Call me crazy... hug a tree

Posted by deleted 8 years, 4 months ago to Science
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I had a simple thought on climate science. It's a basic equation. More carbon dioxide leads to a higher partial pressure of that same gas in the atmosphere. A higher concentration of carbon dioxide means there is more fuel for chlorophyll-containing plants to "breathe". Therefore, given that soil nutrients are constant or improving, more plants will grow and consume this excess CO2, producing more oxygen molecules and balancing the carbon equation. Thus, foliage will save the planet, after all. Then the added green color absorbs more of the sunlight, cooling the temperatures down. Call me crazy... Hug a tree.


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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 4 months ago
    That's the asaninity of the global warming argument in a nutshell. They won't even look at the history of the planet, where only a few tens of thousands of years ago (before the last major Ice Age), the planet was awash in significantly higher levels of CO2 and O2 than today, and the planet's plant life flourished.

    Now one thing we do have to be aware of are the algae blooms in the oceans. While I like plants, I also like my healthy animal ecosystems. Algae blooms threaten millions of square miles of habitat and fishing.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 4 months ago
      Heck, back during the Jurassic when my buddies packed up to run down humongous giants like Diplodocus, grasslands and jungles were pumping out CO2 like crazy.
      Not to mention all the gases a ton of smoking volcanoes belched out!
      Despite extinction--that taking an asteroid strike--I saw a paleontologist on TV call dinos the most successful critters ever for all the millions of years we survived.

      http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=d...

      Did this big guy have an in general prob with high CO2 levels and smoking volcanoes?
      I think~NOT!
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  • Posted by Watcher55 8 years, 4 months ago
    Climate is rather more complicated than that. However you have put your finger on the issue: the effect of our being net producers of CO2 depends not primarily on how much CO2 we put out, but the nature, direction and strength of the feedback loops that further control the amount of CO2 that stays in the atmosphere, and the resulting temperature changes.

    The dirty secret of climate science is that so much of it is based on computer models, and those models assume positive feedback loops - when in fact we have very little idea of the truth of the matter.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 8 years, 4 months ago
    I just read that researchers (eg. government funded wonks) have discovered that plant growth and CO2 usage is far less than estimated.

    Gee...wouldn't have anything to do with the release of that phony Paris Accord, would it?
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 4 months ago
    I suppose we should all be concerned over the "tragedy" of forest starting to reclaim the Negev desert due to the rise in carbon dioxide. It would be curious to see if the Sahara is experiencing a similar forest creep.
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  • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 4 months ago
    While we're at it, let's plant a host of fruit and nut trees. In addition to the aesthetics, there's the nutrition,
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      most of the hoopla involves very very low competently predicted range changes. the impending mini ice age for example will wipe out the maybe is maybe isn't warming trend. About 1.5 C over 200 or 300 years.

      What's it all mean? At worst. Canada grows more winter wheat. The US grows lots of bananas and Mexico gets year round mangos. What's the problem?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 4 months ago
    Yes. We always hear about the need to reduce burning stuff, but I wonder if controlling forest fires or reducing deforestation could put a dent in the problem. It seems plausible since CO2 levels drop during the northern hemisphere's summer b/c most of the land masses are there. So there's nothing crazy about it. Hug a tree, indeed.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      Well there is no more timber industry worth mentioning. When it was shut down we had more trees in the country than at any time in history. So deforestation is now a matter of what Russia is doing to Siberia.
      - ac
      My daughter pointed out some thirty years ago that the amount of acres being cleared in the Amazon equaled the entire land area about every year and a half - according to the tree huggers - so it must be a desert by now too late too bad so sad...do you think it's those blankety blank canadanadians?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
    to.... FFA Since your post on taxing the sun disappeared I'll comment here...no it's not in trash or spam this time..


    California did try to tax the wind a number of years ago. Actually it was Oakland Representative "Red" Ron Dellums who noticed the sailboats while crossing the bay bridge and decided they weren't paying their fair share of fuel tax and anti pollution tax and decided to do a tax based on square footage of the sails. It was turned down with much amusement in the Hallowed Halls of Congress DC. But these days i doubt that would have stopped it. The joke was the sport had just been applauded for keeping pollution down. Red by the way did not have Red hair. he was the other Communist in office along with Bernie Sanders.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
    Boat or land you will have to retrain and reequip yourself even for such simple things as cooking and washing up. Along with Solar and wind energy which produce together a third element is gas with CNG preferable if you can get it otherwise LPG. Tasks that take much energy in short periods of time such as ovens or even heating the ever efficient pressure cooker expend less from gas so it fills a niche. Heating water is made possible by coiling or laying a network of piping just inside the roof of the house. The water is preheated and then brought to a boil by other means or on it's own suffices for showers and laundry purposes. Everything that can be converted to 12 volt is and that takes time and another investment.. The joy is when done and the amortization years start....the bills iyou are now paying for fuel drop dramatically. Still such things as Air conditioning are available if the house is weatherproofed and laid out to take advantage of the sun in some areas and protected in others. For a 30 -40 foot boat it's much simpler. Space dictates what you can and cannot have. Day temperatures dictate doing some jobs at night whee the need is home made light for reading and other such chores. cooking is done in advance during the cool of the night then quickly heated if necessary but cold meals tend to take over during summer months.

    Lots of books on the subjects but try touring some cruising type sail boats in a local marina....you will not need the corrosion resistance we require but the ideas and technology are the same...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 4 months ago
    True, the more carbon available to plants will make them heather; but the day/oxygen, night/co2 cycle is pretty much a wash...so more trees or heather trees will not effect the climate. Carbon has little to do with it directly...more of a symptom or reaction than a cause. Carbon is only .04% of our atmosphere, but it is an electrical dispersent and a coolant in our ionosphere. And no...I wouldn't call you crazy.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
    Without intervention from crazy governments, burning of fossil fuels will inevitably decrease due to higher costs. The efficiency of burning pretty much has reached its maximum level. Things like solar and wind energy, as well as nuclear will eventually take over, if something even better is allowed to flourish free of government influences.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
      I agree with you, but on a longer range than you indicate. Solar and wind do not provide any discernible amount of power yet.

      Wind, per Matt Ridley:
      "To the nearest whole number, the percentage of the world's energy that comes from wind turbines today is: zero. Despite the regressive subsidy (pushing pensioners into fuel poverty while improving the wine cellars of grand estates), despite tearing rural communities apart, killing jobs, despoiling views, erecting pylons, felling forests, killing bats and eagles, causing industrial accidents, clogging motorways, polluting lakes in Inner Mongolia with the toxic and radioactive tailings from refining neodymium, a ton of which is in the average turbine - despite all this, the total energy generated each day by wind has yet to reach half a per cent worldwide."

      "Solar provides about a third of one per cent of world energy."

      Eventually, nuclear, solar power, and innovative power sources will surpass fossil fuel, but we have enough of the last-mentioned for the next couple hundred years - plenty of time to innovate.

      Jan
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
        Interesting. I have had little interest in wind or solar here in Las Vegas for my house, due to its cost and the hassle of dealing with the county here. By the time you manage the storage devices needed to actually use the energy when the wind isnt blowing or the sun isnt shining, its just not convenient unless you want to live in a cold dark house at night !!
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        • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
          In LA: I am interested in solar because it makes me at least guardedly independence of the grid in emergencies (windstorms, earthquakes). If it can keep my fridge powered, and the modem up, I can use my notebook PC (and other lights for general reading/ seeing). So it is worthwhile for me (and for you in LV) as a marginal gain.

          Jan
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 4 months ago
            I wonder what happens when the power goes out. Does the solar just pump electricity into an open grid if you dont happen to be using all it produces? Elon Musk has those battery systems to store it up, but they are like $5k each.
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            • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
              If you get the 'usual' installation of solar, it is worse than that: ALL of the power you generate always goes out into the grid - if the grid goes down, you are SOL. You power usage is calculated arithmetically by the power company, and your input of power taken into consideration. Now, it is possible to have an installation that powers your house first, then sends the remainder of the power out to the grid, but no one does that. The only way you can have your house powered first and then the grid powered second is to get the battery. The battery will not power the grid if the grid goes down.

              Jan
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              • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago
                Exactly. The cost of power storage has been a significant economic hurdle since the first PV systems, and that hasn't changed. Elon Musk hasn't solved anything in this area. As you said, most solar installs are not intended as off the grid solutions. If the grid works, then they are a benefit to the owner, and with government transfer payments they can be economic for the people who own them ... but everyone else pays extra to make up for the government's meddling.
                For emergencies a petro (gasoline, diesel, propane) powered generator is a much more economic, and reliable solution.
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                • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
                  Not in Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Even without a battery: In the summer, I would expect to be able to power my house all day from my solar cells.

                  When I looked into getting a powered generator, the amount of fuel I would be able to keep on hand would power the generator for about 3 days, unless I got a big tank (which is also expensive).

                  I have read articles that indicate that solar is pretty worthless in non-desert areas...Britain was specifically mentioned.

                  Jan, scant biomass but lots o'sun
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago
    Still searching for a live christmas tree (complete with root ball) to decorate and plant after the holidays. Probably settle for a Norfolk Pine and a few wreaths made from throw aways at HD. Have to build that dome before the pine gets too big though ;^)
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      Try Google....takes about five seconds.

      Amazon has Norfolk Pine for $31.09 This year it's table top size , Next year bigger and after a while you got one for the National Christmas Tree.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 4 months ago
        I only buy live plants when I can see the goods locally. Haven't found one in my area yet.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
          Ask around the nursery operations...A lot of trees are brought in from major production areas where they grow faster. Usually three to seven years. The small ones are the thinnings from the larger ones. It's a double or triple rotation and a very profitable business as now the crews come in and do all the cutting, wrapping and loading. Ask about getting more than one starter and your local nursery might order it up on speculation.
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    Posted by james464 8 years, 4 months ago
    I am more interested in whether the tree is created or here by accident. Riddle me this.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 4 months ago
      Well, the one in front of my house, I planted so it's not here by accident. You seem to be hung up on the issue that the entirety of existence is not readily deducible from the evidence of your senses and your ability to reason. Why is this significant?

      There is a real universe. It exists, it has certain characteristics. Perception and reason can be applied to understand it. The fact that we don't have perfect knowledge of it does not, in any way, negate that fact or the value of logic and reason.

      Let's take a thought experiment: The planet Hackned orbits a small sun in the Andromeda Galaxy. On Hackned there is an ocean containing a fish, which we will call Fred. Can we reason the existence of Fred from the evidence of our senses and our reason? No. Our senses do not give us evidence of the nature of planets in the Andromeda galaxy -- although we can perceive the galaxy itself. If we go there we might, in fact see Fred -- and even eat him for dinner. Then our senses and reason will answer the question of Fred's existence: "Not anymore."
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