Rough Men
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -- Winston Churchill
With the hatred of police, and police murders in the news I wonder how Gulchers feel about cops? I knw several and I found them to be exceedingly brave men, and dedicated to their jobs. But they are not usually mild-mannered Clark Kents. These are mostly men willing to confront and stand up to the bad guys, and being nice doesn't usually help. Sometimes they overstep their authority. But the bad cops in terms of those whose records are full of complaints are vastly in the minority. So...my fellow Gulchers, what is your take on the police. Haroes? Miscreants? Something in between?
With the hatred of police, and police murders in the news I wonder how Gulchers feel about cops? I knw several and I found them to be exceedingly brave men, and dedicated to their jobs. But they are not usually mild-mannered Clark Kents. These are mostly men willing to confront and stand up to the bad guys, and being nice doesn't usually help. Sometimes they overstep their authority. But the bad cops in terms of those whose records are full of complaints are vastly in the minority. So...my fellow Gulchers, what is your take on the police. Haroes? Miscreants? Something in between?
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I have never called a cop sir. I always refer to them as officer, or detective, or agent as the case may be. Trust me, none of them are knights.
I think you see the glass half empty, and I see it half full, which means we agree on the facts.
Don't be scared of solving that problem with freedom
What scares you about a free market police system. ?
You would not want the power as an individual to choose the type of police service you buy?
To be able to fire one if you deem it incompetent?
To not buy it at all if you feel safe without it?
Unbridled freedom is a redundant term.
Because there is no such thing as bridled freedom any more than there is a free slave.
Look at the chances the average person will die of violence or die young from disease. We expanded rights to women less than 100 years ago and not fully to people with dark sink 50 years ago. We respect children's right to live and grow; parents can't choose to send them to something dangerous or withhold basic medicine. We banned things like chemical weapons, and actually stuck to it, even though the weapons aren't much worse than other forms of violence. The economy allows the average person to get a job that provides a lifestyle unimaginable 200 years ago and with opportunities for education to improve further.
Maybe more important than all that, if you say to the average American "he did things his own way without regard to tradition" people's first thought is "good for him."
I know we have a third of our economy turned over to gov't, and we have this massive prison system jailing or monitoring a staggering portion of the population, mostly for non-violent offenses. So things are not perfect. But I think we nailed so many other problems and made things that would have seemed beyond imagination, it seems like we can solve the excessive gov't problem.
This is not just me saying ra-ra USA. I really don't see how bad things are. I remember thinking this while standing in President Lincoln's home. When he started doing well at the law office, he expanded the home. He had a pipe put in that routed the heat from the fireplace downstairs past the upstairs bedrooms too keep it above freezing on cold winter nights. He had a fancy two-seater outhouse a good walk from the home. That was a luxury to keep the smells farther from the home, but in meant on winter nights they would use the bed pan. At the time when he had these luxuries put in, in half the country they had out-and-out slavery, not just the gov't taking half your earnings but people whose human rights were completely ignored.
Even one person senselessly murdered, raped, robbed, or wrongfully jailed is horrible. But it seems on the balance all of that is in rapid decline. We can say America is great without ignoring that it could get a whole lot better.
I also have difficulties interpreting Michael. I get him most of the time and when I actually agree with him he doesn't think I do. I think we'd do better in a face to face but he's on the wrong ocean and I no longer travel.
Sorry, takes me time to see the responses. This is a good site with lot of good discussion.
The solution- -Let the market take care of it.
Of course once I say this, people expect details of how this would work. Like any market function, I cant predict exactly how the market would respond. I can guess and give examples of what may happen to help see the possibilities of market answers to security. But just as if you asked me what will the communications market be in 5 years, I cant predict the answer with any certainty, but that certainly does not mean we wont have a communication market in 5 years. Maybe a new invention where we talk to each by just thinking will be possible, who knows.
I will give a possibility: but first you must ask the question of what is it the Americans actually want from a police service?
You likely only want personal security when needed. You want someone to call when you are in trouble or danger.
How would the market respond to this want and need? perhaps competing private police departments? You pay a monthly fee. If you pay, you can call 911 and someone will respond and help. If you don't want to pay. call 911 and no one answers. Its a business like any other because its a service like any other. there is nothing so special about this service that makes it your RIGHT. You want the service, its your right to pay for it. No need to have a bunch of looters getting it for free.
Now if this were the case, they would compete for your business. They would call you sir (as they should since you are the customer). they would innovate and find ways to make you safer for less money.
What they would not do is arrest innocent people of victimless crimes. There would be no such thing as a speeding ticket (yes yes, I know were all so stupid this means well all drive so dangerous and smack into each other). If any police agency got out of control or abused its power, people would just fire them and hire another. They would not have power over us, we would have power over them as customers.
Today you are their customer and they talk down to you. expect you to call them sir.
No free market service has ever expected me to call them sir.
Todays police do nothing but commit crimes by any objective standard. the problem is people cant see theft as theft. They cant see arresting someone using drugs as aggression, even though it is. it is the brainwashing that cant be lifted.
When all of us that are not a police officer see a cop car behind us, the first emotion is fear. You are their customer, yet we fear them. Maybe just fear of a fine (which is theft) but still fear.
In a free market police system this would never be the case. You would see your paid servant of security and feel relief.
Most economist that speculate on a free market system feel that police service would become an insurance system in a real free market.
You pay to insure your body and property and they are responsible to insure it, and within this system police would be built in by the insurance companies.
But no one can know for sure how the market would respond until freedom is allowed and the monopoly by force is removed.
You scare the crap out of me.
You are an advocate of unbridled freedom. Not for the current human race.
Looking closer, many justified killings by cops were not justified at all. In every "sinful" act from robbery to rape, there was a lack of reportage unless is was too sensational to repress (Jack the Ripper). It had more to do with the morals and mores of the times rather than making the cops seem too goody-goody.
Thanks for your service, Brother.
They see that sort of treatment as a why bother it's easier to keep eating the free meal and chat with the waitress than go answer a call and one thing leads to another. That poinit then was correct but goes further than you might think.
Your only acceptable response is facts or seek help for Mother Gumpitis. I think you been watching too much immaterial street theater on the boob toob. Two weeks of that garbage are enough to drive anyone into a fit of anxiety rage.
Point there is we put people on the streets of the country who are used to solving problems with one pull on that ever present trigger. They are not used to taking a deep breath and saying WT*?
My worst return was was punching out somebody for using the new slanguage that had occured in our absence. "You suck." Well he got to suck throuogh a straw for a day or two. Later on somebody explained it. Too late for the smart ass though.
i wonder if one day somebody will read this sort of thing and say "Hey that was me!?"
Back to your counter question... I was attempting to find out if you had any real background. and perhaps some episode has traumatized.....and I admit a sprinkling sarcasm.
Most people in the military think going to the field is leaving the Pentagon. Most of us at the sharp end of the pointy stick think they aren't really military people at all.
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