Txs for that referral. It really emphasizes the problem.

Here's one that shows bad behavior by police is the norm. It's OK with me if bad things happen to these cops.
http://dcpost.org/florida-law-officer-pl...

Overcriminalization generally has the same effect. Including low level stuff like the practice of funding a city by writing tickets, as in Ferguson. The law needs to be cut back to the point where only aggressors need fear it, before we can expect police departments to adopt ROEs that don't put them at war with the people.

If that were true, the abuses wouldn't still be going on. I submit that more is needed.

Due process does not override self defense, and cops have that right too. But too many laws put them in too many situations that become altercations that become statistics. And we are asked to choose a side.

My biggest fear is that you may be right. But that would mean that our only option to regain (achieve is probably the better word) our freedom is through bloodshed. That bothers me because I will soon be too old to be worth much in any kind of battle so the sooner it happened the better and that means giving up on any other options sooner, rather than later.
But then what? We lose, history is recorded by the winners. We win, what then? I believe it was Ayn Rand that wrote (though I haven't been able to find it again to verify) that the constitution could not have been written at any other time in history. Not prior to nor since then have all the conditions been right to accomplish what the founders did. The opportunity, the geography, but most importantly the philosophy. And that is what doesn't exist now, at least not in great enough numbers. Yet. If we had a war now, and we managed to survive, we would not even be able to rebuild what we have much less the free country that we so desire. There are just not enough people that can agree upon how it should be rebuilt.
But I think we have another option. And we're, in a way, doing it right now. Or we should be. Discussing the ideas, educating ourselves and others in the philosopy that is the root of the freedom that I think most people want (can't say all) but so many don't understand it's cause. This is the movement that must grow in order to save the good ol USA. It's the only way. And if there were enough people with the proper philosophy to rebuild the country after a war then there wouldn't need to be a war in the first place.

The US only got to be as free as it was at the Founding because ordinary people had the army outgunned, much less the police. If we are to be free again, that will have to become true again. Which means we either need to stop police getting this hardware, or get more of it ourselves than they do.

smichael; I fear that you are correct in your worry, and i find it terribly sad.

At what point does a police force become more than a "serve and protect" component of a local community? It seems to me that as police armament begins to include military type firepower, armored vehicles, sophisticated crowd control devices and tactical teams, something has dramatically changed. It's almost as if the police force is being placed in the position of protecting a community from its citizenry, not for its citizens. Why do protective agencies (police, homeland security, TSA, etc) need to stockpile billions of rounds of ammunition? I like to take my guns to the range several times each year but have found it difficult to find ammunition and when available more expensive due to the scarcity of supply.

I'm no proponent of conspiracy theories but the societal changes over the past decade have begun to mirror "Atlas Shrugged" in so many ways that I have begun to have fear for my children and grandchildren. What kind of world are we leaving them? There was a time when each generation could feel that their children would be better off than they were. i worry that this is no longer the case.

So you take 1 or a few examples and condemn the entire police force? I already agreed that those who are excessive have to be dealt with; but place significant restrictions on the cops and see how much crime rises and cops are killed.

Today's example:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/04/...

The evidence appears regularly in Reason, an average of about once a week. If you're not prepared to accept it, FOAD.

But where is the explanation for your harse judgment of them? Absent! "Ceased to be more trustworthy" - nonsense.

No, one doesn't have to assume the killings are justified until proven otherwise. Cops have ceased to be more trustworthy than other people, if they ever were. They must be judged the same as you or I would be if we performed the same actions. No one is entitled to a different standard.

It is the cop who has the duty to assume that people he meets are entitled to be left alone until proven otherwise. This is called Due Process. The cop swore an oath to uphold it. If he thinks he is too important to live by that oath, he should quit and get a job he's willing to do honorably.

Good comment.

I don't care much for Bible commandments from some mystical superbeing from some unidentifiable dimension. I've had to kill to protect myself and I have no problem if I have to do it again.
Stike 3

Yeah where I live it's a minimum of 30 minutes before law enforcement can get to my house. Also the way things are going all law enforcement are going to be able to do is make a report of fear of being prosecuted for hurting a criminal or heaven forbid shoot one.

Sorry, if I mis-read that.

An Objectivist is absolutely responsible for their own choices and actions, and proudly so. But I reject the idea of assigning responsibility to citizens in general to straighten out this problem. I think it's definitely our responsibility to let the world know that we've had enough. But we've been past the point of being able to actually do anything to change the course of this country since 1913, until enough of us are ready to stand up and say a resounding NO.

Any person working for the government in any position has one and only one over-riding responsibility, and that is to protect the natural, individual rights of every citizen they encounter.

I learned to salute way too many years ago, and I'll be damned if I'll ever salute again much less 'serve the party'.

Good idea on the permit. By the time a cop gets to your problem, its all over except writing the report.
I think respect is something that has to be earned. At least in my life, that's been true.

I don't know when Bobbies started being armed. As to punish criminals, the US has more of it's citizens per capita and total in prison than any other nation on earth and is one of the very few that still practices the death penalty, all while the crime rate in every category has been steadily declining since sometime in the 90's.
I'm not sure I get your item #4.
For your PS, arming yourself against a cop is sure to get you killed.