Have You Given Up on America?

Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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I had a conversation with a coworker this morning. He started it by mentioning that "Trump scares me." I have come to realize that, especially now that the candidate pool has been greatly diminished, they all scare me. While the president can have an impact on the nation, I think this whole thing has too much momentum in the wrong direction for any one person to fix it.

Then, one could say that the citizens will come to their senses and either rise up, or vote, or protest, or whatever. But, I don't have any faith in that anymore. I haven't for several years now. A vast majority of people seem to either be woefully unprincipled, or just dumb as rocks (often both). In my small circle of friends I know some really brilliant, passionate people. Most seem to still think they can change the system. I don't. And, that's where I'm at with this question. Do you have "faith" that America will somehow find its way to a free economy, to better schools, to more liberty, etc?


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  • Posted by Zenphamy 7 years, 11 months ago
    Faith: Trust or belief in something or someone with no facts or proof to support.

    The concept of individual freedom (self ownership, ownership of one's life and one' time) as an immutable truth of man's existence, fully understood by a majority of America's population is the only possible means of attaining the "change" you seem to desire. Government will not reduce itself or it's power.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      Yes Zen. This is how I'm looking at it. Why, under this system of people management (gov), with this kind of flock of livestock should I expect things to not continue to go downhill? I know some awake people. They have little meetings, little conferences where they say things that make sense. Everybody claps. But, outside the meeting you've got the stuff that Mark Dice turns into entertainment: a vast majority of people who think Karl Marx should be the VP, who think gun owners should be sent to camps, etc. These people think the 4th of July is to celebrate dead presidents. We've got draconian laws kicking in here in California. Nobody cares. Lawmakers openly talk in committee meetings of breaking up families, etc. Perhaps being on Objectivist in California puts me on the bleeding edge...
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 7 years, 11 months ago
        Yes Abaco; I'd think 'wound care' should be a major activity in CA. I have no more idea than anyone else of what could possibly be done, other than to explain to those that think an election will change things or that the country will revolt are going to be waiting at least the rest of their lives. All that can be done is to live as free as possible, keep a low profile, and teach any that will listen with interest.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 11 months ago
        "a vast majority of people who think Karl Marx should be the VP"
        Stay away from these weirdos. They're not the majority. Just nod you head and go back to people who are getting shit done. The world is run by people showing up and doing stuff, and on that basis I'm not worried about people who will sign a petition for Karl Marx to be the VP (whatever that even means) running anything.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 7 years, 11 months ago
    On the ideal of America? No. On the USA that has replaced or all but buried it? Largely yes. That is I have little hope that the people will pull back from the fascist/socialist super state model and remember this land was supposed to be based on individual freedom or hold that freedom dear or understand and defend it at all accurately.

    I think the best although difficult option is to build a new country. These days you may have to create the land (advanced seastead). Yes it is a long shot. But how can you reach people when ever tool of persuasion is either dissolved in intellectual doublespeak or everything substantial is met with TL;DR?
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  • Posted by ISank 7 years, 11 months ago
    BBC says the US dept of treasury reported 4270 people had given up to the point of renouncing thier citizenship last year.
    Even if the debt grew even more huge and the us defaulted, then in the aftermath as everyone's savings were wiped out, the two sides of the same card would be blaming each other for it, and stoopid people would file right in line behind thier chosen master. ( not saying they will default, this is a what if statement)
    So Im not too optimistic, but until I turn in my passport, I guess I really haven't given up.

    Have fun
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 11 months ago
    Trump scares me too, but the core of that fear is the gov't and executive branches are so powerful that we need a moderate president who represents the interests of all groups.

    I see the whole US gov't as set up with intentionally limited executive, so we wouldn't have to depend on the "king" being benevolent. Gov't powers were to be limited so the gov't wouldn't have to consider everyone's interests. People would manage their own interests. If the gov't operated this way and there were solid systems to prevent the president from over-reaching, I wouldn't be scared.

    "Do you have "faith" that America will somehow find its way to a free economy, to better schools, to more liberty, etc?"
    In many ways (certainly not all) we have a freer economy, better schools, and more liberty than 100 and 200 years ago. Based on this trend, I'm optimistic that we will get a freer economy, better schools, and more liberty in the future. There certainly is a lot of room for improvement.
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