A bit surprising..

Because he's NOT in the closet....but too many only see the emperor's new clothes instead of what's really standing there.

Oh.. you spelled THAT right.

That would have been effing awesome!! But everyone knows he's not capable of making that much sense. Or that much truth.

"Son of the gun" -

But all religions and peoples have nasty parts of their past. I have been reading about the slave taking habits of the Romans and the Germanic tribes during the Bronze and Iron Ages. We probably all have slave and slave-holder backgrounds in our lineages. So I am not trying to let anyone off the hook. But people who are trying to paint Muslims evil with a wide brush need to look into history further.

Insofar as the degree of civilization that the Muslim countries had, my sources must be different from yours. I do think that their civilization was head and shoulders above what predominated in Europe. And if their civilization was derivative of and made from the merging of other cultures - this also is a point of commonality amongst all recent peoples.

Robbie had stated that the Muslims had exterminated all other religions. My counter was to point out that Christianity also attempted to do the same (successfully - no Baltic pagans left), had its schism wars (Albigensian Crusade) and really had no right to a moral altitude.

Interesting that you should mention the Indus Valley. Most folk forget about it.

Jan

I was referring to the Presidents IS Plan...

A good point, but if you want to extend the metaphor to include WWII, you would need to have Europe have been settled by the ME and still have those ties as part of its heritage. Then, when a part of the ME attacked another part of the ME, Europe could have been drawn into the Crusades to defend its ancient homeland.

Now, there were migrations from the ME to Europe. (I am reading a fascinating book about the genetics of the settlement of Europe.) If you go back far enough, all of the migrations that came from Africa came through the ME at one point or another - which would mean that you were right. But these ties were ancient (30 - 50K years) and unknown til modern times and they did not play a part in the Crusades.

Still, a very nice rebuttal and a good point to consider: when is aggression against a 'family fight' warranted. Obviously, there are times when it is. Your response made me think of the matter in a different way, and I like that.

Jan

So, in your opinion, the Normandy invasion was an American war of aggression against the peaceful Germans? You better rethink.
Just my opinion.

jlc, you are invoking a more generic and broadly applied definition of the term "crusade", which is incorrect in this context. "Crusade" here is in reference to the military expeditions from Christendom against Muslims of the Middle East in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the "Holy Land". The operative term here is "recover". They were poorly planned and poorly executed counter attacks against the Islamic slaughtering and enslaving that occurred earlier and was pressing into Europe. Oddly, the term "Crusade" is invoked in his context as if to end all argument on the subject and implicate those bad "Christians", while letting Islam off the hook by conveniently omitting their nasty history that led up to the Crusades in the first place. [Side note: I put quotes around the term "Christians" above because, personally, I differentiate between Christendom and Christianity, which may be a subject for future discussion.]

Also, the average Islamic Arabs at the time weren't very literate or sophisticated as given credit for. Christendom and Islam were equally barbaric at the time. Much of what Islam had was sucked out of conquered peoples (as in Egyptians, Jews, or peoples of the Fertile Crescent) or from trading with the peoples of the Indus valley. Very little of the "gold" of the so-called golden age of Islam was Islamic in origin. The fall of the Roman empire left Europe a mess, but not entirely stupid.

Plus 101!

It's getting tedious discussing ad nauseum the subject of slavery. One thing that's never included in the discussion is the fact that blacks were involved in bringing slavery to America and were involved both as slaves and slave holders, so it's time to move on about this. Long before "we hold these truths...," the worldview of Americans was identical to that of the old world, where slavery had been normal for thousands of years. So it was no great leap to introduce it here. It's only the fact that Christianity and the industrial revolution, along with ideas from the rights of man, created the environment for a discussion about slavery that led to its abolition. Just note that slavery was first abolished in England and the US, followed by the rest of the world. It didn't hurt that the British Navy spurred some into action on that front. So, bashing Christianity for slavery, when that religion was the only one that outlawed slavery, and silent on some, like Islam, that are still engaged in slavery, exposes a level of stupidity or willful ignorance that removes the accuser from the realm of civilized discourse.

Exactly...although I think that tactics still works on many... And he knows it. There is nothing at all redeeming about using that play, and even less so from a head if state at a prayer breakfast. What a dirty pig.

He chose not to be even though it could be considered warranted to become violent in retaliation when brutes start nailing you to a cross.

And a terrorist, thinly disguised as a potus.

SPOILER ALERT !
Someone will surely bring up Jesus' encounter with the money changers at the temple.
Don't be deflated, it doesn't meet the definition of "violence", as I know you meant it !
Good point....

"Cheese it...the cops !"

The Bowery Boys (1943)

Being an atheist, as someone has already said “I have no god in this game”. However I don’t recall seeing where “Christ” ever committed violence. The opposite can be said of Mohammed, who committed many atrocities. Since when is Islam to be considered a religion of peace! This President only wants to belittle this great nation, so he says what he says. By his words and actions he is no American.

YAY-AAAY!
As the Three Stooges liked to chant: "Success! Success!"

Yep, Bama be humid down here. Even when its cold.
Recall my gone to God like my mother maternal New Jersey grandmother complain how the cold down here can cut right through your clothes.

Yeah, I was beginning to think you were a guy instead of a girl.
I was becoming fond of a female Robbie I had a couple of dates with back in the mid-70s.
Then she with her whole family moved away.
Bummer!
During that same time I was a small town newspaper reporter. your story above caused me to recall a deaf dude who was was in charge of the printing press.
I was typing a story when the deaf dude and a visiting deaf friend came by and communicated with sign language. While doing that, they would point at me and laugh.
I said in a good humor "Very (expletive) funny!"
After reading my lips, they laughed as they slapped each other on the shoulder and walked away.

Very good points. I am definitely not the person to answer your questions or my own. But I believe these are questions thatour so called leaders should be asking and answering. Another thing that should be considered is these people are there, knowing the dangers they face. They are there willingly. God bless them for wanting to help, but they knew the dangers. I believe war would only be a consideration if they were kidnapping on American soil. Just my opinion.

You mean that they knew that you were destined to become: a dirty screw!

There...are you happy, now? You dirty screw, you. ;-)

Why hasn't any of the media called BHO for what he is: A Closet Muslim! I'm getting really angry about Christian Bashing. I'm almost ready to go Knights Templar on someone's butt! The president should be censured for this remark. What is the matter with the American Public. There should be an outrage over that statement. Does every one have their head in the sand. What wrong with all the Christian Evangelist, they should be screaming out from their pulpits against BHO. This pestilent president has gone to far. The people are just going to let BHO getaway with his incorrect rotted ancient remark. This is why I prefer Vladimir Putin over this president of ours. At least, a lot of Slavic peoples admire Putin! (My ancestors are Kashub which now is part of Poland).