Most People Today Want to be Propagandized

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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"Intellectually insecure and socially uprooted, many people are now desperate for some authority to cling to, someone who will give simple expression to the inklings of thoughts and instincts to which they can neither give adequate voice nor adequately live out."

"Is it any wonder, then, that so many people would seek out propaganda today, and that its providers would be so happy to oblige?"

Where would you be if it were not for objectivism?
SOURCE URL: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/most-people-today-want-be-propagandized


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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 7 months ago
    I'm an engineer. I hang with many engineers. In general we are all bucking the system of propaganda currently being employed, along with many of the messages being sent in it. Engineering is a lot like Objectivism, I figure.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 7 years, 7 months ago
      Hello, Abaco,
      I am a physical chemist who did, during all of my 44 years in professional life, what you would call development engineering. Long time before I became aware of Objectivism, I read a quote that defined engineering as "the art of things that work". It has remained for ever, in my mind, as a thoroughly true statement.
      The "... that work" part imposes a practicality, an honesty, a sticking to the facts. It is also an art, because, if you wish your product to last, say, 40 years, you are not allowed 40 years of testing to find out what works. Also, you cannot compute the entire design. So you have guess, gamble and take risks. That forces you to use your imagination, express your character and your emotions.. To express your reasoning, your honesty, your control of fear. In short, as Ayn Rand says, express your sense of life. Engineers have to stick to "existence exists" and "A is A". Otherwise, machines fail, and buildings collapse.
      This is a verbose way of saying that you are right. What you say, to me, is a "subset" of the concepts conveyed by the statement: "Objectivism is a lot like experience of life."
      Nice to chat with you. Stay well
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    • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 7 months ago
      yes, it is. . I found objectivism before engineering,
      so my choice of a profession was easy. . the opposite
      would also have been easy, had I found engineering
      first. . Rand, and some science fiction authors, are
      the only folks who seem to understand engineers.
      science plus life equals engineering. . simple! -- j
      .
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 7 months ago
        Funny though, I had/have an engineering friend from my sailing days...he's a flaming liberal! He was good at his job but in real life...I blew him away with my simple solutions to problems we found with our boats and life on the dock.
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 7 months ago
          I've discovered, to my amazement, that there are two kinds of engineers, which I've labeled the "math engineers" and the "physics engineers." The math engineers are obsessed with numbers and formulas, usually very narrowly focused and unquestioning of rules they were taught. The physics engineers base their approach on the principles behind solving problems, tend to be big picture thinkers, and aren't shy about questioning standard approaches or exploring unconventional methods. The math types tend to be very liberal, while the physics types are more objectivist/libertarian/conservative in their perspective.
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          • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 7 months ago
            great comments! . and characters like Galt, who can
            do both, are the most rare ... re-writing the rules and
            using the principles to change the big picture. . even
            though Galt was a fictional character, he was still
            my idol for decades, as a practicing engineer. -- j
            .
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            • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 7 months ago
              As you might guess, I was one of the physics engineers, and was notorious for walking into a group of the math types who'd been tearing their hair for days over a problem and asking them if they'd tried XXXX. When XXXX solved the problem, it frustrated them. When I tried to explain that based on the principles involved, it was the obvious solution, all they wanted to know was how the hell I did the calculations in my head so quickly. After a while I gave up trying to explain.
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              • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 7 months ago
                one key to successful engineering, IMHO, is being able
                to estimate outcomes of calculations -- order of magnitude
                or net improvement / net loss -- without crunching the
                numbers. . experience, yes, but also insight into the
                ways the principles operate. . What Fun!! -- j
                .
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 7 months ago
                I remember getting these problems where you had to hit a certain gain, input impedance, and output impedance using three cheap transistors. I remember thinking there must be an incredibly complicated set of simultaneous equations that would solve this. When discussing the instructor's solution with another student I remember saying "he's just guessing. There's a way to actually do the problem, like really solve it, not just pull numbers out of the air." The other student agreed wholeheartedly. What the instructor did felt like an iterative process. "I should be able to write a program for this; why hasn't anyone?"

                Starting from scratch, making something new using parts that have wide tolerances is just a different way of thinking from science.
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 7 months ago
            Sounds right...+1, not because I identify, but because it makes sense, Math is "Rule" driven to the max. I see both, some math but especially the big picture and have always rejected rules until I understand why it's a rule and if it's useful. Now, maybe some here will stop making fun of my outlook on physics...laughing of course.
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          • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 7 months ago
            Then there are the ones who haven't a political clue.
            I did some work for a refrigeration engineer who did his work with little four function calculator, though it did have a square root function on it, who had done some nuclear plant jobs and did consultant work for some company in Japan. He seemed conservatively directed with an on going bad life feeling because of his parent's Armenian background and their not getting proper recognition as an oppressed group. He did not seem to have any interest in science at all, but was a good curler.
            Science interest and math interest was nearly zero for those whom I did work over 40 years and did not seem to keep them from becoming wealthy from inventing and patenting things nor did education levels. They were, though, good at general problem solving. Seemed like the key to their successes was taking risks at jobs and learning after being hired. Political leanings or math and science leanings did not enter much in their successes, being more interested in country club activities.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 7 months ago
            There is Occams Razor and then there is Edison's Light Bulb any relation? (Reference for the non math science types to measuing the cubic capacity fo the bulb.) We used the same principles in field engineering using stress and moment formulas to determine weak points and from that slap on the correct amount explosives. Of course a little P for plenty often times found it's way into the solution but when P wasn't available a thorough understanding of how things were built saved the day. By the timie the slide rule guys were half done we had lit the fuses. Fire In The Hole! And that wasn't my primary job.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 7 months ago
      "we are all bucking the system of propaganda "
      Sometimes I feel like I'm blind to it, like it goes right over my head. I'm not making the toupee fallacy, saying I can always see through it. I think politicians often operate by getting people fired up about things so they partly abandon reason. Engineers don't get as emotionally fired up. It's like we're the weirdos (I am anyway) not caught up in the trees, so we see the forest.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 7 months ago
        well said! . but we have to be able to see both
        the forest and the trees, individually. . like that
        stupid cartoon from long ago where the dog is
        running through the forest and hits a tree ...
        and says, " 'Nuther tree." -- j
        .
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 7 months ago
    We need more true individualism, not less. But, that includes self responsibility and thinking as an individual. Schools teach group think, and love it. The old, "There is no I in team" had me in our daughter's school more than once. So did their insistence that they rely on peers for their values and attitudes. Kids are prepared by school to accept the rest of the propaganda on TV and in stores marketing, and in politic. They have been trained to NOT think, but to wait for someone to give them the answers, even if they are wrong. Taking talking points, with no idea what they mean, is like junk food for the mind. I always ask someone who starts to spout them at me, "Could you put that in your own words for me?" They look bland at that point, Sad, very sad.Yes, I do yelp at the TV when Hillary is on, when some liberal says something with no common sense attached, or when Marie Osmond, likely the most overexposed person on TV, says, "Nothing feels better than losing weight every month?" What, is she trying to lead kids to eating disorders to get skinny? No one mentions she was paid almost two million to lose 50 pounds, and has used some of it to get cosmetic surgery and take regular Botox treatments! TV is not reality, it is some corporation or politician trying to make more bucks, but not through equal trade. The classic philosophers asked questions of their subjects, and that led those subjects to think for themselves. We don't see much of that anymore..
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 7 months ago
      As we whittle this down to the lowest common denominator, I think we'll arrive at: we all need: "Individual Responsibility"...it has been forgotten that it was the natural law of "responding differently" that enables a species to survive.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 7 months ago
    When I read Atlas and started hanging around Objectivist wannabees, I realized how ignorant I actually was. I took Brandon's course on the basic principles and subscribed to the newsletter and went to the library and read or bought all the books recommended. The was when I realized that all of the things that I thought made me the crazy one were actually the craziness of the world I was surrounded by. The world of liberalism, and screwed up conservatism. Finally, things started making sense. Only then, could I truly discern the difference between truth and the lies of propaganda. It has, however, caused frustration when I am confronted by those who have bought into the propaganda of the collectivists, which I so easily see, and they are blinded to.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 7 months ago
      Today...it's hard to discern because the left has crafted their idiotic propaganda to sound like the truth sayers, tapping in to emotions of false guilt...that's what pissed me off.
      Had a discussion the other night at the change of shifts, my replacement said he watched a history show about how cruel and evil America was on the Indians...I flashed back: Not America...Andrew Jackson and a few idiots on both sides...not the country, not our founding fathers, not "White" people. I pointed out the treaties by the Pilgrims and our new government had with the Indian population that still stand today.
      People look at you with disbelief when you say to them..."That's a Lie!", much like we did at first, but we went to check it out for ourselves.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 7 months ago
        There is a certain type of person who cannot stand success in others. Rather than trying to emulate them, they like nothing better than to try to destroy them. There are many examples of that type in both The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. The answer to that type is simply to copy good old Howard R. "But I don't think of you Mr. Toohey."
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 7 years, 7 months ago
    As long as our schools teach "What to think" rather than "How to think" the propagandist will have an enthusiastic audience. The problem is that everyone is afraid to use the "P" word. When a reporter chooses to influence rather than inform the line from journalist to propagandist has been crossed. It is so much easier to parrot an "authority" figure than to go to the trouble to form an opinion by analyzing the available facts. The propagandist takes advantage of the fact that many people are intellectually lazy.
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  • Posted by rbroberg 7 years, 7 months ago
    What is propaganda? Propaganda is "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc." or "the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc." or "the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement".

    I do take issue with the last definition, to which I attribute the word "dissemination" or "marketing".

    Thus, based on the first definition, the genus of propaganda should be "claim" and the differentia should be both "unproven" and "intended to influence an outcome".

    To seek out propaganda is to seek out an unproven claim intended to influence an outcome. Two approaches come to mind. People do not seek out claims which are unproven qua unproven. No one cares about the convention of gremlins studying Hegel on the planet Venus. People seek out claims which are unproven believing these claims to be proven, soon-to-be proven, or to-be-proven. The approach is similar to rooting for a sports team facing a more or less equal opponent. The second is what I would call the "false prophet effect", where a person wants to believe a claim and so believes an elaborate series of falsehoods in order to maintain his views. This can be likened to the savage who chants some kind of spell in order to avoid an impending lava flow. Or to an ostrich.

    Objectivism provides a structure, a method, and a basis for interacting with Western culture at the most fundamental level. Without Objectivism, the immune system of my thought process, I would be able to neither explicitly defend nor consistently integrate the philosophic and political thought to which I am exposed.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 7 months ago
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    Yum, yum, yum! Enter ye into the maw of infinite oblivion where ye shall fear pain and want no more!
    Yum, yum--burp!
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 7 months ago
    Without proper education whereby people are taught to think which I know no longer happens in the USA the population that develops as we have seen and continue to see is easily led by the nose to the cliffs edge like lemmings.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 7 months ago
    It starts out criticizing people accepting propaganda instead of thinking critically. By the end it's mourning a time when people were less individualistic and accepted the ideas of their community.

    "In the past, when confronted with new or different ideas, people who did not achieve the heights of formal education had the values and traditions embedded in their communities to fall back on."

    "But today, hyper-individualism, increased urbanization, the breakdown of the family, and ideological divisions have caused a decline in the formative influence of community, and reduced our access to the “common sense” that it can provide. "

    I agree with the quotes, but I think they're a positive development.
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