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  • 23
    Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 3 years, 1 month ago
    Indoctrination via public education (K-12 and college level as well);
    Scant of knowledge of their.and their nations, history and their rights as Americans.
    Moral ambiguity and Cultural equivalence (siren song of socialism)
    A deliberately constructed dismal future outlook combined with stories from Mom and Dad about how much better things were when they were kids
    They've been steered into carrying the yoke and will not understand that reality until it firmly fastened.
    Ive fought this battle with society my entire life for my kids. College has been the roughest. At best I raise social outcasts.
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    • Posted by  $  splumb 3 years, 1 month ago
      ding ding ding! Correct!
      This is an evil plot by the Alinsky-ites to brainwash our young and prepare them for a socialist future.
      And, sadly, it's working well.
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      • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 3 years, 1 month ago
        All you need is historical context.

        When an opponent declares, “I will not come over to your side,” I calmly say, “Your child belongs to us already… What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.”
        Adolf Hitler

        Speech November 1933, quoted in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer

        ‘”We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” – Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927)
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    • Posted by Mamaemma 3 years, 1 month ago
      AJ, my children had read Atlas and Fountainhead by 16 (gee, I wonder who made that happen?), and they are not social outcasts at all. They are, however, very good at finding great people to be friends with- you know, like the people in the Gulch!
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  • 18
    Posted by Grendol 3 years, 1 month ago
    Young people (1) don't usually have first hand experience with the painful realities of collectivism. (2) have selective history taught in school. (3) are praised for optimism and teamwork with a community service flavor but are not publicly praised for producing real value in the marketplace. (4) are taught by teacher who are mostly legally required to be members of the very politically active public employee unions for teachers (5) and many sanders supporters are the same ilk of the occupy movement which would rather squat a camp on land they don't own for free than go find work.
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    • Posted by roneida 3 years, 1 month ago
      Grendol....You've been reading my mail. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree...... Back in the 60's when the stoned hippies became worshipped, they eventually realized that America's strong military made it impossible for them to take over by force...BUT, they were smart enough to follow Lenin and Marx....take over all the education and in 2 generations the victims will come to you without a shot being fired. It worked superbly. There is no way all the false teaching can be overcome without total failure....Check out "Atlas Shrugged".
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  • Posted by Abaco 3 years, 1 month ago
    A couple years ago I was talking to a lady friend of mine about her son. I watched this boy grow up from the age of 2. Sweet kid. Anyway, she told me that in order for him to graduate from his high school (public) he had mandatory "volunteer" community service. I took a few minutes to point out the irony in that requirement. It made an impression on me and made me realize just how twisted our system is.

    These kids can't help it. They are screwed from the start.

    This leads into a related topic that I am going to start a new thread on.
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    • Posted by term2 3 years, 1 month ago
      I decided years ago NOT to have children. Most of their lives would be living in the decline of the USA, and it wouldnt be pretty.
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      • Posted by Abaco 3 years, 1 month ago
        I can totally understand that position. I've got two and they are amazing little ones. But, raising children in America now is really, really challenging and (honestly) frightening. Remember from the chapter White Blackmail that people (governments) will threaten what is most valuable to you in order to get you to do what they want? That really applies to families and their children these days. I know several really good parents who've been threatened by family court judges, school districts, etc. It's surreal...
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        • Posted by term2 3 years, 1 month ago
          when your own kids can sue you using the government's powers, its pretty bad. My estimate is that its better to do home schooling and keep them away from the government indoctrination center schools. They will learn more anyway...
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          • Posted by Abaco 3 years, 1 month ago
            We are this -><- close to doing just that. Common Core and all this other crap they are stuffing down kids' throats is very, VERY bad stuff. When you see stuff like "7+6= 10 and 13. 13 is the wrong answer" on math homework you know something is very wrong. Am starting to discuss our options with a group of like-minded families... And, now here in Cal the teachers union is going after charter schools...which will be the death of public schools here, accelerating the mass exodus.

            I am going to sound like a nut here. But, I honestly think there is some sort of veiled direct attack on kids with stuff like Common Core. When you see what's in it you can't really think it's just a ham-handed, hairbrained scheme. There's something more to it...
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            • Posted by  $  nickursis 3 years, 1 month ago
              You do not sound like a nut at all, you are observing facts. There is a distinct effort to kill off creative thought and real knowledge and understanding, and replace it with dogma and "compassion" I have believed in a conspiracy to do this for 40 years, as it is the only logical explanation, unless they really did create the Stupidity virus and it got loose....
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            • Posted by  $  blarman 3 years, 1 month ago
              Yup. I keep telling my kids to bludgeon their way through during school and I'll teach them the efficient (i.e. traditional) way to do math when they get home. There's no need to turn everything into a story problem and no need for every simple addition problem to take five minutes to solve. Whatever happened to Math Counts?
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        • Posted by  $  nickursis 3 years, 1 month ago
          It ws happening in the 80s and 90s. My 2 boys were pee tested from age 12 (and were positive on several occasions). Came in handy when they finally decided they had screwed the pooch and were going in the Army to learn a useful skill, I held it over their heads and told them if they screwed up, the army would get their results. Both are senior NCOs and have served admirably. Never needed to carry out the threat. Funniest thing was the lab asking me if they consented to the tests, first I told them they did, second I told them they didn't get a vote, third they told the lab they did. Not sure you could do that today.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 3 years, 1 month ago
      Yup. It's pretty amazing that people put those two words right next to each other. "mandatory service" is a paradox more appropriately called serfdom.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 3 years, 1 month ago
        Well, I admit that I laughed my head off when my kids came home with a paper specifying how many "mandatory volunteer hours" they had to do. The schools excuse was that it would make their college applications more favorable.
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
      Thank goodness my high school doesn't require this yet, but I find it ridiculous that in order to participate in some clubs, you must have a certain number of volunteer hours - regardless of how much of an asset you are in other areas of the club. As a leader in one of the clubs I'm in, I worked very hard to make volunteer hours optional, but it was a huge uphill battle.
      The difference between this and the situation you describe, Abaco, is that kids are free not to join a certain club. When they are required to spend their time washing out bedpans in order to graduate, it's inexcusable.
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      • Posted by dwlievert 3 years, 1 month ago
        In my judgement, the absolute worst thing that one human being can participate in - either singularly or as part of a group, is to provide to someone a value which they have not earned. One important caveat being that the definition of "earned" must be left up to the "owner" of said value.

        Contrary to popular religious leanings, it is not money nor the love of it (read Francisco's incredible speech in Atlas Shrugged). I would argue that participating in this act is the actual "root of all evil."

        When dealing with aspects of existence that do not include man, a human being quickly learns that it is impossible to get something for nothing. He then quickly becomes further aware and formulates a higher abstraction that "for nature to be commanded she must first be obeyed."

        Unfortunately, when combined with what a friend terms the "ABC's of accepted morality" (Altruism, Brothers keeper, Common good), together with their inevitable politics, this morality logically leads to the now all-too-common "awareness" of seeming to be able to obtain something for nothing. It has literally become an industry. To the extent it and the morality that "justifies" it exists, it serves to reinforce the idea that not only can it be done, but that it is morally "proper" to expect, seek, and demand it!

        Socialism satisfies the expectations and the political basis for its fulfillment.
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 3 years, 1 month ago
    Also the young tend to make decisions based on emotion, not logic and reason. Some have wisdom and exceptional critical thinking skills beyond their age but the majority do not. I think that has been true since the beginning of human history.
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  • Posted by  $  Temlakos 3 years, 1 month ago
    Because he makes socialism sound like the ultimate community service program. And he makes it sound so easy. He gives no math. No one asks him for any.

    And I think they look for a future in which the government will decide what gets made, and for whom, and how much of it, and what reward anyone will get.

    "Sing to our rainbow fatherland,
    Built by the people's mighty hand!
    Long live the people, united and free!
    Strong in our friendships tried by fire!
    Long may our crimson flag inspire,
    Shining in glory for all folk to see!"

    Paraphrase of the refrain of the State Hymn of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Paul Robeson, original translator.

    And maybe substitute "sky-blue" for "crimson." As in: the flag of the United Nations.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 3 years, 1 month ago
      It is the ultimate community service program. You work and someone else benefits from your labors!

      What none of them know is how the original USSR was run - you had the elites in the Politburo, the enforcers in the KGB and GRU, the black market profiteers, and millions of starving peasants. No such thing as a middle class.
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      • Posted by  $  Temlakos 3 years, 1 month ago
        Right. Bernie Sanders has his nomenklatura, don't kid yourselves. He just keeps his hidden. In contrast, Hillary throws her own nomenklatura in our faces.
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    • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 1 month ago
      "azure" scans better.

      Jan
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      • Posted by  $  Temlakos 3 years, 1 month ago
        Meaning I used a spondee ("sky blue," both syllables stressed) instead of the trochee (stress on the first syllable only) you recommend. Got it.
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        • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 1 month ago
          Thank you! Usually I have to be the one to explain that stuff.

          Do you write poetry? You seem poetically inclined.

          Jan
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          • Posted by  $  Temlakos 3 years, 1 month ago
            No, I don't write poetry regularly. But I have tried my hand occasionally at changing lyrics to fit a new message--or even writing lyrical translations. Most recently, in fact, I decided to translate the "National Anthem of Panem" (cf. The Hunger Games cycle) lyrically into Latin.

            Cornucopia!
            Cornucopia omnibus!
            Clamose sonato,
            Clamosem audimus,
            Numquamque claudebimus!

            Cornucopia omnibus!

            Capitoli,
            Lucet adamas tuus!
            Tributum di...
            ...ebus atterimis!

            Cornucopia omnibus!
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            • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 1 month ago
              That is neat. I have avoided the Hunger Names because...another dystopia. I may go back and pick it up someday, but your Latin poem got me to look up the English lyrics to National Anthem of Panem.

              Schadenfreude.

              Jan
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  • Posted by  $  richrobinson 3 years, 1 month ago
    Excellent question Sarah. Someone who is 18-20 years old would have been 10-12 when the '08 collapse took place. Going thru government indoctrination in the public school system they were probably told repeatedly the cause was Capitalism. Many, as they grew up, watched their families ripped apart by rising unemployment and a tanking economy while the wealthiest received bail outs from the Government. My guess is that Socialism is the natural alternative to fix what they perceive to be the problem.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 1 month ago
    Possible reasons:
    1. They at least partly believe progressive candidates are more open to new ideas.
    2. There's not a viable alternative that argues against gov't intrusiveness.
    3. They support them because they think policies that look socialistic on the surface are actually more efficient ways to deal with problems. For example, taxpayers paying for someone else's job training sounds socialistic, but if in some instance it's proven to reduce taxpayers paying for the criminal justice system, there's a selfish reason to support it.
    4. People believe it's a good idea to help one another. They wrongly think socialistic policies are a way to do that.
    5. They have seen some instance of unhealthy behavior, maybe addiction, theft, or fraud, and they wrongly thing this is what capitalism is about.
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    • Posted by term2 3 years, 1 month ago
      The accountability issue isnt raised. Socialism costs the people who work in order to pay for the people who dont. Plus, the government takes a cut for providing these services (a very BIG cut because they are inefficient). In addition, the government isnt very good at providing the services and it gets away with non performance.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 3 years, 1 month ago
    An experienced, mature person has the ability to think through distant, unintended, but totally foreseeable consequences. Someone who is intellectually and emotionally immature thinks maybe one step into the future. So, if you tell this young kid "You are getting college for FREE!" all they think is "I'm getting college for FREE!" If you tell someone who is intellectually and emotionally mature the same thing the first response is "OK,what's the catch?" Because they know that if something is too good to be true it probably is a scam, or Ponzi scheme. The more mature person will then work their way through the logical consequences to the conclusion and figure out that you will pay for it eventually, now, or later. If you want to have some fun, try the following as a litmus test of intellectual maturity: When you go into a store and a sales person asks "Can I help you?" say "I'm beyond that." Most young sales kids will give you a quizzical look and walk off because they can't think through it. All they get is that you gave an unexpected response. Most mature folks will give you a courtesy laugh because they get the dumb joke because they can think through the train of thought to the end.
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  • Posted by BrettScott 3 years, 1 month ago
    Young people are taught that selflessness is the highest level of personal development. They're also taught to put emotion before reason: "follow your heart", "mean people suck", "guns are evil", etc..
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  • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
    Hi Sarah,
    Great question!

    I agree with most of what everyone has replied to this post. But since you are in high school, I would love to hear from you. What you see & believe to be the reasons for this support?

    Ed
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
      I asked precisely because I'm not sure; however, I think the democratic indoctrination in K-12 has contributed a lot. I also think that a lot of them are good-willed, and they mistakenly believe socialism is the way to give the "underprivileged" what they deserve. I don't, but a lot of people I know do, and it's sad.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
        Thanks for your reply. I get that you are not sure. I think we are all guessing a little since we cannot see inside anyone's head. For me, hearing what a student sees helps validate or invalidate what I am thinking. Just one more piece of the equation.

        I would ask one more question. Since you are taught with the same teachers and books, what do you believe kept you from the same path as the others?
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      • Posted by cranedragon 3 years, 1 month ago
        Because so many are indoctrinated to "judge not lest ye be judged" and that failure is the fault of society, we have lost our willingness -- even our ability -- to separate out the deserving poor, who could benefit from intelligent, voluntary charity, and the undeserving poor, who are perpetual moochers. Most of us have seen the Youtube videos of the downtrodden beggar on the corner who walks a few blocks at the end of the day and gets into a nice car.

        Students have no problem understanding that if they burned the midnight oil to ace the test, they should get the A; and that to give everyone an A [for effort?] degrades everything they put into their studies. However, they don't seem willing to extrapolate from that to the bigger world, and understand that there's a reason for income inequality, and much of health inequality. Part of it is luck; but a bigger part is intelligence and hard work -- passing up on the sweets and booze and cigarettes, and showing up for work on time and eager to work.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 3 years, 1 month ago
        Sarah, I also firmly believe that these young people who believe socialism is the way to give people what they deserve are absolutely sure that the money required to do so will not come from them. So they can be "generous" because they believe it will cost them nothing, and they may even get some freebies themselves.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
          If they actually did the math, which my acquaintances are capable of doing, I think they'd realize quickly there isn't enough money from billionaires and millionaires to do anything Sanders is proposing. I'm baffled by their ability to look past these facts and continue advocating socialism.
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 3 years, 1 month ago
            It's so simple, isn't it? I am always amazed at the ability of intelligent, capable people to completely deny reality. "Don't tell me any facts; I've already made up my mind!" I always try to be vigilant and look at reality. I have found in my life that ignoring and trying to deny reality ends up being very painful. You have an excellent head start on life, Sarah. And I'm glad you're here.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 3 years, 1 month ago
    Sanders and Trump scratch an itch that has been plaguing the country for years. They both challenge, or at least appear to challenge, the absolute corruption that stems from absolute power. While they each see different aspects of the problem and suggest very different solutions they both challenge the status quo and both claim to be beholden to no one. We live in a time of high anxiety and there is a tendency on the part of the public to shoot first and ask questions later. We want results, never mind the nasty details. If Jesse Watters interviews are any indication of the intellectual capacity of the public at large we are in for some very unpleasant times. As Winston Churchill observed "The greatest argument against democracy can be found in a five minute conversation with the common man."
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  • Posted by  $  Susanne 3 years, 1 month ago
    The entire ethos of the school system and the requirements to succeed - from elementary school through the college level - mandate a thorough and complete unquestioning acceptance of the Socialist creed.

    Example - I have a book for one of the classes I'm enrolled in - Intro to American Government - the book being "The Challenge of Democracy". THe first 4 pages is an entire diatribe on the glory and greatness of the social welfare system, how the wealthy are greedy and care less about the world, as long as they grab the money by raping the resources... and how the left is wonderful for all the social equality and welfare programs they provide to the poor.

    It took a LOT of shaking my head, Pepto-Bismol, and (frankly) coarse language to get through that part. And yet - the people in the class (most of whom are 18-22) accept this as doctrine, and say this made them feel better about the class.

    Why? Because they have been, for the first 14 years of their educational lives, well indoctrinated that Socialism and poverty and sacrifice for those with their hands out is good, capitalism and success and a positive sense of self worth are bad.

    God help me - I need this class for my physics degree, but it makes my stomach lurch every time I open the book and read more of what their "target audience" calls "absolutely neutral, unbiased writing".
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 1 month ago
      " the book being "The Challenge of Democracy"."
      I looked up the book on Amazon - $143 for paperback. That's a huge gravy train for the author and/or publisher. Even a really good and popular paperback would not command that price without it being required for a class.
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    • Posted by Bethesda-gal 3 years, 1 month ago
      Is there any way to transfer to a school that doesnt promote leftist perspectives ? Perhaps long distance learning ? And if you are able to switch, send a letter to the governing body of this school stating why they will no longer get your money.
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  • Posted by rainman0720 3 years, 1 month ago
    When I get elected, I will make Atlas Shrugged a requirement to get your driver's license.

    As part of that course, each individual will be assigned one individual from the book and argue that that character is completely correct and justified.

    Character assignments will be randomly drawn, so one never knows if the argument will be from James Taggart's point of view, or from Quentin Daniels' perspective, etc.

    If everyone had to consider the dystopia that Ayn Rand so beautifully and brilliantly created in A.S., I think at least some of them would quickly understand why they were wrong in their beliefs.
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  • Posted by term2 3 years, 1 month ago
    Young people today are "entitled" and used to be taken care of by family and then society in general.

    The idea that one is living in a loving, caring world that will take away all pain and suffering is attractive. Who wouldnt want that? All thats needed is a money tree. Both Hillary and Sanders promise that the money tree is there (the rich people) and will always be there without working to keep it alive. Cant we all just get along? Socialism will do all these things for you....
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    • Posted by cranedragon 3 years, 1 month ago
      I get that a lot from my D-I-L. She thinks that all family interactions should be "safe zones" where nothing of any consequence is ever discussed [unless you're agreeing with her, of course...] My children were raised with healthy even heated debate as the extra course at virtually every family meal, and now all real discussions must be held when D-I-L is not present. The ultimate censor.
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  • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
    Thank you everyone for contributing! I ask this because I know some incredibly book smart young people who are supporting Sanders, and I think the causes you all listed definitely contribute to their disillusionment.
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  • Posted by diessos 3 years, 1 month ago
    A valid reason for modifying the 26th amendment to allow 18 year olds to vote only if they are employed full time or serving in the military.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 1 month ago
      And they can prove that they understand the value of individual liberty and personal responsibility, and understand why free markets work and government manipulated markets never work. (Of course, these stipulations must apply to all potential voters.)
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    • Posted by walkabout 3 years, 1 month ago
      Repeal the 26th amendment. Pass amendment to allow active duty military to vote regardless of age in federal elections. At 21 and beyond, military members on election day would be allowed two votes.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 years, 1 month ago
    Because they have been coddled, falsely praised, taught faux, revised history or no history at all.They do not pay attention to what's going on.

    Did you ever watch Waters world? These kids do no know anything...even at a younger age we had a sense of it in my day.

    They, like many, feel entitled; they have fallen for the "Rich" 1% when in fact that 1% that is greedy are the very one's blaming value creating, free market capitalizing, charity giving business creators...hence those that are pointing the fingers, like always, are the one's that have created the problems, invaded our once valued corporations as majority stock holders, board members or coerced them with regulations; then fleeced them for political donations.
    The younger generation has been made in their image.

    Not to mention, bad people are good and good people are bad...That is why they support bernie and hiltery for free stuff...

    Just Wait till they start working at that 30.00 an hour minimum wage job and find out they are paying for all that so called "Free" stuff!

    Sorry...guess I was venting a little.
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  • Posted by teciw 3 years, 1 month ago
    People, especially the young, support socialism because those who allegedly oppose it keep repeating the progressive lie that "Socialism has never succeeded. Socialism has always failed.' Yet, Socialism has always achieved poverty, oppression, destruction and death, to the extent has been tried.

    It is not possible for Socialism to ever achieve anything else. It is anti-success, anti-individual, anti-mind, to be enforced at the point of a gun.

    People look at external reality, see the poverty, oppression, destruction and death, and hear alleged intellectuals saying "socialism has always failed, and conclude that what they see is not necessarily the possible end result, maybe when it succeeds they will have Utopia. The alleged intellectuals are giving further efforts to achieve Utopia a moral sanction.

    Whereas, if intellectuals told the truth, that Socialism has always succeeded, that it is not possible for Socialism to fail, people could look at external reality, 100% of all examples of Socialism, and conclude that Socialism and its advocates are evil.

    Socialism survives because of the moral sanction by its alleged opponents.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 3 years, 1 month ago
    I agree with AJAshinoff, and would like to add:::
    these youngsters without educational anchors are facing
    bleak job prospects with diminished pay rates and large
    student debts, seeing billionaires doing soooooo well
    despite the sour economy, and without doing the math,
    they think "Let's balance this thing. . I'm being cheated."
    so they look for a way to "balance" society and there
    it is -- government force. . ouch. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
      Ouch indeed! Thanks to Ayn Rand I understand the nature of "competition" between employer and employee. It's no different with billionaires; they are improving our standard of living and there is absolutely no reason to punish them for producing value.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 3 years, 1 month ago
    "If you are 20 and are not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are 40 and you are not a consevative, you have no brain."
    --- Winston Churchill.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 years, 1 month ago
      And that illustrates the problem: the ideas that ethics is based on the "heart", that the source of such feelings is to be left unexamined, and that any idealist should support the left. There is no clash between the ethical and mature intelligent functioning, but that requires understanding that ethics does not mean sacrifice.
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    • Posted by ohiocrossroads 3 years, 1 month ago
      I was thinking of a similar quote:
      "If my son is a socialist at 20, that's not so bad. If my son is a socialist at 30, I'll disinherit him"

      (I like Churchill's quote better.)
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      • Posted by teri-amborn 3 years, 1 month ago
        I started out as a young person thinking that I could change the world.
        By the time I was 30, the world had changed me.
        If these children want cloistered living perhaps they should choose to live in a convent.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 3 years, 1 month ago
    It is simply education. They have no sense to realize that they will pay dearly later in life for the excessive spending by our politicians.
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    • Posted by  $  Suzanne43 3 years, 1 month ago
      True! They have been taught that they can live on other peoples' money and get a lot of free stuff by soaking the supposedly rich. I think that it was Margaret Thatcher who said that socialism finally fails when you run out of other people's money.
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