10

Discussions in the Abaco home about going Ex-Pat.

Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 2 months ago to Culture
43 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I am curious if any others here are in a similar phase. Over the years I have enjoyed learning about other countries just to have that knowledge of their pros/cons should I ever need to leave with the fam. Lately, given recent developments beyond our control, my wife and I are actually regularly discussing different places. I have spent some time in Vancouver B.C. for example, but it's too expensive now. Looking south.

Anybody else in this phase? Feel free to share notes, if so. I work with a gentleman from Ecuador and he will probably return there upon retirement (soon). He loves it. I enjoyed a long-running series of podcasts on Chile until they recently ended. Even had a letter I wrote to the host read in his show about a year ago (that was interesting).


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 2 months ago
    My wife and I were discussing this as well a couple of years ago.

    We settled on Wyoming.
    Initially Cheyenne, possibly more remote in the coming years.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by coaldigger 9 years, 2 months ago
    I think about it all the time. I am retired and disappointed in what has happened in the US. I agree with Rand that, in our founding principles, we were the most moral nation ever but we have willfully discarded those principles. I am left with nostalgia but zero respect for our country and it hurts me to have to witness the slide.

    I am too old to think that I can do anything about this mess and would not care about the politics of a foreign land as long as I could maintain a low enough profile not to get their attention. I would be gone but my wife can't stand to leave the kids and grand kids so we wait.

    My choice is Italy not because of their government but in spite of it. Generally, they are so incompetent at governance that everyone ignores them. The people are great, the climate good and the food, scenery and wine magnificent. I like the final scene in Godfather III when an ancient Michael Corleone is sitting out in the sun wrapped in a blanket with his scraggly dog then slumps and falls over. perfect way to go!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 2 months ago
      I'm growing a little tired of the "I am too old to think I can do anything about this mess"... ...sigh. TALK! To your kids, grandkids, ANYone! That's the foundation to build on...when someone hears "I can't believe how much less freedom we have now, it's a shame that we're becoming a socialist country.."...etc those words might not seem to phase them, but some day they will remember them and who said them.. A seed.. plant it! (Because, probably, no one else will.)
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by radical 9 years, 2 months ago
        I agree. everyone can do something. I left for the Gulch in 1983. I was, in 2009, a featured contributor in the editorial page of our local newspaper, the Fresno Bee. In this article I stated that I follow Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams. The paper has a circulation of about 600,000.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
    Type jbrenner homework into the search bar, and read that thread if you are "going Galt". A number of us are seriously discussing this, and have explored a number of options offline. A site still on the radar is your namesake island.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 9 years, 2 months ago
      Really? That is interesting. My wife has been asking about that region, too. We spent a short time there before we got married. My mom was a cruiser, living on her own boat as an ex-pat, and we spent time sailing around there with her. Amazing place.

      Yes. Going Galt, to some degree. I would want to keep working.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
        About eight months ago there was a pretty nice looking 5 acre resort on Abaco that came up for sale at a reasonable price.

        Please tell us about your experiences at Abaco. Some have the perception that it would not be a particularly good place for the Gulch.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 9 years, 2 months ago
          My time there was brief, only about a week. I did, however, rub elbows with some ex-pats there. They all seemed happy as hell. One owned her own boat equipment company that was still operating in the State. Another owned the dockside bar where we ported. The local natives don't seem to have much wealth but seemed like very nice people. They have a different take on family values than Americans (dad makes babies all around the neighborhood). From a technical standpoint, acquiring drinking water can be a challenge, using cisterns. Beautiful place, though. If you can get waterfront and have a doc you are off to a good start. But, there are plenty of Americans hiding away over there... We ported in Marsh Harbour. The occasional hurricane poses a challenge but they seem to be prepared.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
            Abaco is right on the eastern edge of the Bahamas, making it a little vulnerable to hurricanes. Regarding drinking water, I am sure that, if we lived there, I would get a bulk deal on reverse osmosis units. I could build a large version of an RO unit, but this isn't the best use of my time.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
              I'd be willing to apprentice, jb ;^)
              I only visited Abaco once for a few days 30 years ago. I was a very laid-back evironment. Diving was decent there. Priobably safer to choose Honduras Bay Islands or ABC islands for lower hurricane risks. Many Australians have cisterns for water, too.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 2 months ago
    I continue to think about New Hampshire and the Free State Project. Although not ex-pat, the idea of contributing to a state of freedom is tempting in a way.

    Going ex-pat as a single man isn't quite as inviting.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by RonC 9 years, 2 months ago
      We have friends that bought land in Belize. At least they tried. The signed a contract and paid their money. A couple of months later they were informed the developer had decided to re-divide the plots, they still owned property but it was now 20% smaller. The price remained the same!

      This is the problem with foreign purchase. We are the immigrant, illegal or otherwise. And, we fall prey to the local rules and changes.

      An added piece of information: In Belize firearms are permitted. Meaning by permit only, one, no larger than 22LR, with permission of the government. For me, this is not acceptable.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by khalling 9 years, 2 months ago
        I understand about the firearms. owning land in a foreign country is iffy. and I think you're in a stronger position if you can move around. In the end, defending a plot of land will make you vulnerable, not the other way around. just my opinion
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by RonC 9 years, 2 months ago
          My sense of freedom, my personal Gulch, comes from the financial freedom I now enjoy since the collapse of real estate. We took a chance. When the owners and financiers were throwing away properties in 2008-09, we bought. We used as much of our personal cash as we could and then OPM. It's 6 years later and people tell us we were genius or we did it at just the right time. That's easy to say 6 years later. When it's your only nest egg and you wager it on the future value of a property, ... it seemed nervy at the time. Now we have a steady stream of income that does not come from the govt, is not tied to HUD housing, it is ours. Some would say, we didn't build that. True enough, we bought them after they had been thrown away, straightened them out, and made doll houses out of them. That is a freedom I didn't have when I got a paycheck and the employer got the fruits of my labors.

          As long as I have that freedom here I am happy. I know the enemy here. In another country, not so much.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Frank899 9 years, 2 months ago
    I moved my wife and daughter to Santiago de Chile over two years ago without knowing a word of Spanish. My daughter is now fluent and my wife and I are intermediate.

    Santiago is a first world city with healthcare to rival the states. The economy is still going strong with LOADS of opportunities. I’ve started a number of businesses. Laws are strongly respected, especially property rights. Cops cannot be bribed.

    For me, there was no other option. When you discount the entire Northern Hemisphere (due to Fukushima radiation and collapsing economies and sanity), Chile was it. There are many reasons to have chosen Chile in its own right. Check out AllAboutChile.com and Chile.EscapeArtist.com (one of my businesses).

    Red Hot Chile is the name of the internet radio show. The shows are archived on http://overseasradio.com/red-hot-chile-r.... The links don’t seem to be working right now, but should be back soon.

    I have Bahamian friends who also came to Chile to escape The Bahamas, so I’m not sure why someone would want to emigrate there. Europe is toast once the dollar and euro crash. Any other countries, dependent on the dollar, will crash too. Ecuador is one such country (where I’m vacationing now) as they don’t even have their own currency.

    I tried the Free State Project for 1 ½ years. It’s great in theory, but fell far short in practice.

    At one point, there were three libertarian developments in the works in Chile. Freedom Orchard will be resurrected soon, but there’s no news available yet for the public.

    Moving to Chile was one of THE BEST decisions I’ve made. For anyone waiting, or allowing the excuses to delay departure, it may already be too late.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Walt 9 years, 2 months ago
    My wife and I left the country 5-1/2 years ago to the Dominican Republic. Best decision we ever made. Love the country, the people and the health care system. A couple can live here very, very well on 35,000 a year and very well on 25-30,000, especially if you own your home, which property is not taxed. If anyone would like more info, please feel free to email me at ww1maw@aol.com or shak4u@juno.com.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Matcha 9 years, 2 months ago
    I use to have a home in the Bahamas. I still love the Bahamas. It would be a bad choice because of the violence. I would look to South America. Whatever happens to the US will have a lot of impact on the Bahamas. Canada doesn't like free speech so forget them. Went to Ecuador to check it out but it is 3rd world. You might enjoy that and it would be a great. I love Chile. We have been here for 6 months. The southern part of the country is beautiful. Santiago is very modern. You can go to a new country on your on but it's easier with an attorney. If that isn't possible find some xpats that will help you in the country of your choice. They can make it a lot easier.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Susanne 9 years, 2 months ago
    We did, a long time ago, and still have productive property in Italy (36 Acres in Olive, Grape, and Grain)... we talked a couple times about selling it, but realized that if we ever needed an escape valve, it was there. We were stuck there unexpectedly for a month and a half when the Icelandic Volcano went off, and it was then that I realized - Yes, I could live here, and thrive.

    The other thing with Italy, for us - while it is part of the European Socialist Market, it's probably one of the few where you have somewhat of a free hand, and can make money if you work hard and can negotiate their system. As an expat there, it's not easy to start a business, but (and this is important) you are successful to be able to employ Italians in your business, they tend to be somewhere between "We see nothing" to grudging approval and respect. Additionally - they've been considering dumping the Euro for years - they never liked being on it in the first place - and when they go back to the Lira, their economy will improve.

    Also of note - it's probably one of the few EU countries where firearm ownership - while restricted - has a very low bar to cross. Hunting is considered a national right, especially in the rural parts of the country. And the road to Italian Citizenship is a pretty straightforward (if lengthy) process.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 2 months ago
    If I were to go expat it would be to Chile. I have been there a couple of times for business and once for pleasure for a couple of weeks. It has a low tax rate, the most stable economy is S.A. and rule of law means something there. If you want first world surroundings you can live in the Providencia, or Las Condes parts of Santiago. Personally, I would live further out in the country. You would, however, have to be able to accept third world conditions in some parts.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 9 years, 2 months ago
    If you have interest in staying state-side, Texas. And a good opportunity for a Chris Rea plug: http://youtu.be/GMk208Op1Jc.

    I've read about the history of New Zealand... a country that almost went socialist, and pulled back from the edge to a free enterprise society. Sounds good to me, as we are heading beyond the point of no return in that regard...
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
    This thread includes many of the countries that the Atlantis Exploration subcommittee of the Gulch had been exploring as options, most notably Chile, Panama, Mexico, and the Bahamas. We have explored a few others as well.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Tbabe 9 years, 2 months ago
    Hi
    I did it in 2006 when I saw the train coming down the tracks. I now live in Boquete, Panama. Life is good and no hassles. Small village of 20,000 people and about 3,000 expats who are like minded about leaving the States. Anyone interested in learning more can email me.
    Cheers
    Tom Brymer
    tbrymer@brymerpa.com
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 2 months ago
    Ex-Pat as a job move or merely to escape the US? I had an Ex-Pat work assignment in Mexico in the mid '90's. It was a pretty interesting experience. Monterrey was home to many of the drug kingpins, but at that time they kept the violence elsewhere, so living there was pretty decent. Now, they are killing one another left and right, and I don't think that I'd want to live there, nor anywhere along any drug corridor. Also, at the time, you could only own real estate if you were a Mexican citizen (I don't know if this has changed), so you would always be beholden to someone else for your ability to live there. Canada could be OK, but the benefit of the currency difference has evaporated, so not sure if that's a factor or not.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by dadyer 9 years, 2 months ago
    I have been considering it for awhile, also. Check out the report on this web site geared to ex-pats and potential ex-pats: http://internationalliving.com/2015/01/t...
    One of you mentioned Ecuador. It's number 1 on the list. They claim a couple can live comfortably on about $1500 per month! Colombia (who'd a thunk it?), Panama, and Mexico are at 2, 3, & 4. Portugal, Spain, and Malta are the top three in Europe with Thailand in the top ten in Asia. Pretty interesting report, especially the information about available healthcare resources and low costs!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
      Careful there. They exaggerate the advantages and omit or underemphasize the downsides. They have real estate to sell. Cui bono.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by dadyer 9 years, 2 months ago
        I was just providing a source of information for people considering a move. In fairness to the other readers here, and the organization, with which I have no association, it would be helpful if you could provide a couple of examples of exaggeration or underemphasis of any downsides.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
          Personal experience of following up in person on their 'recommendations' after having bought some of their written materials. Panama City, Panama, and Merida, Mexico being the first two that come to mind.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by SFMedic 9 years, 2 months ago
    Lots of expat Americans now live in Panama. Even have one friend who settled in Cambodia because he felt he could live like a king there.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
      Visited Panama City for a week about 10 years ago. The CIty itself was simultaneously attractive and slumlike. The climate is for those who can deal with heat and lots of humidity. Soaking wet within 5 minutes of walking, and it was not raining. Higher altitude rural areas may have better climate, but lack in city conveniences. Good inexpensive dentistry if you need an excuse to visit. My trip was paid for by savings on the dental bill. Some American ex-pats are enjoying living there.
      Panama has had decent economy, boosted somewhat by the canal. Nicaragua has a canal construction plan so that could change Panama's economy. Its at least 5 years in the future (possibly never.)
      BTW, I met Wesley Snipes' tax advisor Eddie Kahn while there, just before he was captured by local police and delivered to US Treasury agents for a special flight back for tax evasion. So if anyone is trying to escape from US tax problems Panama is not the place.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo