Did not know that. Hopefully the Texas Gulch will encourage an influx of productive individuals from other countries, to replace the moochers as they leave.

The modern day US is technologically advanced, but the rewards for continuing to do so are not nearly as great as they once were.

"the cg propaganda train"
It absurd to think someone's secretly promoting the ills of gov't and society, esp if his method of promoting them is to admit how things have improved.

If I told you things were miserable, hopeless, and I made an ass of myself today in public carrying on about it to strangers, suddenly I'd be doing something to fight the problems?

"I would wager that your opinion of A) is probably going to be the highest that we see."
My answer is in comparison to other human gov't institutions around the world throughout history, not compared to what I think we will achieve in the future.
Also, the answer takes into account things like people's right's being respected without regard to group identity, opportunities to earn an honest living that provides more than basic needs, chance of being victim of a crime, level of violence in all areas of life, presence of a legal system to enforce agreements and laws, access to information, access to means of publishing your ideas, and so on. Modern-day US is amazing. It's just the kind of place from which I expect people will launch Gulches.

That is part of the agreement Texas made when it joined the US in 1845, after having been the Republic of Texas for nine years.

I found out today that there was a discussion before I joined this forum about Galt's Gulch Chile.

http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/2e...

http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/11...

Scott de Sapio posted something about a strike by Chile's copper miners. Nationalization of copper is a serious concern there.

http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/a2...

Chile did nationalize copper!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_nat...

There is also talk about nationalizing WATER there, but it got voted down this year.

http://www.bnamericas.com/news/waterandw...

On the positive side, the cost of living in Chile is about the same as the affordable places in the USA, according to what I found myself online. Santiago, Chile has the highest standard of living and the lowest crime rate in South America, and is not all that far from http://www.galtsgulchchile.com
One could fly into Santiago, and rent a car easily to check out the site.

Abaco started a thread on the Chilean economic situation here:
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/6e...

On a very positive note, things have gone well since they privatized Social Security.

www.thenewamerican.com/.../10521-chile-s... program-is-30-years-old-and-prospering

Chile is a nation to watch. It has improved substantially, but it probably needs to improve its politics before most of us would go there.

I have a friend who will join us in Atlantis who will gladly be your partner and likely is qualified. Even though he is not in our virtual community, he agrees with me on >> 90% and is the heir to a well-diversified medical products company.

"The fact that so many things are FREE is a sign of the end, not of a bright future."
It's the end of the industrial age and the beginning of a post industrial age in which machines do much of the work formerly done by humans.

Though some oppose it, http://www.galtsgulchchile.com at least as farming going for it.

Which is one of my objectives in this and other threads lately.

Stopping the handouts is key, but that requires that we claim the political high ground. That is a tall order given the number of looters and moochers, even in Texas.

If all that is asked of us is what we are dealing with now, then a virtual Gulch like what you want is enough to satisfy most of us, well at least satisfy enough such that we won't take more serious measures. Let us hope that it doesn't get that much worse, but I think that it will before it ever gets better.

JCLanier, your response made my effort all the more worthwhile. All of us share much of what you said in common. As for space colonization, I haven't seriously considered it. I do have a friend from grad school whose dissertation was on how to design space station "habitats". Living on the Space Coast, I have had discussions about space colonization, but I just don't think that it is in the price range of any of us here. I may swear some things "by my life and my love of it", but let us hope that it never gets so desperate as that. I will have tried http://www.galtsgulchchile.com long before I go into space. Space is a lot harsher than most people give it credit for. I ought to know. I teach the rocket scientists how to minimize the likelihood of failures.

I am still here but I left long ago.

It's nice to meet you, Matcha. Does your area still accept expatriates? For example, New Zealand did, but now it has become much more difficult, albeit possible, to immigrate.

This importance of this question is why AR had John Galt interrogated at The State Science Institute.

Hear, hear, Ed. +1

"Well, you may not know this; but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dying." — Charley Waite

Why is it the only state with that option?

I left. I think because I loved my country so much it was easier to leave than stay and watch the decline of freedom. I love where I am but I am willing to leave here if the government gets crazy. We have two locations in our new country. The funny thing is that in one location the entire community left their countries for the same reason. There is only one other American. Spain, Holland, Sweden and Ireland all have people there. I think some people won't mind the change and loss of freedom in America. I just couldn't live
with it. It took a lot of effort to make the move but I have no regrets. Every day here is fun. I didn't want to live in a third world country. You have to be realistic about how you want to live. We rent a small city apartment and manage a beautiful farm.

I would like to thank you jbrenner for bringing this further out into the open.
It was exhilarating. I have read every response and I must say, I often had goose bumps, I felt the kinship of open minds and yet so grave a discourse. The frustration transmitted flowed thick and sticky like honey, but with non of the sweetness.

Sometimes we are so caught up in the subject that we become shortsighted and see the immediate in our current lives and only as far as we can envision living... all appropriate for the question posed.
But, what if...what if we can only live through this from where we are and do so badly? I ask the question how do we preserve our philosophy for after we are gone? It seems that a large number of gulchers are over the 50 mark. We would need a dynamic society to continue to perpetuate these ideals so they too do not perish with us. It is feasible to think it could take years to get into Atlantis and years to get out of it. It will take time to arrive at complete anarchy perpetuated by this insidious yet relentless disease of socialism.

If I really dig down deep into my psyche, I would have to say that we will not be able to hide from the rest of a broken world as did the gulchers in AS. We will be visible and so being, open to attacks of all manner. Just our very existence will be threatening to anyone on the outside, persons, organizations and nations. To have such pure thought, such joy, such absolute freedom all in one place is a prime target.

Now, if someone, and I know this may sound crazy, but if someone had mentioned a spacecraft, self-sustaining environment, capable of searching the galaxies for a new home to start over... yes, I would sign up tomorrow.
This may seem drastic, but I do not believe that this earth, in the long run, is recuperable from socialism in any sense of that word. So, while I would love to have a few years to live with fellow gulchers, I do not believe that we will be allowed for very long, to continue on our own volition under the declaration of an independent state where ever that might be, here in the U.S. or otherwise. We might have a better chance standing our individual ground, fighting for what we believe and spreading the word to those we come in contact with. To have meeting places that we could come together at various times would be manna in the wilderness.

But in my heart of hearts, I would wish for a complete break with all the rulers and governments of this world The fear of the powerful that can turn your life into a nightmare over night. I could live without by renouncing, but I could not live without having had it stolen or destroyed at the whims and fancy of others. There is a big difference.
So, I would choose to leave this planet and create a society by the beliefs that we hold so dear and are willing to give up everything for, even our life. "I swear- by my life and my love of it-...".

Put me down as:
A) 50% possibility to pull through
B) 100% hope that it would happen
C) 50% halfway mark time to clear out

There are worst ways to die. I fear a government that thinks it can take care of people cradle to grave way more than a bullet.

Even if it meant taking a bullet?

I have thought more about this and have to say it would depend on how close the Atlantis rules were to my values. I have said many times that I would give up everything I own to feel the freedom that our founding fathers felt. Even if it meant being broke or not living as long. I just do not enjoy living under a microscope.

Or put the deal together for a group.

A. Hope?
B. Well, okay, that we begin to understand that we don't have to "build" anything to have Atlantis...it will manifest through our intention.
C. There's nowhere else I'd rather be than here now.