Spot on! Short and to the point. A commune is a collective. But in the Gulch, you have to be self-reliant and think for yourself. you also have property rights. Quite a few collectivists like to point to the success of the American Shaker movement forgetting that the Shakers were first motivated by religion. (They practiced celibacy.) It was their religion that carried them on for so many years. Finally, the Industrial Revolution, the lack of converts and orphans, and their communism did them in.
Its also a state of mind. As to actual actions you might take, there would be things that were needed to make it possible for the gulch to survive, so all could contribute. There are situations where the lifeboat analogy would apply, particularly when the gulch was small
On subject a commuity Kommune in parts of Europe refers to a small gathering of a few houses and barns where people gathered for mutual support and protection venturing out to the their woodlots, fields, pastures or perhaps fishing during the day. One town in Norway listed as a commune on the national tax roles had the suffix gaard meaning farm and it's root denoted a place where any further up the fjord oars were required...and we have them. thus the place where oars were made and farming conducted. gard or gaard means farm. Nothing so heroic as meaning guard in the english sense but still a protective commune or community.
mid gard as middle earth other close words are garden for garden gard used as a farm Both are germanic languages. A tun is a yard Aarth with the double A meaning the the oh sound looks amazingly like earth but I translated a town in the midwest with the English translation of Aaretungard and came up Ortonville or Ortonby and by means a village. The answer probably lies back in the Germanic roots of both English and Norwegian.
I remember Rand grew up in early years in St. Petersburgh in an area quite frequently over the centuries over run by the Scandanavians though primarily swedes they had the same mythology. Don't know if that's a connection but she was a prolific reader and soaked up knowledge faster than the English language itself
Spot on. That is as correct and simple as it gets. Hillary loves the communes in the Northwest US, where common space is shared, parenting is shared, the individual or "I" does not exist. Truly, a commune would reflect the way the residents in "Anthem" were treated. Someone always rules at some point, but the mindless participants never notice.
Good grief! How can anybody ask?! In a commune (as I understand it; I have never lived in one, nor wanted to) things are di vided up onto equal shares, regardless of how much effort any particular individuals have put into producing what is needed. In the Galt's Gulch of Atlas Shrugged, in- dividuals support themselves, individually, and even when someone loans someone else his car, by custom there is at least a nominal charge. There is an exchange of effort, not one incompetent sucking off other competent people.
Greetings johnmcgrath, That depends upon your meaning. The word as spelled has different connotations. http://dictionary.reference.com/brows... Only #1 of the three options provided in the link I supplied is applicable to Galt's Gulch in the abstract. Here in this online community, the answer to your question is in the reading. You may wish to be more specific. I see you have not commented here previously so we have no idea of your knowledge of the books or philosophy... where to begin? Respectfully, O.A.
A good question, as a gut-check. Both are communities built toward achieving a goal. I think both would assume a level of protection for the common good. The fork is at the goal. Does each person sublimate to the whole or does each derive their own worth and joy and trade value for value? Disclaimer that I've never lived in either (probably few of us here have.) As an adjunct, what of artist colonies? Or Taliesin (Frank Lloyd Wright's community/school/cult)? The line isn't always so black and white...
I have to admit that I was somewhat stunned by this question. To me there is absolutely no comparison, with the possible exception of less sex. I kinda think that when are proud of their abilities and production, they have a greater sense of self worth and their sex drive goes up.The only thing is that at the end of day you might be too tired... LOL
Are you asking about the gulch in AS or this gulch? Not sure that there is a comparison to either but wanted to understand where the question is coming from.
In a commune, a producer produces enough to go around mainly to benefit those who it is given to; producing too much or too little can be wasteful, but surpluses and shortfalls only impact the producer if it is in significant enough quantities or quality to impact the commune as a whole. In a commune, any innovation or improvements are done only to provide an increased benefit for others, increasing one's productivity only creates opportunity to assist in producing more for others. Few people have the motivation to keep innovating and increasing their own workload consistantly over time solely for the benefit of others.
In GG, a producer produces enough to go around as a medium of trade. Producing more than is useful is waste, as unless it is a commodity or storable good, the resources and time spent producing is a waste. Producing too little is at least waste of one's own time even if higher exchange rates can be had through scarcity. Innovation and improvement in GG are a driving force, as they directly impact the increased value of at least one's time, if not quality and therefore value of traceable goods.
Additionally; A Commune is generally formed from a group of like minded people who mainly desire to help each other all the time.
A Galt's Gulch is formed of people who both desire to produce and have the products of their produce valued.
The commune owns everything, including your labor. But in the Gulch you own your labor, its fruits, and whatever you can earn--and you are responsible for defending what's yours. I would surmise the Gulch has a Committee of Safety, consisting of the largest stakeholders, or their proxies. The Triumvirs seem to function as a Committee of Safety: Francisco d'Anconia in his own right, John Galt as proxy for Midas Mulligan, and Ragnar Danneskjöld as a man on a mission--and, I would imagine, earning a lot of commissions.
tsk. assumptions! I think we CAN say that the men in GG are rational, independent and productive; there may also be some in the commune who are such. Hopefully, not for long.
By definition, they are there - in essence - as collectivists; to share with each other, not to be independent beings. Why would a GG-type person ever consider a commune?
I often refer to the gulch as a 'state of mind.
Regarding "gaard/gard" meaning farm, what's the translation for Midgard, which was what the Norse mythological word for the realm of Earth.
Asgard is "Aesir" (god - goes back to 'ahura' in PIE) plus "yard or enclosure".
The other seven worlds of Norse mythology all end in "heim" (home); only Asgard and Midgard are considered enclosures or farms. Hmmm.
Jan
I remember Rand grew up in early years in St. Petersburgh in an area quite frequently over the centuries over run by the Scandanavians though primarily swedes they had the same mythology. Don't know if that's a connection but she was a prolific reader and soaked up knowledge faster than the English language itself
Jan
Also, in Italy, there is a commune "Marotta" a small village for tourists.
Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marotta...
Hillary loves the communes in the Northwest US, where common space is shared, parenting is shared, the individual or "I" does not exist. Truly, a commune would reflect the way the residents in "Anthem" were treated. Someone always rules at some point, but the mindless participants never notice.
Bonus In the Gulch there is no Hillary.
In a commune (as I understand it; I have never lived in one, nor wanted to) things are di
vided up onto equal shares, regardless of how
much effort any particular individuals have put
into producing what is needed.
In the Galt's Gulch of Atlas Shrugged, in-
dividuals support themselves, individually, and
even when someone loans someone else his
car, by custom there is at least a nominal
charge. There is an exchange of effort, not one
incompetent sucking off other competent people.
That depends upon your meaning. The word as spelled has different connotations. http://dictionary.reference.com/brows...
Only #1 of the three options provided in the link I supplied is applicable to Galt's Gulch in the abstract. Here in this online community, the answer to your question is in the reading.
You may wish to be more specific.
I see you have not commented here previously so we have no idea of your knowledge of the books or philosophy... where to begin?
Respectfully,
O.A.
The fork is at the goal. Does each person sublimate to the whole or does each derive their own worth and joy and trade value for value? Disclaimer that I've never lived in either (probably few of us here have.)
As an adjunct, what of artist colonies? Or Taliesin (Frank Lloyd Wright's community/school/cult)? The line isn't always so black and white...
Each individual is responsible for his/her own well-being.
No free lunches.
GG: From each according to his need. To each according to his ability.
In a commune wealth (if any can be obtained) is shared. Communal living must demand action from the individual for the good of the group.
In the Gulch you work for yourself.
In a commune, any innovation or improvements are done only to provide an increased benefit for others, increasing one's productivity only creates opportunity to assist in producing more for others. Few people have the motivation to keep innovating and increasing their own workload consistantly over time solely for the benefit of others.
In GG, a producer produces enough to go around as a medium of trade. Producing more than is useful is waste, as unless it is a commodity or storable good, the resources and time spent producing is a waste. Producing too little is at least waste of one's own time even if higher exchange rates can be had through scarcity.
Innovation and improvement in GG are a driving force, as they directly impact the increased value of at least one's time, if not quality and therefore value of traceable goods.
Additionally;
A Commune is generally formed from a group of like minded people who mainly desire to help each other all the time.
A Galt's Gulch is formed of people who both desire to produce and have the products of their produce valued.
Galt's Gulch would remain, while the Commune would disappear, before long.
a whimper of condescension. -- j
.
I think we CAN say that the men in GG are rational, independent and productive; there may also be some in the commune who are such. Hopefully, not for long.