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Public Education is evil because...

Posted by j_IR1776wg 5 years, 10 months ago to Education
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I'll start.

Public Education is evil because it assumes that parents are too stupid or too lazy to educate their children and, therefore, the State must compel them to do so.

Your thoughts?


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  • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
    This is so hardcore. As a military brat with 2 brothers, my father was away quite a bit. Much like a single mother, my mother, with 3 children, had her hands full keeping us fed, out of trouble, and socialized (read exposed to other kids through scouting, sports, etc). She often tells a story about me as a young child. Apparantly, I was using plaid sheets to learn multiplication and area calculations long before I should have been. By the 3rd grade, when included in a rare, advanced, self-learning math program, I reached a 9th grade level. My parents knew early that I would outgrow their ability to teach me anything very quickly.

    I am grateful for my public education with respect to fundamental reading, writing, math, geometry, physics, chemistry, etc.

    That said, when I demanded an explanation of why phosphorus defied the octet rule in AP chemistry, I was sent to the principal's office.

    I had the fortune to be in TAG/GT programs from an early age, and was granted a degree of freedom to use my sponge (a.k.a. brain) on topics of interest.

    While I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions, I cringe to think of what life might have been like for me without it.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      I believe if governments (city, state, and federal) had been prevented from sticking their corrupt fingers into education from the founding, that entrepreneurs would have filled the necessity quite well. Further, parents would have the choice to send their children to religious or secular schools. Under a free capitalistic system, the schools that did not live up to the parent's expectations would have simply gone out of existence.

      You would have your AP classes in a free system.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
      So you think, and trust, that the gov's roll is to educate children? And to feed them too for that matter? (I heard on Rush yesterday that some official is pushing for ALL students to get "free" lunch...to take the burden off the parents. THAT'S where we're headed, Wonk. The gov doing everything for everyone and won't it all be grand and rosey and fair??) Children should be their parent's responsibility...on every level. Nobody else played a part in creating someone elses kids. As it stands now people are paid to have kids with tax breaks and refunds when they haven't (or have barely) paid into the tax system. You can't have it both ways.. And what you said up there was because YOU benefited then gov schools are okay fine with you... I ask "at who's expense?"
      Plus with the world wide web that we have nowadays you can find anything you need to teach/learn in school. I hope someone comes up with private schooling online courses. Also..schools are getting more dangerous...many many reasons to home school.
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      • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
        I stated very clearly that "I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions". Your first two sentences put words in my mouth. Likening me to some nameless target of Rush's in a parenthetical comment based on false premises is silly. 3rd and 4th sentences, I agree in principle, but I don't care for the use of "every" and "nobody". 5th sentence is tragic and highly relevant. I didn't ask for it both ways. Last sentence, first paragraph- my wife and I are incapable of having children. As beneficiaries of public education, we are perfectly happy to pay 60% of our $6K in property taxes to the education of children in our county. Admittedly, I would be much more happy to do it voluntarily.

        So many issues boil down to urban vs. rural. My county (Howard) is close to Baltimore. It has excellent public schools for the most part. My position on the amount of money I'd be prepared to give to education would be completely reversed if I lived within Baltimore. I do not see that as a contradiction whether you opt to blast me for it or not.

        This is a new era. Your points are valid today. I fully agree that "private schooling online courses" are a worthwhile endeavor.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
          Yep...you said what's in quotes up there and then you contradicted it by saying that you're happy to pay taxes for public school. You can't have it both ways...you're waffling (go ahead, pick that apart too...pick aparter). I did NOT put you in Rush's camp or put words in your mouth...I told you what I heard and said that's where were headed. How are YOU benefiting from public schools that you're happily contributing to? HOW? You're sounding a wee bit socialist there, Wonk. (P.s. I don't write my comments with considerations to whether or nor you care for "every" or "nobody". You seem to be the only one that concentrates on these words that I use because I lack exact numbers because they would be impossible to acquire. I just know what I see...every day!
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          • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
            I'm not seeing the contradiction. What does being happy to pay for education (as implied, a time insensitive trade of value for value with respect to my own public education) have to do with whether or not education is beyond the scope of government? What is, is. What was, was. What will be is yet for us to decide. Did I not say that I would be much more happy to pay for education voluntarily?

            Why would you stoop to labeling me socialist? Are you the queen of McCarthyism in the Gulch?

            I'm fairly certain that I'm not the "only" one that notices extremely broad generalizations or extremely narrow differentiations.

            I must admit, you seem like you would be an excellent educator. You wouldn't be my favorite teacher at first, but over the long run, I'd eventually appreciate the challenges you'd present me with.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
              You said "I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions"...and then said you're happy to pay for it. You're happy to fund the gov for something outside of their scope? Why??? Again I ask...how are you benefiting from public schools TODAY? I didn't label you as a socialist, I said you sound a wee bit socialist. Stop putting words and intentions into my mouth. And I'm queen of nothing but myself.
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              • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                Again, I am happy to pay for education. The manner in which I pay for it is irrelevant to my happiness over my contribution. I never said that I was happy to fund the "federal" government for education, and even if I had, happiness is a feeling just as gratitude is a feeling. I maintain that I am grateful for my public education and that I am happy to contribute to education. My feelings are irrelevant to my opinions about the scope of a government's functions. I still fail to see a contradiction.

                My county draws folks who value a good education, and as such, educated folks. I benefit in many ways from having great public schools in my county.

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                • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                  1. you pay for education. Others' education. 2. It does not affect MY happiness if I contribute to a socialist state. Please qualify your second sentence. 3."happiness is a feeling just as gratitude is a feeling"

                  "Happiness is not to be achieved at the command of emotional whims. Happiness is not the satisfaction of whatever irrational wishes you might blindly attempt to indulge. Happiness is a state of non-contradictory joy—a joy without penalty or guilt, a joy that does not clash with any of your values and does not work for your own destruction, not the joy of escaping from your mind, but of using your mind’s fullest power, not the joy of faking reality, but of achieving values that are real, not the joy of a drunkard, but of a producer. Happiness is possible only to a rational man, the man who desires nothing but rational goals, seeks nothing but rational values and finds his joy in nothing but rational actions." Galt's Speech

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                  • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                    On point 2: Whether I pay a good teacher... Whether I pay for structures, books, supplies, etc. Whether I pay for transportation. -or- Whether I spend time educating my neighbor's child, or a friend's child in a topic the neighbor or friend is not familiar with. It is my choice to do these things as it is my choice to live in my county. I am free to move to a different county with lower property taxes and poor public schools. I will be free to move to a county where alternative means of education are implemented and no portion of my property tax goes to education, in which case, I would not cease to value education any more than I would cease to be delighted to see educated children and young adults out and about.

                    On point 1: Yes, most of us do in some form or other. I find it to be in my rational self interest for the time being.

                    On point 3: There's no need to throw the book at me. What are you trying to say, exactly?
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                    • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                      oh, this is for me. I'm coming to it from the bottom of the thread. on point 1. you pay for education whether you are "happy" doing so or not. just because it is in your rational best interest to do so does not mean "happy." you needed to articulate that in the first comment.
                      Point 2. manner in which I pay for it divided by my contribution does not equal happiness but something else. your happiness is irrelevant somehow to your contribution. Contribution is a freely given. Therefore contribution is tied to happiness. In this last statement you are making future decisions. that is not consistent with the comment before, and so new information.
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                      • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                        I did quite a bit of backpedaling and rationalization above and beyond what you've pointed out here. This, has, in fact, been a learning experience for me.

                        It began with the comments: "So you think, and trust, that the gov's roll is to educate children? And to feed them too for that matter?"

                        I said no such things.

                        My original points were:
                        1. This is so hardcore (a difficult issue)
                        2. I am grateful for my public education
                        3. I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a [federal] government's functions - my error was leaving out the word "federal"

                        The later point:
                        4. As beneficiaries of public education, we are perfectly happy to pay 60% of our $6K in property taxes to the education of children in our county. Admittedly, I would be much more happy to do it voluntarily. - again my error was failing to distinguish my county from the federal government.

                        I botched my attempt to point out that it is not a contradiction to be happy to pay county property taxes for public education within my county but not happy about the involvement of the federal government in education. I say "botched" because I again left out the distinction between federal and county, and further introduced the idea that I derived some satisfaction from paying county property tax as a "time insensitive trade of value for value with respect to my own public education" - clearly irrelevant rationalization that left a bit of blood in the water - maybe that was the beginning of the feeding frenzy.

                        The point I failed to make is:
                        5. I am proud to live in a county that values education as I do, and choose to remain in this county partly because of its great public schools. Yes, by living in this county, I am forced to pay higher property taxes to support those schools. Just because I am forced to do so does not mean that I do not choose to do so or that I cannot be happy about that choice. I could move out of the county if I wasn't happy with it.

                        My contribution is freely given, I am happy about it, and I am proud to live in a county that values education as I do. Is there anything wrong with this? Is it articulated clearly enough this time?

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                        • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                          You value public education that does it's damnedest to churn out little socialist minions who think they SHOULD be robbed, and are happy of the theft of their earned money to pay for public school because the gracious gods of gov gave YOU a public education. (gov= fed, state, county or whatever other entity might be stealing your money.) I GOT IT! Thanks for clarifying...or revealing the truth and basis of your thought process. p.s. I think you just made my case. I'll give you a point for that. :)
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                          • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                            So you want to shut down all public schools today while there are few alternatives in place and just let things sort themselves out? Please don't move to my county. I'd prefer to see more viable alternatives in place before shutting down public schools. Until those alternatives are in place, I will suffer your insults and continue to happily pay the portion of my property taxes that goes to education regardless of whether the product is these "evil socialist minions" to which you refer. When those alternatives are in place, if the portion of my property taxes going to education remains high, I'll join you camp.
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                            • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                              vouchers would be a good place to start. You would see more charter schools popping up then. My kids went to an excellently rated public high school. They did well. Problem is, it was exhausting trying to de-program them from all of the socialism. We post worksheets and lesson plans in here regularly with outrageous assertions and children want to perform well for their teachers. and THEN they go to college. Do you know if your district has adopted Common Core? it's fairly new, and may undermine the quality of performance your county enjoys in their schools soon.
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                            • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                              Some diseases need to be cut out immediately and totally. Socialism and it's little red schoolhouse is one such disease.
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                              • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                                are you referring to Scholastic?
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                                • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                                  You seem to think that the present system can be saved by reform. I believe that "free education" must be abolished and replaced by home-schooling and privately-owned schools. This belief stems in large part from my hatred of Marx and Engels. This demand from their CM sums it up well for me. "Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c." This is what led to the ideas of John Dewey, NEA, and Common Core.
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                                  • khalling replied 5 years, 10 months ago
                            • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                              Did I say I wanted to shut down the whole system cold turkey? No. However what is happening right now is moving things further and further into global socialist schools. Schools used to be run my neighborhoods/churches/parents....then run by the States, now they're run by the Fed...who coerce with funding (we could get into the free lunch program and funding for this by the fed is used as a manipulating money tool, but I won't go there.) Now, not only is the fed running the socialist school show, the UN has gotten in also with common core, which is being adopted by almost all States (48 I think), again via the promise of additional or removal of funds from the Fed. Do you really want the U effing N running your beloved public schools with YOUR money?? If the choice was to pull the plug on public schools and have parents teach their own kids or find a private school tomorrow, OR keep them as they are now for forever...I'd pull the plug. I say let's have a 5 year plan... give private schools time to establish, give parents time to research (choke), and ween the fed OFF and STOP taxing us to death. Want to talk about the tax problem now?
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                              • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                                I'll get on board with a 5 year plan. Can we resell some of the infrastructure (property, buildings, busses, etc.) to private companies and pay off some debt?

                                Public water, sewer, garbage collection and recycling could be privatized much more quickly if we resold the infrastructure.

                                Aren't we talking about the tax problem?
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                            • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                              what's insulting? this is a solid discussion. Disagreement makes the conversation more interesting.
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                              • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                                "Disagreement makes the conversation more interesting." - yes

                                Being blasted with false accusations right out of the gate is definitely insulting. That's not to say I don't need it or that it's not good for me. I have little to no experience in public debate.

                                Admitting to "backpedaling and rationalization" stings, but it's not nearly as damaging as denial and/or evasion.

                                I hadn't really visualized an industrialized community with no public schools, no public water, no public sewer, no public garbage disposal, no public roads, no public traffic signs, no public stoplights, no public snow removal, no public parks, libraries, museums, fire departments etc. In essence, however, taxpayer funding for all of these things needs to go. How fast does it have to happen? How long will chaos reign before capitalism works its magic and we regain the benefits of industrialization?
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                                • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                                  I think it starts with having the problem on more peoples' radars. I also think once people agree these policies are destructive, they refuse to vote for candidates who support them. Building these huge new schools with bond issues is one way to start. sure, at first school systems will blackmail communities, but school boards change and kids learn whether in a bright shiny building or a bunch of houses in a neighborhood. School boards, representatives senators, all of those voting deals mean understanding politics at least enough so to make informed voting decisions. We can all screw up there-wolves in sheeps' clothing... Just because a certain district is highly ranked (what standard? what curriculum?) doesn't mean it isn't churning out socialist leaning young adults. This post was about schools.For any of us, we have to divide and conquer with the ideas. You have been doing that in here handsomely. we all have blind spots and inconsistencies we should work through
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                          • Posted by Rozar 5 years, 10 months ago
                            Ok public schools don't always pump out socialist minions unless you want to lump me into that category. Yeah the government is pushing its agenda, no doubt about that.

                            I think the good middle ground for you and wonky rests on scholarships from private business. Privatize the schools, and those who can't afford the education can apply for those. I for one and I think communities in general value an educated child, whether we have kids our not. I know I'd donate a few bucks to a charity whose supplying scholarships if they give them out to the right schools. As long as no one is being forced, which I'm sure we all agree on, then we will have a moral educational system. No force to go to school no force to pay for school. Deal?
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                            • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                              There is no middle ground when one side holds all the power. The necessity of education is no greater than the necessity of cars and shoes. Those two industries have thrived in a mostly free market. So would education
                              .
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                            • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                              Retract that first part. I said public schools do their damnedest to pump out socialist minions...and didn't say they were always successful...some students have parents who know who runs the schools and what their agenda is so they're on top of it (us for instance...our kids are not socialist minions and will points out or question things that teachers say in class. And I have called and questioned things also.) Did I mention I work at a school? I'm not making this stuff up to be McCarthy esque, as I've been accused of being. Many things are extremely subtle, but they're there all the same and have an impact on young minds.
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                    • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                      You find it in your rational self interest to pay for others' education? Why? I've asked this 3 times now.
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                      • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                        I prefer to be around people with at least a basic education.

                        In general, I find that the dialog is more stimulating, the potential for self improvement is greater, and communication is easier.
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                        • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
                          I prefer to be around people who have a panda's understanding of good grammar, too, but if wishes were fishes, then women....no, that's not gonna work.

                          take 2: I prefer to be around people who have a panda's understanding of good grammar, [NO, THIS IS NOT A SLAM AT YOUR GRAMMAR SKILLS. OR ANYONE ELSE'S] but I don't get it very often. sigh.
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                        • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                          I work around 'well educated' people all day long...and I can't get a stimulating conversation out of any of them. An education ain't always what it's cracked up to be. (Yep...I said ain't!)
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                          • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                            Agreed! I taught IT in a
                            community cottage.
                            Interesting ideas or
                            converations were verboten:-)
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                            • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                              I was reading The Virtue of Selfishness last night and it was talking about black and white/ right and wrong and how so many people don't want to see things as black and white they want to find a gray area (which doesn't exist). It gets into the phrase, "don't judge lest ye be judged" (or however that goes) so they don't want to judge anything because they don't want to be judged. Why are they afraid of judged OR saying if they think something is right or wrong....and WHY??? (I think it's the 'why' that they avoid. They don't want to explain their opinion...and be judged for it.) In other words... I'm either surrounded by cowards, or by idiots. I find it very concerning and very telling of why this country is where it is.
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                              • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                                I wish I had an easy answer for you LS. My parents used to prattle endlessly about not going out on a limb, about not being the nail that sticks up, etc. So this avoidance of making independent judgments has been around for quite a while, maybe going back to Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge. Let's keep doing what we are doing and hope we are changing some minds.
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                      • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                        just as you do, paying property taxes may be, at this point in time, rationally in his best interest. have you stopped paying yours?
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                        • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
                          Well, if you mean the ones on a house I own, yes - involuntarily. I now pay my landlord's property taxes. And yes, when I lived in my dream house, I did pay them [renting your house from the state?] because it was in my self-interest.
                          I always jump on the "I have no choice...." statements, because there's always a choice. It might be Liberty or Death, but it's a choice!
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                          • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                            I was responding to LS's comments about paying for education. Wonky is paying his property taxes and it may very well be in his best interest to do so right now. you too.
                            hey, you live in Colorado? where bouts? I'm a Springs girl-well was before the galting
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                            • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
                              Yeah, I actually got that when I looked at the whole thread instead of the recent posts part.

                              I USED to live just up the road from there, south of Parker. I am now serving a 2-year "no home loan" sentence in beautiful Reunion, 20 minutes NW of the airport, where the water is so hard you have to cut it with scissors to get a glassful and they're fracking right down the road.
                              I have friends in Colorado Springs - I always thought it would be a comfortable place to live, right ON a primary nuclear target, rather than in Boulder, where you'd have to deal with fallout [the nuclear kind, as well as what your hair does].
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      • -1
        Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 10 months ago
        LS, I gave Wonky another Vote, but that aside, you are correct that the government uses taxes as a cudgel for social policy by giving tax breaks for dependent children. They also let people write off the interest on mortgages to (1) live the American Dream of owning a home and (2) apparently tie them to the land like serfs, because if you look at truly CAPITALIST societies, people rent homes because that lets them MOVE for business. One reason that the Founding Fathers had Poll Taxes was because the merchants did not own taxable land.

        So, it is true that if the government did not give people tax breaks, they might have fewer children. I guess in a few generations we would be a nation of rich Catholics, like Kennedy's Camelot or something...
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  • Posted by freedom_flora 5 years, 10 months ago
    The concept of public education is founded on the principle that government is the best educator of your children. The fact that some of us has benefited from it does not change this, nor the evil that is at the source of this concept. I count myself fortunate that I went to a school where the teachers were fantastic and at a time when intellectual curiosity was considered an asset.
    At the heart of public education, however, is indoctrination. Let’s not forget this. It is most evident in the fact that school children are forced, day after day for 12 years, to begin their day parroting “The Pledge of Allegiance.” They are never told why, nor where this pledge came from. They grow up thinking that saying the Pledge is some kind of holy ritual of patriotism, when, in fact, it is not.
    If you asked your garden-variety American “conservative” if he would welcome his children reciting something that was initiated by a proclaimed socialist, you’d receive an indignant response. And yet, that is exactly what the Pledge is. It has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers nor with the founding of this nation and its ideals; it was an invention of the 1890s and was instilled in our schools primarily as a tool of indoctrination. At the beginning, the salute was made with the right arm uplifted. That was changed to a reverent hand-over-the-heart when the Nazis co-oped the salute.
    When I became aware of the origins of the Pledge in the late 1980s, I lost all respect for this ritual and became an advocate against its use. It is only one form of indoctrination that children receive in school, but it is the most obvious. American history, as it is taught in the schools, is another form of indoctrination. We are taught that the “great” presidents are those who pushed their powers beyond the Constitution, who involved their countrymen in war, and who inserted government into the economic and personal transactions of so-called “free” individuals. Children grow up taking it for granted that there is no area of life in which government doesn’t have authority. They are taught that there is no problem that government can’t solve.
    The purpose of public education is not to teach children how to think independently, but to teach them how to be docile, obedient, and unquestioning citizens of the State. How evil is that?
    Here is a timely link to the Future of Freedom Foundation, and the latest blog of its founder, Jacob Hornsberger: http://fff.org/2013/09/12/the-most-borin...
    Don’t question the underlying evil of an institution just became some people manage to derive some good from it.
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    • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
      I knew it!! there is just something so chilling about watching 10K people standing in a stadium and reciting words at the same time while making the same exact gesture....
      it's un-American
      great post, flora. looking forward to more
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  • Posted by lrm3 5 years, 10 months ago
    You've got to read "The New Abolitionism: Why Education Emancipation is the Moral Imperative of our Time" by C. Bradley Thompson: http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issu...

    "I begin with my conclusion: The 'public' school system is the most immoral and corrupt institution in the United States of America today, and it should be abolished. It should be abolished for the same reason that chattel slavery was ended in the 19th century: Although different in purpose and in magnitude of harm to its victims, public education, like slavery, is a form of involuntary servitude. The primary difference is that public schools force children to serve the interests of the state rather than those of an individual master."
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  • Posted by  $  Temlakos 5 years, 10 months ago
    Public education is evil on these counts:

    1. Education is a service. No one has a "right" to a "service," except for three specific services. These services all have to do with the management of physical force and the protection of such rights as a person does have. And they are:

    Police

    Military

    Courts of law

    Education is NOT one of them.

    2. Government education becomes indoctrination. Any government is at moral hazard, and subject to a temptation to promote values--there's that word again--that the government knows is most condusive to its own power and its ability to do special favors for people.
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  • Posted by Paulford11 5 years, 10 months ago
    Absolutely not. Public education is the only compulsory attempt to fight ignorance and idiocy in this country. If you find that the curriculum or the politics don't jive with your own, then feel free to withdraw your student and send them to an educational institution of your choosing. However, as there will always be parents who are not very worried about doing what is necessary to make their offspring into productive citizens, I will continue to attempt to stamp out ignorance whenever it rears its head in my classroom.

    I will leave you with Ms. Rand's ideas on education.

    “The only purpose of education is to teach a student how to live his life-by developing his mind and equipping him to deal with reality. The training he needs is theoretical, i.e., conceptual. He has to be taught to think, to understand, to integrate, to prove. He has to be taught the essentials of the knowledge discovered in the past-and he has to be equipped to acquire further knowledge by his own effort.”
    Ayn Rand, author of The Fountainhead, Anthem, & Atlas Shrugged
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      Not. I am a retired teacher. John Dewey is the father of modern education and the NEA dutifully follows his teachings. He is the anti-Rand. What follows is the 4th paragraph of his My Pedigogic Creed " I believe that knowledge of social conditions, of the present state of civilization, is necessary in order properly to interpret the child's powers. The child has his own instincts and tendencies, but we do not know what these mean until we can translate them into their social equivalents. We must be able to carry them back into a social past and see them as the inheritance of previous race activities. We must also be able to project them into the future to see what their outcome and end will be. In the illustration just used, it is the ability to see in the child's babblings the promise and potency of a future social intercourse and conversation which enables one to deal in the proper way with that instinct." Do you understand this crap? Please read it and tell me how successful Public Education has been in their "attempt to fight ignorance and idiocy in this country..." Be honest with me, without looking it up, can you name the five rights affirmed in the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights? I'm not dissing individual teachers, We cannot all be philosophers. I'm trying to kill Dewey's ideas.
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    • Posted by  $  johnrobert2 5 years, 10 months ago
      You just deflated your own argument. If you read AR's statement carefully you will see the seeds of your own destruction. It is not in the best interest of a government such as we have now, riddled by progressive and socialistic interest groups, to teach students skills in critical thinking and initiative. Creating automatons who mindlessly follow whatever drivel the intellectual and media elites choose to spout is. While I was publicly educated, I was also taught, in those same environs, to think for myself and to take whatever consequences followed from whatever irrational behavior led me into.
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      • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
        Yes. Me too. We older folks were taught to reason out our opinions for ourselves and to take the consequences of our mistakes. Common Core treats all children as cattle. I wonder if they will have ID tags clipped onto their ears?
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    • Posted by lmsfinally 5 years, 10 months ago
      Yeah, I had that hanging in my classroom too. Good luck to you. I know there are pockets of public education out there still fighting the system and I wish you luck, Paulford1, but I hope you're not being naïve.
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  • Posted by  $  johnrobert2 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually the quote is "Judge and be prepared to be judged." (pg 73 of 'Virtue')
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
      I found it! It's in Rands The New Intellectual. "Guilt and fear are the disintegrators of a man's consciousness or of a society's culture. Today, America's culture is being splintered into disintegration by the three injunctions which permeate our intellectual atmosphere and which are typical of guilt: don't look--don't judge--don't be certain.
      The psycho-epistemological meaning and implementation of these three are: don't integrate--don't evaluate--give up."
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
      Yes that is one quote, but there's another one about not noticing, not judging and not asking or something like that. It might have been Leonard Peikoff's Ominous Parallels actually. I'll have to look for it.
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  • Posted by  $  johnrobert2 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry for the long delay in replying. Had to make a fast trip to San Antonio this AM. Left at 0615 and got back at 1230. As for my comment anent your possible silence in the face of my prior post, I did notice you were speechless to someone else's post (I think KH), so I wondered if my post above might have placed youi in the same situation, and the same for KH. That's all I meant.
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  • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    nope. trying to eat out the heart of the beast. There is no way any candidate for PResident in the next 20 years will abolish DoE. But vouchers? you can get people on both sides to agree to that. The more cards you hold in your hands, the better off you are. IN plain sight, charters are doing great things. My nieces and nephews attend this charter, along with Michelle Malkin's children-
    http://www.cmca12.com/
    The main adviser to the HS and the economics teacher is a former Reagan economic adviser. He also runs the pikes Peak Economics club:
    https://pikespeakeconomicsclub.com/CMS/P...
    in plain sight j, in plain sight
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      I spoke to my daughter about having her and her husband send my 7 month-old grandson to this school when he is of age. They are now around an hour north of the springs, but I have 4-1/4 years to work on it. That is, if I cant collapse the PS system by then:-)

      Could you tell me how you replied to "this thread" ? I've noticed that we run of space when we post many times on a subject.
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      • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
        j, I call that "permalinked." it gets narrower and narrower and then it will move somewhere else. I hate it! well, relatively speaking.
        Consider encouraging them to volunteer some time at the schools (if they can). Meet like minded people with common goals. But also, go to an economic club meeting (babies allowed) held in the high school.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 10 months ago
    Public highways are evil. Public museums are evil. Although most NFL teams are moral, the Green Bay Packers are evil.

    Public education is in a long, long failure mode for many reasons. However, it was begun with all the right intentions. Taxpayers vote to support local schools. They elect the local school board. Local school board elections in the 1830s in Kentucky seem to be first instances of women as property owners being allowed to vote.

    Public education is a reflection of the high value that we place on education. By the 1850s Ohio alone had more colleges and universities than all of Europe. The Morrill Land Grant created the agricultural colleges that today we call Michigan State and Pennsylvania State Universities.

    One of the prime, core motives for public education was the socialization of immigrants to American values.

    Public education, like public roads, and public sewers, and public parks, is not the proper business of government. ...

    But, what if I want to build a private community... (See where this is going?) ... The contract says that you will do this or that with your garbage and your dog's poop and that you will mow your lawn and BTW we have a school... Don't move here if you don't like it, but once you buy in, then the whole package is yours.

    So, the problem is not really public schools, but (1) who controls them and therefore (2) what they teach.

    And I gave Wonky a Thumbs Up. I do not agree with all of it. High school sucked for me, too, but, that said, I learned a lot. I, too, was tracked into the Academically Talented cohort -- but I had to goto summer school get into AP because I was not tracked into that.

    Could I have learned more by some other method, some miracle of the free market? Quite likely. And if we had not fought two world wars, we could have been on the Moon by 1950. And a lot of things would be different if they were different.
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    • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
      ummm, I take issue with paragraph 7 -
      by definition, a public school is financed by the public [that's the government] which means its curriculum is skewed.
      Call them "city schools" if you want - if they're financed with taxes, they are tainted from the very beginning.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago

      "One of the prime, core motives for public education was the socialization of immigrants to American values".

      Education in America began primarily to teach religion and practical skills, mostly agriculture since that was America in the 1700's. "Socialization" began with John Dewey's My Pedagogic Creed. written in 1897. I think we all agree that government should be limited to a police force, a military force, and a system of courts.
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  • Posted by  $  johnrobert2 5 years, 10 months ago
    Well said, Shrug. My daughter (a senior this year) doesn't buy into the tripe they hand out in school. She doesn't do drugs (hates them and what they do to her classmates), believes in chastity (in fact, doesn't really care about dating), and to a surprising degree, is thrifty. It's what happens when parents are engaged in their children's lives.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
      Bingo! We were just having a talk last night about how we all hated high school because it seemed like everybody but us was doing drugs of off their rocker in some other way. Like having your shit together and thinking for yourself and not being a follower makes you an outcast. Up is down. (Yay for thrifty!!! I'm crazy thrifty and I'm always surprised how being thrifty is so underrated by others...as if they're offended by it...or think it's a bad thing. It seems nobody's happy unless they have the bigger, better, shinier object than everybody they know....even if it bankrupts them.) Our society values all the wrong things. :(
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      • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
        All, everybody, always, nobody, everybody again, all again... so many fully inclusive or exclusive words.

        Public schools in the vicinity of military bases are quite different from public schools in static areas where very few kids come and go. Until I attended a public school far from a military base, I didn't know what a click was, and I took for granted that most would accept me as a newcomer, and likewise, I would accept most newcomers, without much labeling.

        "Our society values all the wrong things"- judgement, condemnation, victimization? Are you a member (you did claim ownership/inclusion through use of the word "our")? Do you value the wrong things? Does the society really value ALL the wrong things while you are a member?
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
          "Few" "Most" "Most" And It's clique not click, by the way.
          How do you ever get to the meat of a point if you're picking apart the fiber. I don't have exact numbers (neither did you) I'm basing this on my own personal observation (WHICH SHOULD BE OBVIOUS). Also, it should be obvious that I'm excluded from the "our" comment...or maybe I should've gone with "most people in our society...", which would have bothered you too.
          Have a conversation and take the points that are made and stop nitpicking generalizations when they're intended to be generalizations. Yeeek!
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          • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
            "maybe I should've gone with 'most people in our society...', which would have bothered you too"

            No, can't say that would have bothered me. You putting words in my mouth does bother me.

            I do appreciate the correction on the word "click"... It detracts from your point about picking apart the fiber. Clearly we are both capable of having emotional reactions that can cause us to say things better left unsaid.

            Reminds me of a scene from the first of the new Star Trek films where Spock gives in and engages in a thrilling fist fight with a fellow student over an insult.
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            • Posted by  $  johnrobert2 5 years, 10 months ago
              As my daughter says, "You two settle down or I will turn this car around." And she was saying this BEFORE she learned to drive.
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              • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                lol. I just had a friend say this to my husband and me a few weekends ago.
                breaking down the fiber compared to getting to meat of something has me confused. Moral fiber (conservative use)vs. breaking down the fiber(progressive use). getting to the meat of something is going to Pi$$ off lucky, etc.
                clearly, wonky had an ok time in school. but, I'll bet Wonky was not moved up to even 5th grade and had to drum his fingers all day long, every day while everyone else was working at grade level. yes, wonky you were HARMonized with your fellow classmates. in actuality you were used as an aphid for the others-to pull them UP while you were held back. that is the public school way. it happened to me and both of my parents were full time teachers. I was latch key before the term was invented. Why couldn't my mom have taken me to her school every morning? De-segregation. I walked 10 miles uphill both ways as a 3rd grader and sat around other 3rd graders and a teacher tht bored me to death. yes, I almost died. that's when I learned to slllliddddeee. bad habit, that.
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                • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                  Ok you, go on and stir the pot watch. I remain blissfully ignorant of the evil plots to hold me back... Guess I should have been more paranoid growing up. I failed to notice all those evildoers attempting to foil me.

                  College was a different story... I noticed plenty of evildoers there, and yet I still paid good money for it.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                    Why would you have noticed? You were a kid. Easily done. Your parents, however, should've noticed.
                    "College was a different story...I noticed plenty of evildoers there, and yet I still paid good money for it." Another contradiction.
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                • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                  Exactly right! The high kids are used as mini teachers to help the low kids...which does NOTHING for the high kids. Classes are large and with the growing behavioral problems (managing behaviors instead of teaching) the high kids come in real handy. Instead of making it an objective to get the high kids even higher, the focus is on getting the low kids higher because they have to meet the minimum bench marks for teachers to get their bonuses etc. The high kids are already benchmarking, so why bother?
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                • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
                  That was ME drumming my fingers!

                  disclaimer: I have no source handy for the following because all my "teacher books" are packed and won't be unpacked until I can do it without crying.

                  By most measures, "gifted" [read smart] begins at about 135 on the Stanford-Binet. About 2% of the population falls above that 135.
                  ASIDE: Like any test, the further you get away from the middle, the less accurate the test is. The biggie is the Four Sigma - they take the top 2% of that top 2%, and they do their own testing. I understood the questions, but couldn't answer them!

                  So, we have the "smart population" being 2% of the total population.
                  For the population of teenagers who try to or do commit suicide, 50% are smart.

                  My conclusion? Public education is killing off our best and brightest, and it's not by accident.

                  It is assumed by most educational institutions for the general public that the smart kids will get along, so we don't have to worry about them - and they do get used as "mini-teachers". Most of the smart kids I taught learned NOTHING academic during High School. One reported to me "It's tough - I can do no work, and get an A, or do 5 hours of work, learn something, and get the same A. Nobody cares but me."
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                  • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                    "My conclusion? Public education is killing off our best and brightest, and it's not by accident"

                    Brilliant conclusion. The schools are crushing Reason one little mind at a time on purpose..


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                    • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
                      Thanks. We sometimes got them before they were destroyed, and could do some good.

                      You know why programs for smart kids have a higher-than-average proportion of males? Because boys who are bored with the 784th math worksheet make the paper into an airplane and throw it, and get it trouble, and get tested, yada yada. Bored girl, however, turn the paper over and quietly draw a picture of a house. They hide. grrrr.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
    Some parents are too stupid and lazy, but the gov enables them to be so and the gov uses that opportunity to teach kids whatever they see fit. (What is the state compelling parents to do??) The parents don't pay attention (even if they are they don't SEE all the little socialist morsels being indoctrinated).
    Free lunch for ONE example.... what messages does getting a "free" lunch instill into a small mind? (regardless of circumstance). That the school (aka the gov) will make sure all my needs are met. And we wonder why we're looking at the laziest, most demanding, complacent, backwards thinking, stoned generation we've ever seen. Not to mention disgustingly wasteful and unappreciative.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      "(What is the state compelling parents to do??) "

      In NJ, it used to be that the State required 16 years of compulsory education. Not sending your child to school was against the law! I doubt if that has changed.
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      • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
        I only know the Colorado law. Parents are required to send their children to school until they [the child, of course! Why can't we just speak Latin?] are 16. The state defines "school", but it is very broad and does include home-schooling. The Board of Education says they check up on home-schoolers, but it is very lax. This is, BTW, why most private schools here go only through middle school. There are stricter [and expensive] rules for High Schools, what they must teach, etc. and most independent schools can't meet them or are not willing to put their money there.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
        Oh...it sounded like you were saying the gov was compelling parents to teach their own kids...instead of sending them to school. I'm all for home schooling by the way. (I work at a public school.)
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        • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
          I agree. Perfect for me would be 100% of children either home schooled or sent to private schools of the parent's choice.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
            Agreed. Unfortunately public school is seen as free daycare by some. You should see the amount of kids that are picked up late everyday...like school staff has nothing else to do but sit and wait with kids who are waiting for their rides. The parents just think it's okay to be late. Let's face facts...home schooling or choosing a private school would take more thinking than a lot of parents could muster...or even want to do. Their kid's education is somebody elses responsibility (problem)...not theirs.
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            • Posted by  $  winterwind 5 years, 10 months ago
              The way we dealt with after-school care [remember, I worked at a private school for smart kids] was that parents paid for it; at least an hour and a half was "work time" for students; and it ended at 6 PM. If you were late picking up your kid, you owed the day-care person who stayed $1 per minute, payable in cash on the spot. But the parents I knew had already self-selected the school.
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            • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 10 months ago
              They can see it as they want, but renters do pay their landlords' property taxes and homeowners pay directly, so it is not free daycare.

              And it is daycare in particular because as capitalism developed in the 19th century, schooling took kids out of the homes and off the streets so that the parents could work. Also, it reduced the labor force competing for simple jobs.

              All in all, public education served many purposes, which is why people vote for it.

              In some places, it is organized at the state level but mostly, it is a LOCAL government function and is usually INDEPENDENT of the civic government (mayor, council, police...).

              Moreover, the overwhelming success of Catholic schools shows that a demand for cost-effective primary and secondary education does exist. However, never ever ever until just recently was any enterprise motivated to create competitive private schools (except the Catholics, and some other fringe groups). So, you can rant - and we will join you - but the fact is that this is what most people want and are willing to pay for. Public education was not a secret conspiracy by progressives foisted upon us like the Federal Reserve Bank -- unless you think that Miss Crabtree of the Little Rascals was a Bilderberger...

              The future may well bring some other modes of education, of course.
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              • Posted by Wonky 5 years, 10 months ago
                Point for:
                "Public education was not a secret conspiracy..."
                "The future may well bring some other modes of education, of course."

                I did like LS's "private schooling online courses" idea. Not sure how that would work for younger kids. I don't know how important it is for kids to interact with their peers - that could be problematic.
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                • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                  I just was reading somewhere, that younger kids K-6 seemed to better adjusted going into adulthood if they weren't in traditional classroom settings. This study was worldwide and even included children who were raised by a parent with less than low average intelligence. The key to the study was constant contact with a primary parent in those years. I am trying to find it now for something else..maybe it was in here? I worked while my kids were in elementary school, but I was fortunate enough to be an entrepreneur. I spent lots of time in that school. So did lots of parents. We were sort of lucky. But you had to be vigilant! I'll never forget a PTO committee meeting about school grading. Some parents wanted to move to number grading and no red pens used in correcting homework. Luckily the principal understood what it takes to build self esteem and character. but by the time my kids were on their way out, they picked a new principal and the awards and number grades were flying around everywhere. sigh
                  "Public Education was not a conspiracy." I'll tell that to my parents (high school and 5th/6th grade teachers) who were disgusted with curriculum and policy changes in the schools. For them, it was in the last ten years of their teaching. They retired sad about the Dept of Education and the NEA.
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                  • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago

                    "The key to the study was constant contact with a primary parent in those years"
                    I seem to remember a book written by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan (not sure on spelling) in which he showed that children raised in a home by two parents for 18 years, got more education, made more money, formed stable relationships, and committed less crime.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                    Funny....I was teaching a group of kids today and had a thought... I could teach so much more efficiently if I could just do one on one instead managing a group of normally active kids. If you start with numbers, letters, reading books at very early ages then kinder thru 3 would be a breeze. Then my son asked me if I'm going to home school his son if we should get a jump on it and start when he's like 2 or 3. I said, "Wow..I was JUST thinking about that too." The whole "they need to interact with peers" stuff is hog wash. Having play time with a group of friends teaches them all the interaction skills they need and it's easier to address issues that might come up with a small group than a huge group. :)
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                    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                      Spot on LS. "a small group" like maybe family size? Following is the first sentence of Dewey;s Pedagogic Creed " I believe that all education proceeds by the participation of the individual in the social consciousness of the race. " I wonder how many parents know that they are sending their children into this claptrap?
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                      • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                        Not many...and the ones who know don't talk about it. That I've ever heard anyway. Actually the ones that know, I would imagine, usually home school. Heck, the teacher don't see it and they're teaching it. They spend a lot of time keeping the kids "in line" because, let's face it, it's a difficult task to teach 30 kids at once. AH!! which is why they have big classes!!!!!! Another puzzle piece just snapped into place. Kids need one on one to retain a sense of individualism..being part of a herded group kills it. And yes, j_lR, "family size" is exactly right.
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                        • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
                          Glad I could help.
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                          • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
                            dang, I am still trying to find the study. it's fairly recent too. all I know is, oooooo whoa whoa,
                            if my mom had been with me 1st -6, well, I wouldn't have gotten away with sliding. lol actually I really didn't. when I was in 4th grade, she'd give the 6th grade math papers to grade. I remember watching Hawaii 5-O while a whole stack of papers were on a TV tray in front of me. I graded them, watched whomever Dan-O booked, and cracked a new Conan Doyle on the couch next to me. no one sent me to high school to do anything, but I made all kinds of mischief with mercury in my mom's classroom. I'm still alive.
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              • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago

                "All in all, public education served many purposes, which is why people vote for it."

                Did you disagree with AR when she stated that he who initiates physical force is wrong? It applies to governments as well as to individuals. Compullsory Public Education is applied physical force.


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              • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                When was the last time we had a vote for public schools? And take a look around. LOTS of people don't know WHAT they're voting for... other than their emotions.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 5 years, 10 months ago
                Because they don't see it for what it is...and it makes their life "easier"....even though it's helping to ruin our country and freedoms in the process. Renters with kids get tax refunds...so you're argument stinks. Until there's a flat tax, or some system where everyone has skin in the game they won't 'feel' (oh whoa whoa) it. Public school is only one symptom of a larger problem...it ALL needs an overhaul...or WE'RE going to get overhauled.
                And Miss Crabtree IS a Bilderberger. Alex Jones told me so.
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  • Posted by ethangibson4 5 years, 5 months ago
    Well let's logically think about this... Government the most evil and inefficient thing in the universe, and we want it to educate our children?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 5 months ago
      You've just hit the nub of the problem! Not enough of we Americans are thinking logically or even thinking at all. We've been encouraged no to think by that Public Education system. Soon thinking logically will be a crime whose punishment will be the forced attendance at re-education seminars in the Gulag. See you there:-)
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  • Posted by Henry611 5 years, 10 months ago
    Let us call it what it really is. A prison for young minds. They are built like juvinile detention centers, surrounded with camera that watch you from one end of the hallway to the other. They are stripped of all constitutional rights, they have no right to free speech, only to freely listen. They have no right to religion nor liberty nor happiness., Instead children are taught to conform to the ideals of current government, and scorned for innovation and inquiries.

    I heard in an essay kintergarten compared to military boot camp and rightly so. Modern education is creating slaves for the future just as bootcamp creates soldiers.

    They are not educational centers, these schools teach what to think, what to believe, how to perceive the world infront of them, they are machines of mental slavery, making idiots out of the general public.

    Its no secret teachers do not choose what to teach, they are only instructed what to teach and how to teach it. They are roman lecters imposing pain of degradation on the great minds of our children on the behalf of Cesars.

    If the government had to shut down, I think the school should be one of the first to go.
    .
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      I could not agree more. I would like to see the current school system abolished, including the Department of Education, and replaced with home schooling and private non-union schools.
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  • Posted by Sharonall 5 years, 10 months ago
    The Union is a lot to blame, plus Liberal teachers, are led by PC crap! Schools, (due to Government) are only there to teach PC, program young children they must accept homosexuality as normal, and to be tolerant, as they teach deceitful, so-called history and Obama's Agenda. When and why did we ever allow the school system to go to hell in a hand-basket, with Government deciding what our children should learn? No matter what we think, as we are too stupid to be aware or smart enough to do that job.

    As for Wonky, I'd love to know when and where she went to her wonderful, public schools! As for me, I agree with her, for the most part, if she attended in the 50's and early 60's, like I did. But, she didn't mention daily prayers and the Pledge of Allegiance, which was the norm for me. And, not all got trophies, or passing grades, no matter whether they were earned or not.

    Can we not see where this is going? If not, then they are right in that we are stupid! You can write about satan, (refuse to cap the first letter) but not God or Jesus. They can check out any books on witchcraft, astrology, numerology, and satan's bible, but not the Holy Bible! No more Christian songs or Christmas songs, nor any kind of prayers. However, no laws exist to prevent these things, just fears of offending one's civil rights and/or somebody's feelings. It's actually fears of the ACLU, formed in 1928 by Communists! And, we let them get away with it? Yes, because nobody wants to stir up trouble. Well, just keep sticking your heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't involve you. But, rest assured, the day is on the horizon, as your day is coming, and sooner than you think! When that happens, never mind, it will be too late.

    Political Correct crap, will destroy our once great, powerful USA. That used to stand for the United States of America.....Thanks to Obama and the Dem Party, (most of them, not all) we are so not united, but a race war, or any type of war they can create.

    No, I did not vote for Obama, skin clor had nothing to do with it. It's called experience, of which he had none! Also, I didn't like his voting, or lack thereof, nor his past, which is still a real mystery, with all records sealed! But, I do pray for him daily, as he is the President. I still have a real problem with his remark in his book, "The Audacity of Hope, where on page 261, he said, "Should the winds of change shift, I will stand behind the Muslims." Sorry, but that does disturb me. Furthermore, I do not want to be Europenized, keep that across the pond. It isn't working there either, or anywhere for that matter, so why does he insist on that? Not to mention his stance on Israel, who just might end up saving us, befoe all is said and done. I will not go off on the "phony scandals" with the IRS, NSA, Fast & Furious, HIS RED LINE, that was suddenly not his, but I will share my awful anger on BENGHAZI and how his "Apology Tour," where none of them have become our FRIENDS.
    No, America is now so weak our enemies are rejoicing, laughing and our worst enemies are now enboldened and no one fears the mighty power of America. They see us as very weak and by no means a leader. It infuriates me when I recall how we saved most of those Countries in WWI & WWII! Oh, how the mighty has fallen.
    The best way to settle the crisses in the Middle East, Russia, Afganistan, Iraq, Pakistan and N. Korea is to send all of his Advisors, Czars and Cabinet Members over to those Countries. I'm sure within or less than 6 months, they would be so screwed up, they would forget what their intentions were! I have not gotten to our OPEN BORDERS either. Are you aware of the 50 gal containers of water, in numerous places across the border? Or with a red button to push for on a large sign written in 3 different languages, to call for help? Or the Korans & Prayer Logs left behind from the Radical Muslims, Hezbolah & Drug Cartels working together, coming to America? Know this, I spent 20 years in upper management, as City MGR., in Car Rentals w/5 Companies, and other businesses. I hired illegal
    immigrants, Muslims, (good ones) Blacks and all at the same wages as the whites! I was able to get green cards for most, (this was in the 70's & 80's). They were great, honest, hard working employees. I loved them all and they returned that love & respect a hundred fold. So, don't even think about pointing that accusing finger of
    racism to me! But, now days, I believe it should have be legal to enter this Country and no over-staying Visas! 9-11 could have & should have been avoided. I already imagine that today's, horrific shooting at the Navel Shipping Yard in DC, will be another "Work Place Violence," again. Obama cannot say, "terrorist attack." He would be from Ft. Worth, TX. I live in TX. Gov. Perry's push TX. TX is very corrupt with the legal system! I wrote a book, "A Judicial Terror in TX."

    I love they way j_IR1776wg & LetsShrug thinks!
    But, saddly & unfortunately, I fear we are a minorty.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago

      "I love they way j_IR1776wg & LetsShrug thinks! "
      Thank you. I believe we are a vocal and growing minority. We must keep trying to inform our fellow citizens. I just bought your book.

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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 years, 10 months ago
    The system is broken, as government schools start from kindergarten on teaching socialism, anti-capitalism, collectivism and subtle to outright disrespect for parents.
    Early on, personal supplies are put in a group box to be shared, with no thought for personal responsibility for those items.
    Later, they are taught that parents don't understand students like their peers do, and they should make their own decisions without parents (age 8). A former union member once admitted it, and then complained when they later turned against teachers. When asked if they did not turn them against adults, she replied, "But, I did not think they would turn against us (teachers)."
    The NEA published a teachers-only book, "Change Agents Guide" (I have a copy). It taught how to turn around parents' objections to goofy curriculum.
    Students rank 25th in the world, and teacher IQs have now dipped to an average mere 110, on par with the mainstream media. Student IQs fall the longer they are in public schools..Yet, they feel it is fine to tell children their parents know nothing, even though parents' IQs are very often higher. Sadly, too many parents are giving up the child rearing responsibility to lesser intelligence, falling for this propaganda.
    Turned against capitalism and big business, students are taught they should start out making $100,000, or it is beneath them. This is not how economics works. Teachers tell students they "deserve" to make this - based on what?
    Ayers-like Common Core now is schools in most states, and will rewrite history while leading students toward a more Marxist mindset."Rights" are stressed, but few teachers follow it with any mention of "responsibility".
    Bogus global warming and pro-Agenda 21 ideas come by high school.
    Trust government schools - it would be safer to trust Putin.
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  • Posted by  $  arthuroslund 5 years, 10 months ago
    The evil is government indoctrination. Government "education" is not required. Lincoln had only one year of formal education. Most of the schools today (public and private) are full of "Micky Mouse" classes and stupid socialistic teachers.
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  • Posted by  $  arthuroslund 5 years, 10 months ago
    Liberty is in danger of becoming extinct. Socialists began infiltrating the educational systems starting back around the end of the 19th century. They have succeeded magnificently. Students are now indoctrinated with the Socialist philosophy at every level of public and private education.
    To preserve liberty, we must encourage our people to get into the educational systems as teachers, administrators and members of the school boards. I would like to see the Conservative organizations like the Tea Party sponsor scholarships and educational foundations to promote our cause.
    Talk radio and political speeches are not enough.
    Soon, liberty will be found only in history books.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 10 months ago
      "To preserve liberty, we must encourage our people to get into the educational systems as teachers, administrators and members of the school boards" I'd rather see our people including students get out of the educational system and let it collapse. Then let a million private schools flourish with no government and no unions.
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