Obama's prayer breakfast with a side of Christian guilt.
Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 2 months ago to Government
Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Obama said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."
Jan
I don’t need any more prove. Obama, or at least, his speech writer is a traitor.
In the excerpts I read, he did precisely the opposite of that. He tried to bring people together and condemn extremism in a way that wouldn't sound self-righteous.
Oh, good grief, why didn’t Obama mentioned how we use to burn witches in Salem? There’s some white-guilt for ya.
He says we "are summoned to push back against those who would distort our religion for their nihilistic ends." He is quick to point out he's not being self-righteous or saying his religion has always bee perfect while being firm in condemning extremists as a "death cult."
He expresses my view perfectly and reaches out to moderates, the vast majority of the world, who want to live in peace.
And I thank you!
Doublespeak and Newspeak...
The European Crusades had to travel from Europe to the ME to fight. In order to fight in the Holy Land Crusades (liberate the Holy Land), crusaders from Central Europe had to travel 2000-3000 miles away from home to try to kill Arabs. I count this as a war of aggression.
The good thing about the Holy Land Crusades is that the culture the crusaders brought back from contact with the literate and sophisticated Arabs effectively put a kibosh on the Middle Ages in Europe and were pivotal in introducing the Renaissance.
Jan
Also, the average Islamic Arabs at the time weren't very literate or sophisticated as given credit for. Christendom and Islam were equally barbaric at the time. Much of what Islam had was sucked out of conquered peoples (as in Egyptians, Jews, or peoples of the Fertile Crescent) or from trading with the peoples of the Indus valley. Very little of the "gold" of the so-called golden age of Islam was Islamic in origin. The fall of the Roman empire left Europe a mess, but not entirely stupid.
But all religions and peoples have nasty parts of their past. I have been reading about the slave taking habits of the Romans and the Germanic tribes during the Bronze and Iron Ages. We probably all have slave and slave-holder backgrounds in our lineages. So I am not trying to let anyone off the hook. But people who are trying to paint Muslims evil with a wide brush need to look into history further.
Insofar as the degree of civilization that the Muslim countries had, my sources must be different from yours. I do think that their civilization was head and shoulders above what predominated in Europe. And if their civilization was derivative of and made from the merging of other cultures - this also is a point of commonality amongst all recent peoples.
Robbie had stated that the Muslims had exterminated all other religions. My counter was to point out that Christianity also attempted to do the same (successfully - no Baltic pagans left), had its schism wars (Albigensian Crusade) and really had no right to a moral altitude.
Interesting that you should mention the Indus Valley. Most folk forget about it.
Jan
"Robbie had stated that the Muslims had exterminated all other religions. My counter was to point out that Christianity also attempted to do the same..." isn't a counter argument, it's a deflection. It's like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and the first thing you do is whine that your sibling does it, too. Obama is employing the same tactic. I've seen it to be quite common. That is, whenever Islam is criticized, bring up the topic of the failings of Christendom and the conversation deflects away from the failings of Islam.
I would suspect many of our sources are similar and some are different. I've seen where Islamic civilization was fawned over and where it was refuted. You have to decide for your self.
I have to go so I'll leave with this: Whenever the people of Christendom discover their root, you get enlightened society, when Muslims discover their root you get ISIS.
Thank you for the interesting discussion.
Jan
Just my opinion.
Now, there were migrations from the ME to Europe. (I am reading a fascinating book about the genetics of the settlement of Europe.) If you go back far enough, all of the migrations that came from Africa came through the ME at one point or another - which would mean that you were right. But these ties were ancient (30 - 50K years) and unknown til modern times and they did not play a part in the Crusades.
Still, a very nice rebuttal and a good point to consider: when is aggression against a 'family fight' warranted. Obviously, there are times when it is. Your response made me think of the matter in a different way, and I like that.
Jan
You nailed the problem...we don't have an "honest man" in the West Wing.
Using the genealogical formula that Muslims use, Obama was born a Muslim. He, out of political necessity, gives lip service to Christianity...but has never attended a Sunday service since taking office.
In my opinion, Obama identifies more with the 4 hijackers that steered their flying bombs into the American heart, than he identifies with any of the 3,000+ innocent victims.
But, that is only my opinion....
Jan
Slavery has existed throughout documented history and no doubt prior to that as well.
It was ended in this country, something that cannot be said in some other countries even now, a century and a half after it was ended here.
this world would still have slavery by 2015.
In fact, I thought we would have the predicted colonies on the Moon and Mars by now.
I now wonder if that will ever come to pass due to endless wars and the now incredible national debt.
That said however, slavery as a socially accepted institution was ended in the US a long time ago.
Americans are no longer permitted to own other humans. An individual's status as involuntary chattel is the primary fact of being a slave.
That said however, slavery as a socially accepted institution was ended in the US a long time ago.
Americans are no longer permitted to own other humans. An individual's status as involuntary chattel is the primary fact of being a slave.
In addition you position is insulting to both current service military and veterans.
The key bit is INVOLUNTARY
If real world economics did, Government and its agencies would have to function far differently than they do. Since they ensure their own funding by sovereign force, they don't worry about economics to any great extent beyond departmental/agency budgeting. And that honored as much in the breach as in the keeping.
Hmmm. The existence of conscientious objectors has to be taken into account. There were no 'conscientious objectors' to slavery.
Jan
I'm getting tired of liberals pretending America is the only country that held slaves. I'm getting tired of the Left calling me a racist when they are the ones who hung people from trees.
Galambos’ definition of freedom used in his Volitional Science courses is “that societal condition that exists when each individual has 100% control of his life and property (& zero control of anyone else’s” & “Slavery—The control of an individual’s property without his permission”.
Jay Snelson’s, in his Human Action Principles Seminar is “FREEDOM exists when the individual’s discretion to choose is NOT confiscated by interventionism” … & “SLAVERY exists when the individual’s discretion to choose is confiscated by interventionism”.
Thoughts?
Anyone else in the Gulch seriously considering that concept?
It is to the credit of the US that we thought the abolition of slavery so important we were willing to fight the most life-expensive war we have ever been in to abolish it.
Jan
(Who notes no war was fought to free women...)
Didn't Obama once say, "I've never met a Muslim that I didn't like" ?
Oh wait...that was Will Rogers.
Kidding aside, this man's insistence upon equating these barbarians with all the other faiths (mostly Christian) is getting annoying.
The way I see it, if I'm wrong and the martial law scenario does unfold, that case of 5.56 will be better than money anyway.
To make it sane, say, 500 rounds of .30-30?
Jan
Let's hope if that type of thing happens the US Military and the People will not tolerate it.
"Declaration of Independence":
"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."
Thomas Jefferson Quote:
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
Obama and his ilk are most certainly MANURE!!!
I was FORCED by my 5th grade teacher to memorize the Preamble to the constitution, and summarize the 1st and second amendments which to this day I have not forgotten and can recite at will.
To write "your god would be" is A-OK with my delicate little tender sensitives, though.
I am dino--
Hear me ROAR!
This was my attempt to tweak LS's nose a bit on her continued use of verbiage that she knows is offensive to some. Just as I wouldn't use the N-word, or kike (funny how the N-word has such a connotation to it that we cannot even use it in reference, but derogatory terms for others is accepted), or slant-eye, or even gringo (also funny how so many non-Hispanics don't understand that is a derogatory term) just out of politeness, it seems that the atheists here (and everywhere, it seems) have no such reluctance to show their impoliteness merely because they don't agree with others. I choose to be polite.
Back in 1973, a brother and I were illegally camping by the Rio Grande River at Big Bend State Park in Texas. (Legal was crap unless you had a camper).
Some Mexican kid I couldn't see in what I up until then perceived to be only desert country across the river yells, "Hi, gringo!"
I simply yelled back "Hi!"
I found the whole thing amusing.
To camp by the Rio Grande today? No way, Jose!
My memory rattles on--
Back in the late 80s I was searching a cell shared by two inmates.
While doing so, I told them that inmates had called me everything but a "dirty screw" like in the old prison movies.
I told them I'd just love it if an inmate would call me that just one time.
They just stared at me. I think they were scared.
That was disappointing. I wasn't trying to trick them into being written up or anything.
I never brought that subject up again.
I was becoming fond of a female Robbie I had a couple of dates with back in the mid-70s.
Then she with her whole family moved away.
Bummer!
During that same time I was a small town newspaper reporter. your story above caused me to recall a deaf dude who was was in charge of the printing press.
I was typing a story when the deaf dude and a visiting deaf friend came by and communicated with sign language. While doing that, they would point at me and laugh.
I said in a good humor "Very (expletive) funny!"
After reading my lips, they laughed as they slapped each other on the shoulder and walked away.
Later I was awakened by what I thought was a park ranger's flashlight.
It was a rising full moon that was so bright I had to cover my face with something to get back to sleep.
Later after that my brother awoke me with a hard shake and whispered, "Something is up there!"
Yeah, now it got scary. Something up atop a sharp rise was clomping around. A couple of small rocks came bouncing down.
Then I saw what looked a pair of devil horns on high. What was that--THING.!!!
Those horns turned out to be long ears when that thing went, "Hee-haw!"
It was a wild burro.
Oh, before the sun went down during that camping adventure, a pair of desert skunks walked through our camp as if my brother and I amounted to absolutely nothing.
They did not look like Alabama "polecat" skunks
but those two critters were definitely skunks.
And they knew it.
There...are you happy, now? You dirty screw, you. ;-)
As the Three Stooges liked to chant: "Success! Success!"
The Bowery Boys (1943)
Recall my gone to God like my mother maternal New Jersey grandmother complain how the cold down here can cut right through your clothes.
He is black, or is he white?
He is Muslim, or is he Christian?
He taught The Constitution, or has he ever read The Constitution?
He is the Leader of the World, or is he the Joke of the World?
By definition, the US has been a Fabian Fascist Democracy for several decades.
Ugly words, but I'm told that a "democracy" is where the subjects vote & the majority rules without limits, "fascist" means that the government allows subjects to own the means of production but the government bureaucrats, usually in partnership with corporations, control it by thousands of regulations & "Fabian" just refers to the method of creating the fascist democracy a little at a time, as was the military tactic of the Roman general.
The parallels twixt the USG & the Fabian Fascist Democracy in pre-war Germany are quite ominous ... and getting ominouser daily, as Uncle Lenny pointed out some time ago.
The crusades were a reaction to Muslim forces attacking in Europe. Notice Mr. President – Europe not the United States; -reaction to invasion not attacking without first being attacked. Your poor comparison shows how shallow you are and void of historic facts. Also notice that we don’t behead, bury alive, stone or burn alive, and mutilate women unlike your Muslim buddies.
Using faults that the United States have had; slavery in particular, to compare to these savages is so shallow as to be near funny. Mr. President, notice that we do not have slavery any longer-not for 150 years. Mr. President notice that Muslims still practice slavery and have been waging war against Christians for at least a thousand years without trying to change. Every day it becomes more apparent that he supports Muslims, not Christians. I don’t know what it takes to be a certified Muslim but his actions are proof enough for me that he is more a Muslim, certainly not a Christian.
If accurate history was taught, they would learn that it was the Republicans that gave them their freedom, and it was Democrats that formed the KKK. Nothing has changed in motives....
Whether debt peonage or some other type.
Just ask Al Sharpton or Jimmy Carter.
Anything about Bush would not count.
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?...
-- j
The black and white seeds are mixed and I do not have an army of myrmidia to separate them out.
Jan
Radicalism in islam is a islamic issue and should be handled by the islamic people. If not, for whatever reason, then the harvest takes all the stalks.
But I can still feel sorry for the other 90% who just want to sell popsickles and t-shirts.
Jan
Muslims were not innocent during the crusades. Even today many of them have not changed and remain stuck in the distant past.
Partial Timeline:
719: Muslims attack Septimania in southern France (so named because it was the base of operations for Rome’s Seventh Legion) and become established in the region known as Languedoc, made famous several hundred years later as the center of the Cathar heresy.
July 09, 721: A Muslim army under the command of Al-Semah and that had crossed the Pyrenees is defeated by the Franks near Toulouse. Al-Semah is killed and his remaining forces, which had previously conquered Narbonne, are forced back across the Pyrenees into Spain.
722: Battle of Covadonga: Pelayo, (690-737) Visigoth noble who had been elected the first King of Asturias (718-737), defeats a Muslim army at Alcama near Covadonga. This is generally regarded as the first real Christian victory over the Muslims in the Reconquista.
724: Hisham becomes the 10th caliph of the Umayyad Dynasty. It is under Hisham that Muslim forces make their deepest incursions into Western Europe before being stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 0732.
724: Under the command of Ambissa, Emir of Andalusia, Muslim forces raid southern France and capture the cities of Carcassone and Nimes.
732: the Battle of Tours
ETC., ETC.
The Crusades were a long overdue retaliation against aggressors. The first crusade didn't start till 1096-1099. They ended in 1291.
Many Christians even then had no idea what was going on, yet today’s Christians should be held collectively responsible for the Crusades and the Spanish inquisition?!?!? Today’s Christians did not live during these times and since then there was the reformation (16th century) which collectively ended these practices. Is the POTUS responsible and apologetic for the African slave traders that sold many of their brethren to the Europeans? This practice is still ongoing in the 21st century…
Whatever you think of religion generally, this is a pathetic attempt to distract, equivocate and preach tolerance to a sect that long ago adopted passivity (turn the other cheek) practices and whose modern adherents need no admonition or instruction on this matter. In this regard, there is no equivalence to today’s Christians and the radical Islamists.
Our POTUS has once again shown his ignorance or an inclination to distort and insult and yet I predict nothing of substance will come of it. He will learn nothing from this or change his perspective. Considering that approx. 70% of Americans consider themselves Christians it seems an astounding political fumble…
Respectfully,
O.A.
He did that because the Pharisees (the ancient Jewish equivalent of centralized and all-powerful government) had turned the high holiday that was supposed to be affordable into a money grabbing opportunity for themselves.
Someone will surely bring up Jesus' encounter with the money changers at the temple.
Don't be deflated, it doesn't meet the definition of "violence", as I know you meant it !
Good point....
The Pharisees thought that Jesus didn't know the law nor would he be aware of what they had done and what they were up to.
those were then, and these are now. -- j
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