Just take Wonk home, please. ;)

This is so hardcore. As a military brat with 2 brothers, my father was away quite a bit. Much like a single mother, my mother, with 3 children, had her hands full keeping us fed, out of trouble, and socialized (read exposed to other kids through scouting, sports, etc). She often tells a story about me as a young child. Apparantly, I was using plaid sheets to learn multiplication and area calculations long before I should have been. By the 3rd grade, when included in a rare, advanced, self-learning math program, I reached a 9th grade level. My parents knew early that I would outgrow their ability to teach me anything very quickly.

I am grateful for my public education with respect to fundamental reading, writing, math, geometry, physics, chemistry, etc.

That said, when I demanded an explanation of why phosphorus defied the octet rule in AP chemistry, I was sent to the principal's office.

I had the fortune to be in TAG/GT programs from an early age, and was granted a degree of freedom to use my sponge (a.k.a. brain) on topics of interest.

While I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions, I cringe to think of what life might have been like for me without it.

As my daughter says, "You two settle down or I will turn this car around." And she was saying this BEFORE she learned to drive.

You misunderstand. I ONLY pointed it out to show you how annoying it is. (Okay..I may have pointed it out anyway, but not in the same context and not with the "most" and "few"..that was me acting like you.)
So "most" only bothers you some of the time? I'll keep that in mind... not. I've never watched Star Trek. I was more of a Monkees watcher.

Yep...you said what's in quotes up there and then you contradicted it by saying that you're happy to pay taxes for public school. You can't have it both ways...you're waffling (go ahead, pick that apart too...pick aparter). I did NOT put you in Rush's camp or put words in your mouth...I told you what I heard and said that's where were headed. How are YOU benefiting from public schools that you're happily contributing to? HOW? You're sounding a wee bit socialist there, Wonk. (P.s. I don't write my comments with considerations to whether or nor you care for "every" or "nobody". You seem to be the only one that concentrates on these words that I use because I lack exact numbers because they would be impossible to acquire. I just know what I see...every day!

Indeed. The question is, "how do we get there from here", not, "it sucks, it's always sucked, and we're going to be victims of more suckage at the hands of our government and our society".

"maybe I should've gone with 'most people in our society...', which would have bothered you too"

No, can't say that would have bothered me. You putting words in my mouth does bother me.

I do appreciate the correction on the word "click"... It detracts from your point about picking apart the fiber. Clearly we are both capable of having emotional reactions that can cause us to say things better left unsaid.

Reminds me of a scene from the first of the new Star Trek films where Spock gives in and engages in a thrilling fist fight with a fellow student over an insult.

I stated very clearly that "I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions". Your first two sentences put words in my mouth. Likening me to some nameless target of Rush's in a parenthetical comment based on false premises is silly. 3rd and 4th sentences, I agree in principle, but I don't care for the use of "every" and "nobody". 5th sentence is tragic and highly relevant. I didn't ask for it both ways. Last sentence, first paragraph- my wife and I are incapable of having children. As beneficiaries of public education, we are perfectly happy to pay 60% of our $6K in property taxes to the education of children in our county. Admittedly, I would be much more happy to do it voluntarily.

So many issues boil down to urban vs. rural. My county (Howard) is close to Baltimore. It has excellent public schools for the most part. My position on the amount of money I'd be prepared to give to education would be completely reversed if I lived within Baltimore. I do not see that as a contradiction whether you opt to blast me for it or not.

This is a new era. Your points are valid today. I fully agree that "private schooling online courses" are a worthwhile endeavor.

Sure. Turning around this society is going to require a lot of good minds a long time.While I don't expect to live long enough to see the turnaround, I think that helping lay the foundations is a worthwhile endeavour.

I believe if governments (city, state, and federal) had been prevented from sticking their corrupt fingers into education from the founding, that entrepreneurs would have filled the necessity quite well. Further, parents would have the choice to send their children to religious or secular schools. Under a free capitalistic system, the schools that did not live up to the parent's expectations would have simply gone out of existence.

You would have your AP classes in a free system.

"Few" "Most" "Most" And It's clique not click, by the way.
How do you ever get to the meat of a point if you're picking apart the fiber. I don't have exact numbers (neither did you) I'm basing this on my own personal observation (WHICH SHOULD BE OBVIOUS). Also, it should be obvious that I'm excluded from the "our" comment...or maybe I should've gone with "most people in our society...", which would have bothered you too.
Have a conversation and take the points that are made and stop nitpicking generalizations when they're intended to be generalizations. Yeeek!

All, everybody, always, nobody, everybody again, all again... so many fully inclusive or exclusive words.

Public schools in the vicinity of military bases are quite different from public schools in static areas where very few kids come and go. Until I attended a public school far from a military base, I didn't know what a click was, and I took for granted that most would accept me as a newcomer, and likewise, I would accept most newcomers, without much labeling.

"Our society values all the wrong things"- judgement, condemnation, victimization? Are you a member (you did claim ownership/inclusion through use of the word "our")? Do you value the wrong things? Does the society really value ALL the wrong things while you are a member?

So you think, and trust, that the gov's roll is to educate children? And to feed them too for that matter? (I heard on Rush yesterday that some official is pushing for ALL students to get "free" lunch...to take the burden off the parents. THAT'S where we're headed, Wonk. The gov doing everything for everyone and won't it all be grand and rosey and fair??) Children should be their parent's responsibility...on every level. Nobody else played a part in creating someone elses kids. As it stands now people are paid to have kids with tax breaks and refunds when they haven't (or have barely) paid into the tax system. You can't have it both ways.. And what you said up there was because YOU benefited then gov schools are okay fine with you... I ask "at who's expense?"
Plus with the world wide web that we have nowadays you can find anything you need to teach/learn in school. I hope someone comes up with private schooling online courses. Also..schools are getting more dangerous...many many reasons to home school.

Agreed. Unfortunately public school is seen as free daycare by some. You should see the amount of kids that are picked up late everyday...like school staff has nothing else to do but sit and wait with kids who are waiting for their rides. The parents just think it's okay to be late. Let's face facts...home schooling or choosing a private school would take more thinking than a lot of parents could muster...or even want to do. Their kid's education is somebody elses responsibility (problem)...not theirs.

I agree. Perfect for me would be 100% of children either home schooled or sent to private schools of the parent's choice.

Bingo! We were just having a talk last night about how we all hated high school because it seemed like everybody but us was doing drugs of off their rocker in some other way. Like having your shit together and thinking for yourself and not being a follower makes you an outcast. Up is down. (Yay for thrifty!!! I'm crazy thrifty and I'm always surprised how being thrifty is so underrated by others...as if they're offended by it...or think it's a bad thing. It seems nobody's happy unless they have the bigger, better, shinier object than everybody they know....even if it bankrupts them.) Our society values all the wrong things. :(

Oh...it sounded like you were saying the gov was compelling parents to teach their own kids...instead of sending them to school. I'm all for home schooling by the way. (I work at a public school.)

"(What is the state compelling parents to do??) "

In NJ, it used to be that the State required 16 years of compulsory education. Not sending your child to school was against the law! I doubt if that has changed.