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Here's how your take-home pay could change if Trump's new tax plan is passed

Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 4 months ago to Economics
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Hmm....I keep wanting to believe that a plain 10% "flat Tax" would be the best way to do this, since the looters ARE going to loot, no matter what. All of this "talk" keeps adding up to just making the smoke a different color and making the mirrors more polished. It still is a game where you have to try to "out loot the looters" using all their weird gambits and tricks. There is still way too much money to be taken by keeping the current system, and all the "donations" it causes to be made, to political campaigns.


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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Death is normally a natural event. Taxes for looting are man-made and not necessary. Statism cannot be fought by conceding statist premises while calling one form of it "Fair" and advocating an allegedly "even burden", which it is not. What good does it do to keep more of your income so that you can't spend it because of another coercive tax? No tax is more "inherently" bad than another. They all distort the economy and violate individual rights in different ways. It won't be stopped in the foreseeable future, but at least argue for correct moral principles and implement them where possible instead of conceding statism with bogus arguments of "Fair" coercion that is claimed to be not inherently bad.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A deduction that lowers income taxes is not "just a gift" to anyone. In this case it was an attempt to manipulate the economy through less punishment of home ownership. Most people agreed that home ownership is generally good and went along with the statist manipulation. It wasn't a conspiracy by those who build or finance homes or by those who impose property taxes..
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ayn Rand did not advocate not working hard. She urged that those who agree with ideas work to become the best they can in their own field and apply her ideas. She recognized that people have always cut back in response to punishment; she did not advocate that as a means to reform the country.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Lower tax rates generally lead to higher government 'revenues', an unfortunate side-effect. At least with an explicit tax cut -- which the current scheme to change taxes to manipulate the economy is not -- you get hold of your money long enough to use it to your own benefit rather than never see it at all, even though the borrowing continues to suck money out of the private economy.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Taxing Social Security in accordance with how much other income you earn was a Clinton initiative in the 1990s.
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  • Posted by editormichael 8 years, 3 months ago
    Strike? Excellent idea!
    As mccannon01 notes, jail is a possibility, and I guess even a probability.
    So what it takes is a LOT of courage, of guts, and a willingness to adapt some of that activism the left-collectivists use: Let them arrest us, in droves, in HUGE numbers. FILL their jails.
    If our tax protest works, they'll hafta lay off some of the jailers, and hafta close some of the jails, and won't have enough armed thugs to haul all of us away.
    I started to say it worked for Gandhi, but it's not quite the same thing.
    However, it did work for the earlier Civil Rights movement in the early 1960s, especially in Southwest Georgia.
    Huelga! Strike!
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  • Posted by Solver 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can't remember who said something like, by adding "social" before any word you destroy the meaning of that word. ?

    Thus, social choice becomes no REAL choice at all.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Never married. Never wanted a contract with the state to dictate my personal relationship. Still don't. I understand your point on asking your wife to change her priorities though. My partners understand that my priority is my liberty and they don't expect me to compromise it for their priorities.
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  • Posted by Ben_C 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed. The Fair tax would replace all federal taxes. Not going to happen as you remarked about the VAT. Now that half of young adults prefer socialism / communism over capitalism I see a dark road ahead for producers. As I remarked to my accountant - "whats the point of busting my ass in my business when local state and federal governments feel entitled to my hard work."
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly! We used to change our withholding for bonuses, and they stopped us from doing it. Grab, grab, grab...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The killer is the infamous "PMI" to make sure that they get their money back, no matter what, and you pay to make sure THEY get it.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would not object, if, and it's a big if, they eliminated all the rest. Look at Europe, they have a VAT, and never got rid of all their other taxes, as politicians NEVER get rid of a tax, fee, license, whatever...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    freedom, it is a hard position to be in, when there is no clear way to remove the burden. 250 years ago they knew if the could defeat the British, they could. Even then, no sooner did they do that, then our own brand of tyranny began to grow. It would take a quantum shift in the whole structure of society to come up with one where you are the result of your own work, and not have everyone else tell you why you need to support them. I am all for it,but it seems a far reach at this point...
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We have actually toyed with that, we need to find a good 20 acres of somewhat flat land, and in Oregon, that is a challenge. You also need some implements, I am hoping I can get something out of the 148K judgement on my neighbors for trying to kill us with alpaca poop.....
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope, but just try getting your wife to give up what she holds dearest. Besides, I have a soft spot for animals too, they are generally a lot better than a lot of people. The choices we make...and have to be responsible for...unlike some others who make choices and then expect others to provide for it.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually I look at it as a social choice for what politicians want to give away to whoever buys them out.Rarely is it to benefit the whole, even Social Security was created for the elderly and has morphed into a free for all. Government grants and programs have been crafted just to give money back to where they have the most money coming into their re-election campaigns from. Very little is spent for the good of the whole.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good luck with that, especially since most people have to pay the tax via payroll deduction and can't protest by not paying. If I recall, a protest was mounted decades ago by workers who modified their W2 forms to gain more deductions in hopes if enough did it, then the government would notice the sudden drop in weekly revenue. The result was new regulations added to the books that made such "protests" illegal and bumped up fines and/or jail time for pulling such a stunt. One result is now, if you look at the tax form, you will see you actually have to guess within a certain percentage of tax you must pay throughout the year or possibly face a fine if you don't get it right.

    The I-R-S is the fourth branch of government and, arguably, is the most powerful and most totalitarian. It rules by pure fear. It can take your wealth, your freedom, and even your life. It is the perfect tool of statists and collectivists to slap around and manipulate a population.

    I recall a book written about I-R-S abuses back in the late '70s or early '80s by a congressman (George Hanson comes to mind) where abuses up to that time are written about. By now, I figure volumes could be added.

    Edit add: Found the book on Amazon... "To Harass Our People: The IRS and Government Abuse of Power" by Congressman George Hanson
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  • Posted by Solver 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Taxation gives us a social choice of all the things we want but have other people pay for. And at that cost, most people want a lot. It is like getting pushed an addictive mind altering drug, and is why so many people will fight to the death to get more of it.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    About the best we can do is cut our expenses, and therefore the need to make money, by maybe 20% without starving ourselves of a decent life.

    10% is usually a no brainer in terms of cutting back on waste. 20% is a stretch for most expenses, but possible.

    The first thing to do is only buy things that will LAST a long time, and buy spare parts for those things before they dont make them anymore.

    Secondly, would be to specifically cut down on the need for driving around.

    Third would be careful procuring of food, so as not to buy too much that will spoil before you eat it.

    As we get older, it gets harder to do physical things for ourselves, but our needs (exc for medical) tend to go down also.

    As to medical, given how much we have paid into taxes over the years, taking as much free medical care now that its government medical care doesnt seem like such a bad idea
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No volunteers to pledge their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor. More likely they will just give up their honor for some false security. They have no fortune left to pledge.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's just what the state wants to hear. Another slave who won't revolt as long as he's not starving, and you can still eat horse flesh when you get desperate. Or will you take the A Boy and His Dog route instead?
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