Robert Buderi's The Invention that Changed the World: How a Small Group of Radar Pioneers Won the Second World War and Launched a Technical Revolutions concludes, "The atomic bomb only ended the war. Radar won it." The History Channel produced a documentary in the 1990s based on Ruderi's book.

Of course, Stalin wanted to be in the game and grab some territory. But he did follow the Yalta plan, including the timeline for attacking Japan. At Yalta, neither FDR or Churchill could count on the Manhattan Project, so they did ask for Stalin's help. At Potsdam, Truman had already signed the order to drop the bombs and Stalin knew about it, but everyone played the game and pretended that Russia's help was still needed. As a result, there was Korea...
But of an interesting side note, would be to study the real blitzkrieg achieved by the Soviet armies through the supposedly impassable Mongolian desert and an annihilation of the Japanese army within less than a month over terrain that had no roads or communications.

They would have had to bring the Fleet into the Channel to fight off the invasion. That would be have been the most vulnerable position for the ships. British ships in 1940 had very limited anti-aircraft armament and all except for the battleships would not have been able to take more than a few bombs. With limited space to maneuver and no place to hide, the toll would have been high. The Luftwaffe, of course, would have lost a lot of planes attacking the Fleet, but they would have been replaced much faster than ships.

You all are more astute historians than me. I am familiar with outlines, but not details. But my lack of education has never stopped me from expressing an opinion, and I have no fear of being wrong or being corrected. I'll take the benefit of your knowledge and you may benefit from my ancient life experiences.

Interesting idea. Where I stumble in this scenario is how the Brits trade most of their fleet for the Luftwaffe. In what way? Can you expand on that a bit?

And the other major tool in the arsenal: We had decrypted both the Japanese military and diplomatic codes. Midway.

As in Hitler's insistence in using the ME 262 as a fast bomber rather than a fast fighter when clouds of bombers were over Germany.

It is a common theme that Hitler was his own worst enemy. From a series of successes, Germany's fortunes quickly spiraled into a comedy of errors.

However, the Battle of Britain was as Churchill put it "similar to Waterloo in that it was closely run affair." Also, "Never has so much been owed, by so many, to so few."

What makes WWII history so fascinating is the complex tapestry of timing, technology, politics, personalities, and decisions. Had Britain not developed both radar and decoded Ultra, the outcome just may have been different. But the question that has been posed here is had Britain lost the air war by say, August 15,1940, what would be the outcome?

It is likely Hitler would have proceeded with Operation Sea Lion and would have begun a cross channel invasion. It was being readied to go. Part of that plan was to use the U-boats to severely hamper the large British Navy in the tight confines of the Channel.

If Britain fell, so would the Navy fall into the hands of the Nazi's. A truly global influence. The "unsinkable air craft carrier" that served for the Allies to bomb the heartland of Germany would have been lost. Egypt and the British controlled mid-eastern oil fields would have fallen to the Nazi's. Churchill was on the death list.

Hitler could have turned his attention then to Russia without the much feared war on two fronts. He would not have had to make the dash to the Caucasus oil fields. He could have taken Russia without delaying the invasion to save the Italians from their Greek debacle. Nor had to save the Italians in North Africa.

db, you have posed one huge "What If" parallel time track here.

On another note, I had the extreme good fortune to see the Battle of Britain Lace. It is a huge woven tapestry commemorating the air war over Britain that took a gaggle of old ladies nearly two years to sew after the war was over. In 2005, it was on display in the Royal Australian Air Force Museum in Bull Creek, just south of Perth, Australia.

Germany was nowhere close to making an atomic bomb. Of course, the Allies didn't really know that for sure at the time. With the brain drain due to the Holocaust and limited resources, Germany had no chance of achieving the Manhattan Project.

Here's an uncommon analysis of this scenario: Without radar, the Luftwaffe would have achieved air superiority over most of Britain and certainly over the invasion area. That probably would have prompted Hitler to invade. As in a chess game, the British would have had little choice but to trade most of their fleet for the Luftwaffe. Should the Germans have succeeded in the invasion after that, with the remnants of their air force, they would have been bogged down against British resistance in-land. With more and more German divisions and every available aircraft sent to Britain, while much of the German war machinery being on the bottom of the Channel, Stalin would have certainly attacked through Poland and Romania and would have been in Berlin before any German division could have been shipped back. As a "liberator" of Europe, Stalin would have collected every European country into his fold, probably including prostrate and demolished Britain. It would have been a different world, indeed. Recall that Hitler recognized Stalin's plans for invasion only in early 1941, by which time Stalin would have already ruled Europe.

If you go back to the originals for the period, the Japanese cabinet's decision to surrender (under Hirohito' prodding) was as much a result of the tremendous loss of territory and an unparalleled speed of Russian armies as from the atomic bombs. Most of Japan's army strength was in China and Manchuria and the Russian armies were shredding them.

At Agincourt, it wasn't so much English technology or skill that won, but poor French leadership that lost. The French were over-confident and in search of quick individual victories and ransoms and created a stampede that destroyed them. With Napoleon being perhaps the only exception, France seems to have always been short on leaders.

I've often thought that Hitler's obsession with Russia was his downfall. He spent so much of his resources, (men, money, materials, etc), that by the time Ike had built up enough to go after Europe combined with Britain's and the US massive bombing of his industrial base, Germany was basically done.

I think without radar and sonar as well, Britain would certainly have been lost.and it would have changed the entire conduct of the war. Besides everything else, WWII was a war of invention and inventions that drove the industrial/technical world for the next 20 or 30 years.

The biggest handicap on the Soviet Union was its own history. Stalin deliberately starved several million Ukrainians during 1939-40 by declaring their privately grown food "surplus" and selling it abroad. If the Nazis had had the common sense to treat those people as allies, they might very well have won that part of the war, and it would have given them the Caspian oil fields. I believe we still would have taken France back, but the Nazis would have still owned a country when the war ended, and the Soviets might not have. It might even have led to the Nazis getting the Bomb before us.

Yes...and the "proper" use of tech plays a part, as well.

Many American soldiers, in the Revolutionary War, had rifled versus smoothbore firearms, like the British. However, our tactics played an immense part. We utilized snipers and shot British officers from their mounts....an unfathomable manner of warfare to the Brits, which assisted in our winning that war.

The problem is...tech, used poorly, can also hasten the users loss of a battle. If you rely too heavily upon your technology and not enough on tactics...you will surely suffer.

Yes, Radar again

Do you think those two could have gotten along indefinitely?
I've been convinced for years that those two would have gone to war after they World War 2 conquered the world.
Der vorld ist only for der master race! When Nazis chanted, "Today Europe! Tomorrow the world!--I'm sure they meant all of it."
Italians don't look Teutonic either.

I think that this is an actual example of tech shortening the time, not of tech making the difference between winning and loosing. If you imagine the Colonists having the same impetus and population pressures that happened in the real world, but take away their gunpowder, I think that the ranks of cavalry with six-shooters would have been replaced by ranks of Welsh bowmen...and the same results would have happened.

The 'battle tech' of an organized military unit, even with comparable weaponry, would have won. Face it: the French armored cavalry were considered by the people of that time to be higher tech than the English at Crecy and Agincourt. It is also theorized that the organized fighting of the North, in addition to its far superior logistics, were what resulted in Northern victory even against the brilliant generalship of the South. In the cases of Crecy, Agincourt, and the South, those armies set a higher priority on individual accomplishment than 'marching in ranks'. But - much as I (a fan of the heroic) hate to say it - marching in ranks can win battles. Not always, but most of the time.

Jan

Russia is a very emotional country. I have confirmed via my own research (and discussions) that Russian troops lept out of airplanes...without parachutes. As long as they landed in snowbanks, they apparently had a decent survival rate (and Russia could not afford parachutes). They actually DID this. Hard for me to imagine. The German response? Paint bare dirt fields with white paint.

Any army that can do this can hold for a very long time.

Jan

100 octane fuel also helped in the battle of Britain...the NAZI's didnt have it.
In all discussions about the Battle of Britian everyone always forgets that even if succesful the NAZI's would have had to invade England via the channel. The royal navy would have wreaked havoc with the invasion transport.