and the crap that was stolen from us, and there was nothing we could do. I'm sure you know that every country that Islam has conquered was previously either Jewish or Christian and those conquered countries NEVER were Jewish or Christian again. The process of Islamization has been the same for 1400 years. Why? Because IT WORKS. I strongly (foot stomping) recommend you read Brigitte Gabriels "They must be stopped". That story took place in 1975 in Lebanon ~ once a Christian country, but not anymore.
Yes, I've seen the disgusting changes being made at the GO level and frankly, it frightens me. Our enemies must be beyond thrilled. Psychological victories have always gone a long way in enabling victory in any war. I find the lack of Real Men, both in the military, and in the elected offices disturbing. We will never get Strategic Ingenuity in the fight against Islam (because that's what this war is really about, not tactics) as long as we have muslims influencing our policy makers in the Pentagon and with the Under Secretary of Defense. Here's a case-in-point: Did we hire Nazi Leaders to help us develop a strategy to defeat Nazi Germany in WWII? Ok, so why then would we hire muslims, who are obliged to LIE to us in this fight against Islam? Did we hire British Generals to help us fight them during the Revolutionary War? (I'm very frustrated as you can tell)
Did you know it took muslims 10 years to conquer most of Spain? Did you also know it took the remaining Spaniards another 700 years to kick them out? How did they do it? WAR, and the end of it through threats of violence. (The irony of it all, I know) They didn't do it by being nice and politically correct.
Now, most people I've spoken with on this subject, (in person) usually tell me 'that was then, this is now. Islam is different today.' That's when I tell them about the 19,000+ attacks Muslims have done against The West since 9/11. The next excuse that follows that is usually 'but the terrorists were practicing an extreme form of Islam'. That's when I say the final thing that gets these people silent, "Have you read the Koran? The Sura (capitalized means Mohammed's life) and the Hadith?" No? Ok, read them and then let's talk ~ the point is Islam today is the same Islam as it was 1400 years ago. To change Islam means Mohammed would have to change. Since Mohammed is considered the "perfect" muslim, how do you or anyone expect to convince a muslim to change something that's considered perfect? I don't see this situation getting any better until we can somehow convince muslims to challenge their ideology. Which they can't because that means death.
In the end, after you and I are killed off, the fight will then be left between the muslims and the communists, I'm sorry, the democrats. My $$ is on the muslims victory. Why? Muslims believe they'll get 72 virgins in paradise. Communists don't believe in anything after death, so...yeah. Who do you think has the incentive to fight?
Thanks for serving your Country. I did just over 20 years and for the most part, I don't miss it. I feel bad our folks in the military though, they are not a happy bunch.
Do whatever you can. At least there are those who realize what they are doing, like you and many others here. The motor will stop regardless of our efforts, unless more wake up to this recognition. If enough people come to their senses collectivism will lose.
O.A.