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  • 17
    Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 2 months ago
    What's discomfiting about this incident is the abuse of anti-terrorist law to indict the two ranchers. There's no rational grounds for the idea that burning underbrush is a terrorist act, but it's so much easier to charge someone with an act of "suspected terrorism" than to waste all that time evidence gathering and submitting it to see if you can get a warrant. The county judge made exactly this point, accusing the Federal government of overstepping its right to charge.

    Connect the dots: creating new rules regarding gun sales that are so vague that it will be easy for the BATF or FBI to get open warrants against anyone the government desires. If you've ever bought a gun, rest assured this new law will be abused to get back at you if the government doesn't like something you've done or said, legal or not. Just one more way to sidestep any pretense of 1st, 2nd, 4th, or 5th amendments rights.

    The American public is sleepwalking its way into an autocratic, socialist police state.
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    • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago
      It was obvious long ago that the government powers assumed in the name of 'anti terrorism' would be exploited by the left, including the nature worshiping viros, against innocent people. As Ayn Rand observed long ago, this country has come out of every war with less freedom and the same is true for the 'war on terrorism'.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 2 months ago
      There are several other aspects of this case that bother me. One is the way the sentence was retroactively increased on appeal. Second is the way the federal government got the land in the first place, without the state's permission as required by Article I, Section 8, next to last clause. Third is that the judge refused to tell the jury what the possible sentence was before they were pressured into rendering a verdict. And finally, the longer picture -- the feds have been fighting this family since at least the 1970s, to try to steal their land.

      I think it is time to do something about all these issues. It's too bad none of the major candidates this year are from those Western states where the feds have seized the vast majority of the land.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
        At the risk of sounding overly redundant. What Constitution? The Patriot Act and now executive order did away with that though there is a thin thin thin patina to keep most people fooled all of the time. It started with the same words as last Thursday nights version.... deleting specifically probable cause and civil rights. "Suspicion of Terrorism" now includes 'suspicion of supporting terrorism? It's doesn't exclude anyone or anything except Miranda Warnings, phone calls, attorney for defense, for that matter for prosecution, trials, judges, sentencing guidelines....length of time to be held in prison,

        Still going to vote for the present list of candidates? All who are office holders voted for all of the above. What constitution?

        Obeyme pissed on it in front of the whole nation. Then among other things embraced and guaranteed the use of martial law. Not the kind where the military is honoring it's oath of office - the kind with knocks in the night. and troops being ordered to fire on citizens.

        Still going to vote for them? 18 voted against two ducked the vote 80 voted for. Time to do something was 2001 and 2002. Too late now.

        How safe do you feel now?

        And we posted it here New Years Eve.
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        • -1
          Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 2 months ago
          Michael, if the only note you can sing is "trying to change the system is futile, let's fight!" I think you would be happier on PrisonPlanet.com than here.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
            No you don't get to twist my words i was talking to a group of people who are now whining when they could have done something besides talk. Take your spin and sit on it. You got what you wanted.No need to blame those of us who did something. So... go change your system and welcome to it.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
      Rationality is less of a requirement than probable cause. Throw all those old ideas out the window. There is no more sidestepping. Can't side step something that doesn't exist and with this new edict it truly does not exist.

      Now the county judge will not be consulted, nor attorney's nor juries.

      Now here's the bright spot the fatal flaw the fly int he ointment. ANYONE can be arrested and disappeared with records of the action. Everyone is DHS is a potential target. Remember history when the Brown Shirts were replaced by the Black Shirts? Congress is not exempt. No matter what they put in the bill. Who would know? Come to think of it if the military were used as stated Obama himself is not exempt. Dumb ass sucker painted his bad self into a corner and the paint doesn't dry.
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  • 11
    Posted by cksawyer 8 years, 2 months ago
    I am just sad that the Bundys and similar characters are involved. It will make it too easy for gov't and its apologists to dismiss, trivialize and demonize this effort at protecting individual freedom and constitutional principles.

    I am also VERY concerned that this is being tagged as domestic terrorism by many mainsteam officials and media. This is a frightening foundation for wholesale violations and violence against vocal libertarian and constitution-defending groups.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Amazing Baltimore and St. Louis (Ferguson) were not domestic terrorism.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 2 months ago
        That's because they were government sponsored.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 2 months ago
          Both local governments did stupid things there, but I believe the BLM uprisings were organized and paid for by Soros through the Ruckus Society.

          Maybe the next time there's a non-Democrat administration, we can get them investigated, and seize his money under RICO!
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          • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 2 months ago
            In both cities, bus loads of rioters were shipped from other areas to add fuel to the fire. In both cases, after the rioters' leadership conferred with the Black House.
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          • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago
            A lot of money other than Sorros' has gone into the viro pressure groups making policy inside the Federal land agencies. It's also not just BLM. It includes US Forest Service, National Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife Service.

            USFWS has also been part of the attack on the Hammonds. The agency is trying to get their private land. Some of the Hammond's land is private and some of it is leased from BLM for grazing. BLM is holding Federal lands under policies that prevent it from ever being claimed as unowned land becoming private property. The viro agenda is to lock up "public lands" as wilderness and eliminating current private property rights.
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    • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago
      What they can't suppress they exploit through distortion. The lack of coverage of the problems caused by the Federal land agencies is much more fundamental than misleading stories focusing on the Bundys. This travesty against the Hammonds has been unfolding for years and it hasn't been mentioned in the media. If the Bundys weren't there they would either not be mentioning it at all or smearing them in some other way. Don't blame it on the Bundys.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
    The government is using force just in order to prove that it can. By choosing a situation in which it had to make up a blatant lie in order to justify its actions, it is saying in no uncertain terms, "We're all-powerful, and what are you going to do about it, little man?"
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 2 months ago
    Since November 8, 2008, I've wondered what would be the precipitating incident that would start the shooting. I doubt the Hammond issue will be it, but it is a building block toward the inevitable.
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  • Posted by Lucky 8 years, 2 months ago
    What would the progressivist state of Oregon do?
    Perhaps imitate the Swedish model. When there was a major riot by the religion of peace the police chief said he wanted to keep clear and do as little as possible. When the flames died down, the owners of burnt-out cars got parking tickets.

    Back to Hank, as Technocracy says, get the truth out.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Amazing sounds like Baltimore. Let's see of Obama takes the same take of giving them space.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 2 months ago
        Obama is putting on a pearly white dental display for smiling from ear to ear.
        He thinks the foot-on-neck ecoNazi socialism on display in Oregon is a happy thing.
        Marxist examples are being made by a father and son serving time.
        How sweet if a terrorist militia should be gunned down for their refusenik radicalism.
        Of course he will make like he does not want that to happen to those uppity white scum.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 2 months ago
    We spend a LOT of time out west.

    I conclude that there is something in/on the land that the Feds have used as collateral OR have plans to use and mine for nefarious purposes.

    The Feds view the Hammonds as expendable and that they have no "rights" to what is theirs.

    The mere fact that our government has become this detached from reality and reason is why a philosophy of reason is needed here and is indeed on the rise in our culture.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
      It's called control. BLM doesn't do squat except keep land set aside for the pot growers now they have no further need of protection BLMs focus is keeping themselves alive.

      They used to be easy to work witih. We had property that bordered what was called O&C land for Oregon & California Railway. RR got a section on each side of the track right of way IF they built but they didn't. That was state land at one time and our piece held the original Crescent City to Jacksonville stage route. We used to, with permission, cut out the dead timber for firewood and to cut down on fire hazard.

      The new generation came in and stopped that but they didn't mind coming in from the other end and loading up all the split cords of wood in their private pickups then they wanted to come in the other way but the house was built dead in the way. There explanation was and i quote."We are federal we can go anywhere for any reason." We padlocked the gate after that. The years I was there they did nothing to alleviate fire danger nor keep the various diseases from killing the trees.

      I recall their HQ in Medford. Built to look like a bunker with defensive fire slits. for windows. That was their attitude. Funny part is SPRINT bought up the old O&C right of way and used the approved communications rights to put in Fiber Optics. That was on the other side of that section. BLM serves no useful purpose but getting into squabbles with other agencies on who controls what land where. One of the reasons the feds don't know how much they own. Two or three agencies claiming rights to the same acreage. Another reason not to live their anymore.

      It's about budget money, control, and retaining a feudal hold without patents of nobility.
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  • Posted by JoleneMartens1982 8 years, 2 months ago
    I hate this situation and fear for the lives of these men now labeled terrorist. What a ridiculous time we live in. It is very sad, how this year has begun. I watched a movie called 2016 back in 2012, maybe 13. I believe the man hit the nail on the head! And may God have mercy on us all.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 8 years, 2 months ago
    Of course the Oregon ranchers are terrorists. They oppose the government. It reminds me of a story of the King asking his top general how the war was going in the colonies. “Not well,” was the reply, “the bastards are shooting back at us.”
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  • Posted by dukem 8 years, 2 months ago
    The progressive state of Oregon has taken a stand. The government is right and the protesters are wrong, of course. Most land in Oregon is government owned, and you may go on to it with permission only. Of course.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
    Probably possibly maybe whatever only means perhaps a hundred million spare parts. It is not a force to be reckoned with but at best a group of free cells to be dealt with. Now if the current military upholds it's oath of office. Different story. They have more than enough probable cause.

    50-50 odds they will or they won't.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
    domestic terrorism is the name they give to efforts to oppose Obama and his cronies. They can use the NSA and the forfeiture laws to rob people of their assets in order to eliminate opposition.

    Obama will have to crush them in his arrogance. They will all die, along with some of the stupid federal soldiers (as they should).
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    • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 8 years, 2 months ago
      Yes, but there are now probably in excess of 100 million armed Americans - a force larger than any the federal government can muster (this point was also made in one of the Federalist Papers, sorry, I forget which one). But I just read where one of Obama's provisions in his gun control executive orders (excuse me, "gun SAFETY actions") is to beef up the staff that supports NICS background checks - an admission that gun sales are up still more. This reminds me of a classic "arms race" between nations. In this case, its between the People of the USA and the federal government.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
        The people should always be stronger than the government in order to keep the government in check. That was the purpose of the 2nd amendment I think.
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  • Posted by Technocracy 8 years, 2 months ago
    Hank would get the truth out. Use his skills at infiltrating networks in aid of that. Like JG taking over the airwaves for that powerful speech in AS.
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