No Herb, the point is that many are being trained in these tactics, particularly the younger ones on patrol, emphasizing personal combat and danger rather than de-escalation techniques and personal control. I know personally, the last 4 men to run for Sheriff in this county over the last several years and to a man, they tell stories about the young deputies they hire and those that they've chosen not to hire and most of those stories relate to 'gung-ho' attitudes and their relationships with their guns and asking about getting onto a SWAT team.

The cops of our age (mostly retired) didn't think of themselves as heroes, operators, and always facing combat. And most importantly, they knew what and how important good and respectable manners were, other than the 'few' that we seem to reference today. I was trying to remember the first arrest killing, other than Bonnie and Clyde, that I heard about growing up. Weren't many.

Michael, I think I have made out what you are trying to say, though I am not sure what point you are trying to make...?

My "shouting" was specifically and only at the multitude of laws we have on the books, by the enforcement of which our government so often requires otherwise good men and women to violate the lives and property of their fellows - at home and abroad.

I am also former military, for what it is worth.

Do you take issue with either of the above

I'm sorry, I must be missing something, but what 3 jobs was I turned down for? And how is that related to this thread? Help me out here please...

Is your point that police are universally adopting these tactics?

Perhaps it's your attitude. I bet I have experienced more encounters with police than you, and I have only encountered an attitude like that only once in over 65 years of driving.

Herb; An interesting book that dove-tails with the No Hesitation Targets used by police and the Militarization of community police and gov't agencies stocking up on fully automatic weapons with countless hollow point ammo, is:
Van Horne, Patrick; Riley, Jason. Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps' Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life (p. 25). Black Irish Entertainment LLC. Kindle Edition. Following are some quotes from the 1st couple of chapters. It gets much worse as one goes through the rest. With this level of understanding of the training our police receive, one can begin to see how the relationships between our police and citizens has changed so drastically, from our old 'friends on the police force' to our 'combat police.' Combine these with such things as the 'War on Drugs' as an euphemism for War on Drug Users, and 'War on Terror' as an euphemism for 'War on Dissenters and Disobeyers' and one should see that our problem is not so much with the police, trained and incentivized to act as they do, as it is with the policymakers and politicians wanting a compliant population.

"The Combat Hunter program has proven again and again that it is. Marines and other members of the Armed Forces, law enforcement officers and other security personnel, and even the average person cannot wait for dangerous people to do bad things to them. Nor are contemporary environments of peril confined to foreign lands. The streets of Los Angeles, like the alleys of Kandahar, are complex and chaotic environments in which it is not always easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys. The military, law enforcement, security personnel, and even civilians can use the principles of Combat Hunter to identify the three types of people in any public arena— the “shepherds” (good guys), “sheep” (regular guys), and “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (bad guys)....
We’ve trained numerous people from outside of the military. When law enforcement agents go through our course, especially senior agents, they are consistently amazed that they were never taught these things before. Naturally, most of the senior agents tacitly know this stuff. They have years of practice of observing human behavior and, if pressed, could probably articulate most of this stuff in one way or another. However, these agents also say that what Combat Hunter, especially combat profiling, provides is a lifetime’s worth of experience in a few weeks. It gives Marines and law enforcement agents explicit knowledge that would have taken years to learn on the job. Now that I’ve been trained in the skills, have developed courses, and have trained other people, I believe that anyone who is concerned for their safety and the safety of others would do well to learn what we teach....
No police officer or security guard should have to go on patrol without knowing how to identify a criminal before he commits his crime. No person should have to wait until they see a gun to know that there is threat present....
. Warfighting Laboratory chose three experts to lead the development, expansion, and initial instruction of each of these specialties, the three pillars of Combat Hunter. Ivan Carter, a big-game hunter from Africa, developed the observation portion of Combat Hunter. He recognized the foundation of every hunter is the ability to see his prey. He influenced the development of classes to teach effective observation techniques and how to better use both day and night optics. David Scott Donelan, a former Rhodesian special forces operator, designed the combat tracking portion of Combat Hunter. Combat tracking teaches Marines how to read and understand the physical terrain and identify the physical evidence individuals leave behind as they move through an environment. This skill allows Marines to pursue an armed enemy while gathering information to determine their future actions and intent. Greg Williams, a former law enforcement officer, designed the combat profiling pillar of Combat Hunter. While combat tracking is focused on the physical terrain, profiling teaches Marines how to read the human terrain through an increased understanding of human behavior. This allows Marines to recognize the subtle aspects of human behavior to find the enemy hiding in plain clothes. The integration of these three skills and concepts into military operations, whether in an insurgency or in a full-scale war, creates a more intelligent warrior capable of out thinking and outmaneuvering an enemy who seeks to blend in with his environment."

Although the book is written, centered on Marine Corps training, it is noteworthy that the program was developed by civilians (some with less than heroic experience) and the authors note the extensive training given to civilian police dept's in the US and emphasis is placed on the concept of being Left of Bang., reacting before Bang. It's an eye opener when considered from the perspective of community policing in the US.

This reminds me of a time a few years ago when a man from Poland called the Rush Limbaugh program. He was crying. He made an impassioned plea for the survival of the United States as the only country in the world that could stand up to socialism, communism, and to every two-bit dictator to come along. He begged the American people to not be afraid to fight for freedom and our constitution because without The United States there is no hope. At the end of his call, Rush was so moved that he was speechless and for Rush to be speechless is something that rarely happens. I hope that under all the mismanagement and all that has gone wrong that there is still a spark of the American spirit in all of us.

There are none.
Like Reagan said that we are the last of freedom and if the USA falls, there is no other to take its place.
I love this country passionately. Like Teddy R. said, "There's more to see and nothing better to see than this country." But it has been mismanaged to the point where there are so many things that no longer work or reflect its original intent.

" the country has moved so low by any measurement, that any improvement will still show a country below par."
Compared to much of the world now and most of the history of humankind, IMHO, US is an amazing and wonderful place. If modern US is below par, where/when are the really great places?

It depends on how one defines a crime. Crimes that are legislated into existence and that are not objectively seen to harm person or property are not objectively crimes. They are make believe. But the principle of 'rule of law' requires the laws to be enforced. Many are not until some poor innocent needs be shown a lesson. Traffic violation laws are interesting in that many of them deal with situations where there is no aggregation of others as pedestrians or other vehicles anywhere nearby but the law is considered to be violated and is just a means of relieving a driver or pedestrian of some money.

Always room for improvement. However, the country has moved so low by any measurement, that any improvement will still show a country below par.

I do understand.

Herb I said "There are cops..." I DID NOT say "All Cops..."

"There is no satisfactory answer"
Having fewer laws but consistently enforced would go a long way toward improving the things Ed75 mentions. Govt having its fingers in so many areas makes it easier for the average person to be criminal by accident. Good people develop informal systems to circumnavigate the law, and that leads to what Ed75 is talking about.

I agree there's no answer to get to utopia, but things could improve.

There is no satisfactory answer until humanity matures enough so that every person can govern themselves. Not gonna happen anytime soon.

Praying a lot helped me cope with fear.
That may be scoffed here as mysticism but it is the truth.
Me dino am who I am and I come to the Gulch for other reasons.

Still waiting for a solution.

Doubt if I could hack it. I was unable to pursue my 1st love, so I substituted my 2nd and 3rd ones. Never unemployed, always made a living - sometimes better than other times. I probably married too young and had kids too young but all in all I've lived a fortunate life.

well, in the case of a prostitute, giving up ones earnings to a PIMP is HER choice really. So if she is called a victim, its because of her willingness to be a victim.

yeah. if you hit someone or cause damage, theres a victim. prosecute THAT. but no victim; no crime.

In the case of driving, if the roads were private, the road owner could set the rules for obtaining the right to use those roads. The penalty for not adhering to the rules could be that you lost your ability to use those roads. As to fines, I am not keen on them because of the issue of who gets the money and who assesses the fines. conflict of interest.

Swan:
In the case you cite, the criminal is the pimp.There are always extenuating circumstances. If a husband brutalizes a wife, should you make marriage illegal? I can assure you that happens more often than pimps beating prostitutes. You cannot cover all contingescies when determining what should be a law and what shouldn't be. However, our law books are stuffed full of unneeded laws and not just a few. Literally thousands of them.