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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 3 years, 1 month ago
    Henry Ford: "Thinking is hard. Which is why so few people do it."
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    • Posted by dbhalling 3 years, 1 month ago
      Who supported Hitler.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
        Really? I have not heard that. Where can I learn more?
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        • Posted by dbhalling 3 years, 1 month ago
          I did some digging and it is possible that the connection is not as strong as I thought. Here is an academic paper on point https://www.academia.edu/207381/Rethi...
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          • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
            Thanks. From what I understand, there were quite a number of people that supported Hitler in the 30's so it would be no surprise if he did. I simply had not heard it and wanted to see if you could shed light on it.
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            • Posted by ewv 3 years, 1 month ago
              "As we survey the government of Italy, therefore, we may now name all the essential ingredients of fascism. It is a form of social organization

              "1. In which the government acknowledges no restraint upon its powers -- totalitarianism.

              "2. In which this unrestrained government is managed by a dictator -- the leadership principle.

              "3. In which the government is organized to operate the capitalist system and enable it to function under an immense bureaucracy.

              '4. In which the economic society is organized on the syndicalist model, that is by producing groups formed into craft and professional categories under supervision of the state.

              "5. In which the government and syndicalist organizations operate the capitalist society on the planned, autarchial principle.

              "6. In which the government holds itself responsible to provide the nation with adequate purchasing power by public spending and borrowing.

              "7. In which militarism is used as a conscious mechanism of government spending, and

              "8. In which imperialism is included as a policy inevitably flowing from militarism as well as other elements of fascism.

              "Wherever you find a nation using all of these devices you will know that this is a fascist nation. in proportion as any nation uses most of them you may assume it is tending in the direction of fascism... Dictatorship alone does not make a fascist state."

              As We Go Marching: A biting indictment of the coming of domestic fascism in America, 1944, by John T. Flynn, better known for his The Roosevelt Myth

              Check, check, check, ...
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              • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
                We've made it to the end, haven't we?? At least 7 anyway and it seems to me #2 is hidden by the fact that we still have a (go along) congress & senate.
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                • Posted by ewv 3 years, 1 month ago
                  It's worse than the current Congress going along. It's generally accepted and not considered controversial by most. it's a battle just get people to pay to attention to argument about it.

                  #2 check
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            • Posted by jabuttrick 3 years, 1 month ago
              Lindbergh for instance.
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              • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
                He was another one? Got anything I can read to learn more?
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                • Posted by jabuttrick 3 years, 1 month ago
                  Lindbergh made trips to Germany and met with high government officials. He came back to the US and extolled the efficacy of the Nazi system. He argued against opposition to Hitler's regime and in favor of appeasement basically on the ground that the Germans could not be defeated. Sorry I don't have direct book references but I just moved and my entire library is boxed up in my garage right now waiting for bookshelves to be built. A feeble excuse, I know.
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                  • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 1 month ago
                    Not a feeble excuse. Moving is a chore I've done too many times and I completely understand. If you get unpacked and remember to post later, I am interested in learning more.
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  • Posted by wiggys 3 years, 1 month ago
    Sarah,
    as you have read from the posters clllectivism in all of its forms is what the youth of america has been indoctrinated to support. But it has gotten even worse over the years with the youth of america believing they are entitled to every wish the have should come true. The sanders and clinton are only parroting all who proceeded them in the office, 0 just happens to be the most generous with our tax dollars and those dollars he has been able to get from else where in the world if that actually did happen. I a phrase they have "THE GIMMES".
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  • Posted by walkabout 3 years, 1 month ago
    Unfortunately a number of sociological factors come together to select for the teaching profession individuals with relatively low IQ's and (generally) below average competitiveness. So our average children (IQ = 100) are being "taught" by those with low average IQ's (ave. IQ = 85). Those teacher's life experience was not to be winners, so to quell their hurt feelings (from being losers) they eliminate keeping score and give everyone a trophy (of course, our children do keep score and know their trophies are worthless). Colleges of education are peopled by those who have never been in the real world and thus think these below average people are average (they have little experience being challenged or pushed to do better -- appearance of effort is what counts, not results). If we eliminate schools of education and only hire people with history of success who are retiring from real world experiences (e.g. retiring military or agencies/industries that retire people after 20 or 25 years) we could fix this in a generation. Of course lower IQ folks tend also to believe they need group power to be competitive, thus union membership.
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    • Posted by Blanco 3 years, 1 month ago
      I'm not sure that I.Q. is much of a determinant of whether a person is wise in his decisions or not. I've been a member of Mensa since 1977 and have met a lot of very intelligent people. However, most of them were not wise, i.e. they were liberal collectivists. I just haven't found any positive correlation between I.Q. and wisdom in my social interaction.
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      • Posted by walkabout 3 years, 1 month ago
        IQ may well not correlate with wisdom. One of the observed issues is called the Dunning–Kruger effect; a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes. This tends to lead to unskilled suffering from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"
        thus, your lack of correlation between IQ (What D-K call competence) and wisdom is predicted. I think life experience is probably more highly correlated with wisdom than measured IQ -- especially if those with high IQ get isolated from reality/real life experiences. Congratulations on you Mensa membership!
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      • Posted by  $  3 years, 1 month ago
        Raw intelligence is not the issue; the ability to apply the IQ that you do have rationally is what counts. I agree with you, Blanco; most of the extremely intelligent people I've met are collectivists at the core, and it astounds me that they're unable to (or unwilling) to correct their political ideology.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 3 years, 1 month ago
    ...and Hillary does not "get it" either...by calling Bernie Sanders out on his "numbers", it is the kettle calling the pot black...she coined the phrase..it takes a village (to raise a child)...today's youth have been raised in govt (public) free schools...they cannot not even apply for college unless they have so many community (slave) service hours...it is entitlement meets "duty"...they will happy to vote for Sanders, if he will give them "free" anything...and to expect the "Fed" to print the money to pay for it...
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  • Posted by  $  Thoritsu 3 years, 1 month ago
    People are no longer taught the zero sum game. There is always the proverbial "them" to sweep a chunk of money from and take care of a problem. The idea that there is an alternate forgone opportunity from the money is lost.
    Neither are young people taught that the rich don't just accumulate wealth, they spend it, or how wealth is created. If you don't understand wealth creation, and listen to the media about "unfair income or wealth inequality" you are drawn into the defend the underdog psyche. How could they think otherwise.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 3 years, 1 month ago
    Government schools have not taught how to think and have egregiously taught a modified history and twisted economics to students. Remember, the frontal cortex does not mature until the early twenties and the indoctrinators have a free hand to condition the students not to think — just to feel.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 1 month ago
    It's the college vote just look at the caliber of the Professors. those that aren't Nazis are Communists. Especially in New Hampshire.
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  • Posted by GaryL 3 years, 1 month ago
    They have been indoctrinated into the FSA, Free Shit Army! Some will realize the errors of their ways if they are able to climb out and make a life on their own. Membership in the FSA is wonderful until one does climb out and starts paying the bills for all the FS that was not free at all! A Rude Awakening.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 years, 1 month ago
    Because they believe in altruism and collectivism.
    And partly because the have been indoctrinated
    with it in college. I say "partly" because such be-
    liefs are held not only by college students/gradu-
    ates, but because they are widespread in our so-
    ciety, originating hundreds of years ago.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 3 years, 1 month ago
    Every child is born a socialist. Every child, when born, needs others to support him. The child has no responsibilities; everything is a game for which others pay (or make happen).
    The American uneducation system has made sure that certainly the latest, and to some degree, the previous, generation never mature, never grow up and never acquire personal responsibilities. Naturally, when they are in their 20's and 30' and even 40's, they are really still teenagers. And they continue to play games, with their own lives and those of others.
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  • Posted by  $  Solver 3 years, 1 month ago
    Young people today will discover that they will be forced to pay for the free socialism of yesterday. This happens when they grow up and become productive. If they become productive?
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 3 years, 1 month ago
    Young people are encouraged to think capitalism is a bad thing. They are not encouraged to explore what it can and should be. This goes to the schools, as kids have already been told parents know nothing and are out of date. By the time they reach college, they think credit cards are a way to get stuff, with so many unaware there are interest charges if they don't pay. They have been given credit for "volunteer" work, which excused them from tests in math and real subjects. They were encouraged to make decisions with peers - the blind leading the blind, as they used to say. It is actually heartbreaking, seeing them set up for a fall, as they are. It was Rand's writing, not the schools and not we parents, which showed our daughter the way of economics and productivity. We gave her the books, but she read them and took them with her when she moved out. She became a Libertarian and knows the unreality of socialism. Students usually do not do the deep research to find their way, Rand should be part of the school course, but low IQ teachers would never know how to teach it.
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  • Posted by  $  Ben_C 3 years, 1 month ago
    Great posts. Remember, these are the kids that got a trophy for just showing up to a competition. Their expectations are a trophy for showing up to work, let alone accomplishing anything. Bernie promises a trophy and that is all they hear.
    On another level, parents are not giving these kids boundaries. There is little if any respect given to anything. Law enforcement is an example. "Yes Officer" will keep you from getting shot. But too many times these kids are confrontational and do stupid thing such as challenging a police officer. I do work for multiple police departments and I hear this constantly from the officers.
    What most of these kids don't realize is that are some that are entrepreneurial and in ten years will be at the top of the food chain. The rest will look at them and ask,"how is that they did so well." But also, "I deserve a piece of their pie". It never ends.
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  • Posted by paulhansen669 3 years, 1 month ago
    I attribute it to several factors (some already mentioned in other comments):
    1. The indoctrination from educators that capitalism is bad and that it is "society's" responsibility to take care of those who can't take care of themselves and the moochers without any distinction. As soon as you justify govt redistribution to one group who may actually need it (mentally ill, etc...), it is a slippery slope to include more and more groups who "need help". It never ends. We are already a highly socialist society with out current govt redistribution "entitlements".
    2. Most young people don't have much to begin with and so rather than fight and earn success it is easier to add yourself into a group that "needs" the govt help.
    3. Capitalism has received a black eye while most young people have been growing up. Govt policies helped create the 2008 financial crisis as they interfered in the marketplace. However, it was spun that it came from out of control, unbridled greedy captalists. While both were at fault, no one was held accountable on either side. The only pain that came was from average people losing their jobs and homes.
    4. The younger generation has lived through a period of stagnant wages and slow economic growth. They are having a difficult time seeing paths to increase their wealth with the deck stacked against them. Home value and stock/401k value can be wiped out at a moments notice and are not worthwhile investments. They can be layed off at a moments notice and have no job security or company loyalty. The only way to get a good bump in pay is to change jobs instead of staying in the same company. Most corporations are as corrupt as govt with cronyism and smoozers usually rewarded over ability and talent.
    5. Similarly, they don't have the benefit of history. I am in my 40s and I remember the malaise of the 70s economy, the energy and growth of the 80s created by Reagan's reforms. The fall of communism (which was really just hyper socialism). A more socialist Europe suffer decades of slower growth and stagnant standard of living while the US continued to grow. The beginning of the 90's malaise that was saved by the internet/technology boom. And now the "new normal" of the current slow growth. I have seen what works to increase growth (lower taxes, less regulation, restrained govt spending). They unfortunately have not experienced this first hand and only read about it in the abstract of text books.

    They will have to see the negative effects of socialism or at least an alternative that works for them before they will reject it. Unfortunately, the state of our current, broken Capitalist model (i.e. too much govt interference in the marketplace, too big to fail, etc...) is not attractive enough to entice them to want to participate.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 1 month ago
    There was a time when I thought socialism was a good thing.
    That was back during the late 60s with peace signs, rock bands, protest marches, marijuana and free love (sex)--all that counter-culture reaction to an unpopular war.
    allosaur lived through that. So did Sanders, Clinton, a bogus "power to the people" reawakening of socialism and a whole mess of hippies who never grew up but became college professors.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 1 month ago
    Way back in the 40s and 50s the teaching of economic systems was either nil or distorted. I can only imagine the piling-on since then. If we are talking about how the USA works as a country, and people are relying on what they learned in school, it's no wonder that they don't understand anything more than what the candidates say, and then, only what they promise without a clue as to what it would take to make it happen.
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  • Posted by  $  Snezzy 3 years, 1 month ago
    American progressivism, based on
    --Fabian socialism, based on
    ----Marxist socialism, based on
    ------Hegelian dialectic, based on
    --------Kant's analytic-synthetic dichotomy, based on
    ----------Plato's shadows in the cave

    Where is Aristotle in all that?

    The Fabians started about 130 years ago and haven't stopped.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 years, 1 month ago
      The Fabians long ago ceased to exist as an intellectual activist organization, turning into yet another insulated 'think tank' of no particular distinction among many others. But the seeds they planted continue to grow into a jungle.

      (but Kant in that line up was much worse than just the ASD.)
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  • Posted by brkssb 3 years, 1 month ago
    Here is what one 30-something said: "I am going to listen to the economists that do nothing but run these numbers for a living who are behind Bernie, instead of listening to more politicians."
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