This post is about the solar cycles not a reversal of the planets rotation. When you say OldUgly and leave out Carl you are being snide and rude.

What you don't realize is that the possibility is being investigated, everyone ignored it before but for some reason it's on the agenda.
I was trying to look for the announcement that caught our eye a while back of something from the sun that had enough power to make that happen. All I remember was an equation that suggested that the earth would slow it's rotation by 40mph per minute.

Whether the earth will reverse rotate or not hasn't much barring because just the magnetic reversal alone will be devastating enough.

What we really need is transparency in the actual dating of prior events. The time frames are all over the place.

But, here again, this is not what my post was all about.

Thanks, Carl! It sounds very interesting.

A solar cycle is 11 years, a pole reversal occurs and we get an 11 year max sunspot cycle and then an 11 year minimum cycle. A major sunspot flair, a filament flair or a strong coronal hole may occur during either cycle but most likely we will have these events during a maximum cycle.
The concern here is that our magnetic shields are weak, 25% down and even a weak disturbance will wreck havoc with our digital and electrical infrastructures. Also we will be watching to see signs of the impending Grand Solar Minimum that would last 30 years or more; which would mean much colder weather overall, more earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and more Icebergs.
See: Dalton Minimum (30 year) (200 y cycle) and Maunder Minimum (80 years) (400 y cycle)

nickursis I have looked at the 2 papers and wiki that you have referred to earlier.
As well I have looked at the 2 pdf papers on arxiv on geomagnetic reversal that Old... referred to.

They look adequately written, propositions backed up by analysis from evidence. The mathematics is beyond my patience to check carefully. The topic is sunspot activity, records and measurement, and why and how it happens.
The ideas cover: that the sun rotates, there are internal masses with different rotation, masses may be what we could call ferrous probably gaseous also with magnetic properties which causes other solar effects such as radiation. There is mention of 'dynamo models' but I think there is poor or no resemblance to internal electrical generation.
The radiation has relevance to climate on earth.
I found no reference to rotation of planet earth in those papers.
Nothing there that would be outside mainstream science.
Nothing anyone on the Gulch would say was impossible or far fetched.

Your argument about a rotating ferrous core-
Yes, earth (probably) has an magnetic rotating core, it rotates on a different axis and at a different rotating speed to that of the planet, the axis also wobbles.
This proposition provides an explanation of things we know such as earth's magnetism.
That is, there is a magnetic field which moves matching the movement of the rotating core. The field does not rotate but moves.
The magnetic poles are not fixed physical locations, the apparent locations on the earth's surface are an outcome of the field, if the field moves, so do the poles. (Like a point of light on a screen from a laser pointer that is spinning). What the core does, determines the poles, not the other way round.
The L/R hand rules, electrical generator/motor, can not be applied as there is no conductor carrying an electrical current, just a moving magnetic field, thus no force, no torque to speed up or slow down the rotation of the planet.
There is no external influence of the core. -except from the mass of the earth (gravity) which carries it round the sun in orbit. Its rotation and movement is the sum of cyclical attributes it already has. Those cycles may appear to reverse the magnetic poles, the core would have moved, not been flipped and not even the core would be rotating in reverse. The rotation of the core does not produce the field.

It is fact that applying the magnitude of forces to the earth sufficient to stop/reverse rotation would shatter it, not stop/reverse rotation. (The asteroid belt?) So to say 'no one has been around for one', is correct. If it happened, no survivors, no records, no ancient wisdom passed down (ah! but what about telepathic time traveled communication? ok but it was not planet earth. but with mythical powers anything is possible! Einstein said: 'the universe and human stupidity are infinite, but I'm not sure about the universe').

As to wisdom of the ancients, of course some ancients had wisdom, some of them and some of the writings, and then as now there were ideas and stories told only to produce an effect on the credulous. Stopping the movement of the sun in the sky would be such, or it could be from hallucinogenics, controlled use of special substances to motivate the troops.

Reversed rotation- 'Carl is simply stating research, theory, scientific interpretation allows for the possibility"
I have asked but no research or theory have been given, science as understood does not allow for that possibility.
Carl has conflated magnetic pole reversal with planet spin reversal.

Such passion! I wish I understood what you guys are writing about. But I don't believe the world is going to end in 12 years and I have no idea what a Solar Cycle is. I do have a good friend who is an engineer and he explains things to me.

Rudeness is your smearing an educated response as "personal dogma" while sneering to "hang out with the Liberal Elites and worship Occasionally Uses Cortex, because they operate on the same plane of existence", now followed by taunting about a "degree from Wal Mart" and more confusion of physics with communist politics.

The quote you cribbed from wikipedia is nothing like what you said and does not justify your claim that the earth will change the direction of rotation.

Rejecting your personal attacks and ignorant promotions is not "rigid thinking". Nor does "rational thinking" mean being "open minded" to crude personal attacks and intransigent, emotional outbursts of snarling ignorance. Please consult the guidelines for posting here.

Oh my, did you get a degree at Wal Mart? Send in box tops from cereal? ""Basic electromagnetic theory" is formulated in Maxwell's equations, not the "right hand method". It does not show that if you reverse the flow of current in a magnetic field, there will be a reversal of mechanical motion" of the earth. A magnetic field is not a "flow of current". Your assertions are scientifically ignorant, not rational discussion. You do not even know how to use the terminology in coherent sentences."
Electromagnetic Induction:
"Electromagnetic or magnetic induction is the production of an electromotive force (i.e., voltage) across an electrical conductor in a changing magnetic field."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...

EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.

I am to assume you have a PHd and must teach at a high end liberal college, because you, sir, are very rude. Do you hang out with the local SDS group on campus? You inability to consider others and rigid thinking are not the mark of an open minded, rational thinker.

How ironic that the mindless 'downvote' clowns do the same to this post: Old Ugly opened this thread with "it's time to prepare for outages and disruptions. They are most likely." No they are not "most likely". He is promoting anti-science sensationalism and still appealing to primitive superstition of "the ancients".

You brought it up. Your posts are repeatedly obsessed with cataclysmic disaster in any way you can connect them.

Mysticism is "making stuff up*. "The ancients" are not a source of scientific knowledge and neither are your gurus.

Understanding science through education and a professional career is not "personal dogma". And you do not tell me to "hang out with the Liberal Elites and worship Occasionally Uses Cortex, because they operate on the same plane of existence", which is an ignorant personal smear.

Nor is "This is supposed to be a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason" "EXACTLY [sic] what Carl has been doing". Rational discussion is not arbitrary pronouncements in the name of science by someone who is ignorant of science and attracted to sensationalism and the mysticism of what he calls "the ancients". He is not "simply stating research, theory, scientific interpretation allow[ing] for the possibility". His posts are scientifically illiterate with a stubborn psychology to match.

He has been persistently promoting his BS here for a very long time despite being corrected several times, showing in detail the subjectivist and mystical nonsense in his favorite sources. He has shown no interest in understanding even basic science or Ayn Rand, preferring to parrot his favorite youtube gurus. Crackpots do not deserve perpetual patience. That principle is not "closing the door on discussion, ignoring data, or labeling things as mystical nonsense without making a clear case for why it is so."

There is no "fundamental truth of magnetic pole reversal" causing a reverse in the direction of the earth's rotation.

"Basic electromagnetic theory" is formulated in Maxwell's equations, not the "right hand method". It does not show that if you reverse the flow of current in a magnetic field, there will be a reversal of mechanical motion" of the earth. A magnetic field is not a "flow of current". Your assertions are scientifically ignorant, not rational discussion. You do not even know how to use the terminology in coherent sentences.

Maxwell's equations relate changes in electric fields to changes in magnetic fields. As one consequence they explain how changing magnetic fields can be used in generators to generate electric currents, and how electric currents can generate magnetic forces causing an electric motor to work. It does not mean that every mechanical motion is an electric motor and it is not "magic".

The 'right hand rule', which you do not understand, is a sign convention relating direction along an axis to the direction of rotation about the axis. It is not a physical law causing the rotation of the earth. If the sign convention were reversed the reformulation of physical laws, if done consistently, would still hold. The 'right hand rule' encapsulates the sign conventions in the vector cross products in Maxwell's equations, which do not say that the magnetic polarity of the earth causes its rotation. Magnetic polarity of the earth is not the only source of forces on the earth and not a dominant source of its angular momentum.

Understanding science requires understanding objective concepts and principles, including how and why they were formulated and validated. They are not arbitrary speculations like a religion, rationalizing some observation with floating abstractions or worse. Science is not just another source of authority, to be followed by feelings for whatever sensationalism sounds appealing to certain kinds of psychology. And it is not "personal dogma".

The nature of Maxwell' theory of electromagnetism in particular is not "personal dogma". If you want to understand the basic ideas of electromagnetism you must understand the concepts and why they were formulated as they are, not follow whatever some guru on youtube is peddling that you learn to parrot. Stubborn science illiteracy is not grounds to promote whatever one feels like in the name of "logical, fact based discussion and debate".

If you are serious then read a credible source such as Forbes and Mahon's Faraday, Maxwell, and the Electromagnetic Field: How Two Men Revolutionized Physics. It goes as far as it can without requiring the mathematics employed by Maxwell.

In the meantime, please refrain from lecturing the rest of us on a subject you do not know, and especially refrain from your personal smears and pushing kook promotions in the name of reason and Ayn Rand. It is no better than the mentality of the crackpot CIA and UN black helicopter conspiracy theories and dogmatic religion pushed on this forum.

None of the philosophically oriented lectures on the Ayn Rand Institute website you named support your promotions or the subjectivist mentality behind them. Did you even listen to them? Contrary to your claim, they do not "prove your point". Nor was Ayn Rand's "basis of Atlas Shrugged a goofball who invented a motor that used no fuel or power". You don't understand the novel or its purpose, either. Ayn Rand's philosophy was not whatever else you happen to believe just because you were attracted to some aspect of a novel.

So why did you bring it up? This post was about solar cycle 25...not the work being done to understand polar reversals.

And, hate to tell you, (don't want to ruin your fun) that the ancients could not make up stuff, they could only recount what they experienced the best way the could; and yes, they expressed them in mystical ways...a sure sign of bicameralism....according to Jaynes.

Archeological investigations of primitive societies does not mean adopting their superstitions and mythology. They did "just made stuff up". Primitive societies did not have knowledge and intelligence superior to science.

Investigating solar cycles today does not mean endorsing a reversal of the earth's rotation, let alone believing in the prophesies of "the ancients".

Thanks Nick, I guess scientist aren't allowed to investigate anything that happened in ancient times cause the ancients just made stuff up.

More germane to this post, here are some other predictions for solar cycle 25.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.02107.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.04435.pdf

I guess these guys are hacks too.

Lucky, mainly because no one has been around for one. The links were to establish the fundamental truth of magnetic pole reversal, in response to "No serious scientist is "vetting" an alleged "cause of reverse rotation", which does not happen." Once you prove that a pole reversal is possible, basic electro magnetic theory (aka the right hand method) shows that if you reverse the flow of current in a magnetic field, there will be a reversal of mechanical motion. That is truth, fact.
Now, you are correct there is no proven fact that a pole reversal WILL result in reversed rotation. No one has said it WILL happen. Carl is simply stating research, theory, scientific interpretation allows for the possibility. The results of such a possibility, given the huge energies involved (which you already stated) would be very catastrophic. Rather than dismiss everything as "voodoo" or "gobbledygook" An Rand would endorse logical, fact based discussion and debate (after all her basis of Atlas Shrugged was a goofball who invented a motor that used no fuel or power, yet worked, and created a shield, which we all know is impossible, therefore her book is just science fiction fantasy voodoo gooledygook, right?). To prove my point look at the discussions and lectures available for purchase from aynrand.org (The AynRand Institute):

https://estore.aynrand.org/c/20/science

Charles Darwin: More than "Just a Theorist" (MP3 download)
Global Warming: The Science, Politics and Philosophy (MP3 download) (This one alone shows how science can conquer the manipulative use of data to create a crisis to exploit people with, I posted the scientific paper here that put a stake through the heart of Global warming by proving low cloud cover predominantly controls climate and anthropomorphic climate change is a myth, and that came from the same people ewv labels as "sensationalist nonsense he picks up from his favorite youtube gurus ).
Physicists Lost In Space (MP3 download) (This is another topic those same "sensationalist nonsense he picks up from his favorite youtube gurus" have addressed in exactly the same manner as this guy did in 1999, and based on scientific discoveries in the last 20 years, those same "gurus" have been moving towards a completely different model of the universe and matter.

The point is, we should never close the door on discussion, ignore data, or label things as mystical nonsense without making a clear case for why it is so, besides "This is supposed to be a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason" which is EXACTLY what Carl has been doing. If you are going to just use your personal dogma to determine scientific validity, you need to go hang out with the Liberal Elites and worship Occasionally Uses Cortex, because they operate on the same plane of existence. (That did not mean you, Lucky, you are questioning a position, logically asking the right questions).

There isn't any. Old Ugly has been promoting that nonsense repeatedly here, tying it to his following the mystical prophecies of what he calls "the ancients". It does not belong here.

Using one's brains, i.e., rationality is important. What do you mean by the sneering attack on the "brain only crowd"? It was formulated as a question to give you the benefit of the doubt, which perhaps your post does not deserve in the light of your record here.

nickursis
I've looked at those 3 sites, they deal with reversal of magnetic poles. I do not recall reading any scientific opinion that a magnetic pole reversal can stop/reverse the globe.

You have not "clarified" anything about science. It is gobbledygook. That is why it is "dismissed".

This isn't a matter of rational discussion with someone who happens to not be educated in science. He is stubbornly ignorant, having no interest in learning basic science while persisting in promoting sensationalist nonsense he picks up from his favorite youtube gurus no matter how many times he has been corrected. Crackpots do not deserve perpetual patience.

Whether or not you are interested in putting in the effort to learn and understand basic concepts of physics, Ugly Carl and his gurus are not something to take at face value. This is supposed to be a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason, which Ugly Carl and others here have no interest in or understanding of as they pursue promoting the opposite.

Electro Magnetic polarization is a fundamental property. Pass an electric field through a magnetic device (wound motor) and magic happens: Mechanical Motion.

Here, I will make it easy:
https://www.ducksters.com/science/phy...

The center of the earth is a giant Iron Nickle ball rotating, that is the basis for the earths electro magnetic fields. The field strength varies with all kinds of factors, such as density, plasma density of the solar wind, deflection angles of magnetic currents. Move the poles, and you change the equation. As the web site says, apply the right hand rule. If you tilt your hand (move the poles) the rotational direction changes, and gyroscopic mechanical torque is applied, the Earth wobbles, turn your hand 180 degrees, the rotation reverses. There is a fundamental known fact that can be applied to the Earths core, that says this is indeed possible. Being a more complex system, not understanding the in depth properties of the electric universe, only means we may not be in possession of all the details, which may impact the final model.

Your statement: " His posts are ignorant of science, instead being attracted to sensationalism in global disaster in accordance with his mystical "ancients". His arbitrary, subjective promotions are not "possibilities". " is dismissive, and ignorant of the facts, which I have just clarified for you. You should apologize, as OUC was making a honest attempt to discuss rational possibilities. If you doubt it, go look up Suspicious Observers and listen to some of their material, it is logical and fact based.

No reputable science predicts that the physical rotation of the earth will reverse rotational direction. Change in magnetic polarity between the poles is not a change in rotational direction. Magnetic polarization is not mechanical motion.

Old Ugly is not "simply presenting some of the possibilities for discussion and debate". His posts are ignorant of science, instead being attracted to sensationalism in global disaster in accordance with what he thinks are prophesies of his mystical "ancients". His arbitrary, subjective promotions are not "possibilities" and not science.

Hmm apparently you do not do much investigation of facts and data, let me help:
You should not have an issue with this "crackpot" source:
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...

https://www.livescience.com/18426-ear...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagn...

Of course, this well thought out, mush of nonsense may be more to your vast knowledge of the condition:


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/...

You seem to be a very smart, logical person, whose bias and inability to discuss without judgement any idea, gets in the way of what would otherwise be a useful discussion.

Logically, consider the possibility of a ferrite core, magnetized in a particular way. Now reverse the field on that core. It would indeed be magnetized to rotate in reverse. Since that is directly opposite the current rotation, and a gazillion ergs of energy of inertia is already in motion, Newtons physics say that we would have to release that inertial energy in some way. Since no one has documented a specific instance of this happening, the field is wide open as to the results, but like any release of a large amount of energy, this is probably not going to be a good thing for us. There are several theories of the trigger for this, OUC is simply presenting some of the possibilities for discussion and debate.

That there have been occasional wrong predictions in science is not a justification for your anti-science sensationalism appealing to "the ancients". It is the opposite of science and Ayn Rand. You show no understanding or interest in either. Your lack of knowledge and objectivity does not make your sensationalism "possible".

Do you really need to ask?

Many in the past have claimed something to be impossible and proven wrong...your name will be added to that list one day soon...hope you like crow.