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I'm having a moral crisis

Posted by LennoxStudios 5 years, 7 months ago to Ask the Gulch
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I am having a crisis of sorts. I can't be certain of how this will turn people's opinion of me, but if answers come at the expense of reputation so be it. Everywhere I read, everywhere I look, every person I look up to, says Objectivism is greedy, that its wrong, that its an extreme, that the only people who use objectivism is the people who abuse its philosophies as a means of breaking another man's back. And this stress is killing me, this tear. Maybe it makes me not a true woman of reason, I don't care at this point. If it means my hair stops falling out (hyperbole), its worth it. I cannot take this guilt


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  • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
    The “guilt” is an emotional response. Replying with the rational is useless. You have to speak in the language of the conversation. Do point out to the accuser that they are, of course, not greedy in the least, and that they are working for free, right?
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a good answer to guilt. I dont DO guilt. If I know its morally wrong, I dont do it in the first place. If I think at the time its not morally wrong, then I refuse to accept guilt. If I do something I thought was morally right at the time, but realize later that it wasnt morally right, then I either try to undo what I do, or just dont do it again.

    People that want me to feel guilty just want to use that to get things from me they dont deserve
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 7 months ago
    All I have to say is that the charges leveled by the leftists are always more applicable to themselves than their opponents. Collectivists are greedy, wrong, extreme, and use their ideas to break another man's back.

    I have stopped listening to the cries of the leftists. Its all garbage and designed to emotionally manipulate. Its not even worth responding to. Just look at what the people want- and that tells you all. Watch what they do, not what they say
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  • Posted by jpellone 5 years, 7 months ago
    Businesses are in business because they provide a need or a want. Is a company that builds roads providing a need or a want? We all know the answer to that... Sure, they are in business to make money but the money would not be there if there was not a need or want. Greed in itself is a bad word. What would be someones motivation if they could not make money providing that need or want?

    Government intervention is the real problem. As one of the latest examples lets look at Obamacare. What has happened to the price of healthcare since it passed? It has gone up 2 to 3 times the price than before the government stepped in. Is there anything that has happened in America that did not go up when the government stepped in??? If you have an example I would like to know...
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Me dino helps meself by making sure I'm financially squared away before I'll help someone else.
    That always taken into consideration, of course I'll help out someone with a real need.
    But with due diligence and caution.
    There are too many con artists who want to rip me off these days.
    One technique manipulators use is to try to me dino feel bad.
    Paste coins to a donation request? Watch me dino pocket the coins and trash the rest.
    More than once I've kept a calculator. Have five such spurned bribes about the house.
    Nobody plays with me dino's head.
    I also get requests for money to save Trump from the Deep State or from being impeached.
    How is giving some senator or some group money supposed to save Trump from anything?
    Once heard Mark Levin say Trump can't get kicked out of office anyway.
    Slick Willie once got impeached. And so what? No Nixonesque waving from a helicopter for that Teflon Rapist.
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  • Posted by Solver 5 years, 7 months ago
    Without greed we would just save and use what we feel we need, and if there were a harsh winter and everyone in the city starved because in reality they needed more, so be it. At least they were not greedy.
    /s
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  • Posted by upston 5 years, 7 months ago
    Greed is a pejorative as used by the statist, a more accurate concept is " Enlightened self interest"
    the enlightened part is important.
    The other concept that separate us from the mob and other animals is '' Voluntary exchange"
    These two concepts are the building blocks of the civil society.
    And for your sake stop the pity party and get some real friends.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 5 years, 7 months ago
    Guilt, remorse, regret are the emotional responses when you violate your own values. Reconsider what you KNOW, not what you believe
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  • Posted by mia767ca 5 years, 7 months ago
    objectivism is the ONLY philosophy that respects the rights of individuals...it is the only truly BENEVOLENT philosophy...it is the only logical and reasonable philosophy...just the spark of it has helped ignite the first peaceful civilization in the history of the world...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Greed, as used in ancient Greece was Not a bad thing. It was used to describe someone that collected one thing or another.
    Then the French got a hold of the word and applied it to fat people.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm sorry to hear that.
    It makes me think of this Emerson quote from Self-Reliance
    "On my saying, What have I to do with the sacredness of traditions, if I live wholly from within? my friend suggested, — "But these impulses may be from below, not from above." I replied, "They do not seem to me to be such; but if I am the Devil's child, I will live then from the Devil.

    Or as Captain Picard said in the pilot episode of Star Trek: TNG: If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are.

    I think it's better to have "crucial conversation" (that's the weird modern phrase for it) and find out the truth than to avoid it and sweep it under the rug. It's very hard to do. I'm actually very bad at it. I read about it b/c I'd like to get better.
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  • Posted by 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a friend who's pissed off at me, but thats a longgggg story. I imagine discussing it further would put a rift in our friendsdhip larger than the current one
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 7 months ago
    Do they have problems with particular actions you take or just your being into Objectivism? If it's particular actions, e.g. lending them your car, donating to some fundraising drive, etc, you can discuss that particular issue. If they're truly giving you grief about your not doing what they want, you probably won't change them and don't need to be around them. If it's just an issue of their not liking Objectivism, you can just avoid the issue. My suggestion sounds glib because if they philosophically wanted use force on others and make them abandon their dreams, it would show up in their actions eventually. But I doubt that's the case. They probably don't even understand the very basics of Objectivism. They could be as loath to receive alms or manipulate someone as you are. I would just not talk about it with them. More is caught than taught. You don't have to convince them of every idea you have, and they shouldn't have to convince you of everything they think.
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  • Posted by EgoPriest 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I describe it in one of my recent posts (click on my name and select posts. Under the list, you'll see one with title John Galt Brigade: not an "official" group, any more than the Gulch in Atlas.

    If you can take the oath (which really caps off the last few paragraphs of Galt's great speech, or wait until you know more about the philosophy from Ayn Rand's non-fiction).

    As a "deductionist" you may also be interest in the short book Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, 2nd ed. (it covers the one area Galt doesn't go into: concept-formation).

    Another really important essay is "The Objectivist Ethics" in The Virtue of Selfishness which recaps less "dramatically" the Galt Speech.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 5 years, 7 months ago
    Why guilt?
    You earn your money. Its yours. No one is entitled to it. Unless you choose to give it away no one has the right to claim ownership but you. How much you make and how you save or spend your money is solely your discretion.

    Greed is someone else saying what you have is subject to THEIR direction.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi Blair,
    I request, if you have time to submit that concise
    and eloquent reasoning, that proves laissez-faire
    Capitalism is the superior economic policy bar none in the history of mankind.
    Have a great day,
    DOB
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  • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am curious about your second sentence with regard to directives. You were told that it is wrong to believe in the power of the individual ( 1st part of the sentence) That is FALSEj. (2nd part) if people can't find a way to achieve ( my word) then no one should be forced to help them..........TRUE
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  • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 7 months ago
    Objectivism is greedy. Rand said so herself. What you have to understand is that most of the people who claim others are greedy are envious of things they don't have. And envy is just as morally reprehensible as they claim greed to be.

    Oh, and Milton Friedman gave an absolutely BRILLIANT response to the accusation of greed on the Phil Donahue show several decades ago. (https://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A) Worth every minute!
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Great advice Dob...also, LS needs to know that She likely will be rejected on the facts, natures truths and reality because the post modern thinklessing poses that there are no facts, no truth and no reality; those things are just constructs of our civilization. They unknowingly seek a different dimension that most probably doesn't exist.
    So your posed questions to be asked are apt.
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