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  • Posted by kevinw 5 years, 2 months ago
    I, for one, fully intend to keep driving over all those beautiful Colorado mountain roads and trails until I find that Gulch. Maybe I'll ask him when I find it.
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 5 years, 2 months ago
    perhaps you assume incorrectly, and he did drive it outside the Valley.
    perhaps it amused him to buy the sticker [the cost would be negligible, as old as it was] and never use it. The idea amuses me.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
      Did they stickers back then. For sure when the book was published no freeways except maybe New York to Boston. The time to drive across country in a Bronco came out in 1966 AS published in 1957

      Maybe it was in the movie version?
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  • Posted by not-you 5 years, 2 months ago
    I could barely watch Part III. It came across as a chick-flick melodrama.

    Best thing about Part II was Jason Beghe's portray of Hank Rearden--exactly as I had always imagined the man.

    Part I apparently had the best budget, screenwriters, and actors--because it showed!

    Best scene from all three movies: https://youtu.be/_iHRJ4s9EtY
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    • Posted by $ winterwind 5 years, 2 months ago
      I'm curious - had you read the book before you saw the movie[s]? Those of us who had held such strong positions on visuals, as well as "what was important" to include.

      I went into it knowing it would not be the book and wondering what it would be, and impressed with as well as grateful to the makers, who DID.
      Do I love every bit and piece? no. does that make any of the movies, or all of them, worthless? NO!

      I dislike the mixture of opinion, emotion, analysis and investment that enters almost every discussion of the movies. Since I have you in front of me as an example, this is what I mean: "The BEST THING ....EXACTLY AS I HAD IMAGINED." [emph.mine]
      I can say "the thing I liked the best" or "the place where I think the movie ran closest to the book" or even "when Dagny and John met in the basement, on the "safe" that held the motor, was more what I had wanted it to be than I had imagined it could be" - all are my best attempt to give a true & valid response that is on only one of the "levels" that any artistic work has.
      In discussion of a work so important, it's best to keep the discussion as "clean" as possible.

      AND what does your answer have to do with the question?
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      • Posted by not-you 5 years, 2 months ago
        @winterwind.

        First, I had read the book more than once before I saw the movies. I've also read most of Ms. Rand's other works both fiction and non-fiction.

        I watched the movies knowing that they would not BE THE BOOK [your phrase].. Movies are seldom adequately able to convey the thoughts and feelings of characters with the same clarity as the original author nor do time and medium allow movies to include every detail and nuance of a book. But a comparably lesser production is still a comparably lesser production.

        Second, what you choose to like and dislike are your prerogatives. How you choose to convey your likes and dislikes are also your prerogatives. I reserve the same prerogatives and will express them MY way. You are welcome to take what you like and leave the rest. I do that all the time.

        I'm not sure what you mean by a, "clean" discussion. But I'm also not particularly interested in reading your explanation either because even if I did, you can make book that I'd take what I like and leave the rest.

        "AND what does your answer have to do with the question?"

        ....Probably about as much as the snarky comment to rainman suggesting that he might need to read the book again [implication=shallowness and lack of reading comprehension] and then pointing out that her child was an extra in the movie [ elitist insider?] I mean as long as there is leeway to drag in extraneous facts revolving around a specific question, shouldn't that privilege be extended equally?

        I've spent a long life doing important work. I've done my part to save the f-ing world one person at a time. I relax now. I've discarded my cape and tri-cornered cap. I make bad jokes. I use omnibus words, cliches, homespun humor, stereotypes, and generalizations...among all kinds of other mental and semantic sins against logic and exposition.

        If it bothers you ignore me. But never, ever try to tell me how to think or what to say.
        .
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
          Maybe we should leave it at- they made the movie using what they had at hand and within the budget. The whole gulch scenes were ridiculous really- license plates, cars? if it was so hard to get into in an expensive plane, getting cars and refrigerators and furniture would have been very difficult except if there were roads. But the existence of a road makes the gulch ridiculously vulnerable. Just didnt make sense.
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  • Posted by khalling 5 years, 2 months ago
    if that's what you took from the movie rainman, I suggest you watch it again. Catch my daughter at Galt's dinner party.

    Besides, how do you know how he left and entered the Gulch?
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 2 months ago
      To respond in kind...is that all you took from my question?

      Do you have any rational explanation for him actually registering a motor vehicle with the Colorado DMV?

      And regardless of whether or not he registered the vehicle with the DMV, why would he risk being involved in a traffic accident? There could be rock slides, or washouts caused by rain, or he could get snowbound, or he could have car trouble. Or some small town cop with a thing for anyone not from his small town could pull him over, just because.

      Why would he risk any of that by driving?

      But to answer your question, No. I don’t know how he came and went every time. But my assumption is by airplane.

      I have to assume that he flew from New York to Afton, Utah, then from there back to the Gulch. It seems to me that having his plane in New York is the only way he could have gotten to Utah ahead of her. Also, the idea that he flew to Afton from the Gulch and then drove to New York is too absurd to consider. And he didn’t drive Dagny out at the end of June; he flew her out.

      If by nothing other than circumstantial evidence, I think it’s logical and reasonable to assume he didn’t drive his car outside of the Gulch.
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      • 15
        Posted by sdesapio 5 years, 2 months ago
        RE: "Do you have any rational explanation for him actually registering a motor vehicle with the Colorado DMV?"
        You have to remember that the Gulch residents didn't live in the Gulch full time from the beginning. It was only a one month a year vacation. They all had lives, jobs, apartments, etc., in the outside world. They didn't build their vehicles in the Gulch. They drove them into the Gulch from the outside world. The vehicles of course were registered.

        RE: "...why would he risk being involved in a traffic accident? There could be rock slides, or washouts caused by rain, or he could get snowbound, or he could have car trouble. Or some small town cop with a thing for anyone not from his small town could pull him over, just because. Why would he risk any of that by driving?"
        Risk what? Gulch residents were always hiding in plain site when they were in the outside world. Other than Ragnar's crew, they weren't criminals. They just refused to give the best of themselves to the world any longer. And it wouldn't have mattered if they got pulled over. They were normal people when in the outside world. Galt was a simple rail worker for TT for 12 years.

        RE: "I don’t know how he came and went every time. But my assumption is by airplane."
        The correct assumption is that if they could mask the valley from the air, they could probably just as easily mask it from the ground. Long trips, plane. Short trips, car.

        RE: "I think it’s logical and reasonable to assume he didn’t drive his car outside of the Gulch."
        I'm sure they did local supply runs once in a while. No big deal. They weren't personally hiding from anything. It was their vacation spot that they were hiding, not themselves necessarily.

        EDIT: A statement for clarity.
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        • Posted by $ 5 years, 2 months ago
          Makes sense.

          And after I posted, I remembered that Francisco drove to Dagny's place after the tunnel disaster, and Ragnar was seen in a beat up car with a souped up motor as he's talking to Rearden.

          If D'Anconia and Danneskjold have cars outside, why not Galt?

          Isn't the first time I saw something that wasn't there, and probably won't be the last.

          Thanks for the feedback.
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        • Posted by JCLanier 5 years, 2 months ago
          Scott: Your statements are thorough.
          However, it could be that rainman was referring to the fact that when "renowned", in the public eye (and under government scrutiny) individuals mysteriously vanished that an all out manhunt was instigated by the government officials and rewards placed on their heads. Could it be that rainman questions this point of being excessively vulnerable if stopped by officials or someone looking for the reward $$?

          Some "renowned", like Francisco, did not officially disappear and were not wanted (until very end) so being stopped while driving, etc., a moot point. Others like Ragnar were wanted by the government officials for crimes against the State and would have to travel incognito (someone else's name and car registration). But as time went on the government cracked down on "disappearing producers", hence they could not freely come and go, driving or not, unless under an assumed identity in case they were questioned for documents.

          That brings us to Galt... the audacity of Rand, and therefore Galt, was ingeniously portrayed in his "hiding in plain site", even while keeping his own name. Who would have ever imagined or believed it to be true had he been actually stopped by any official. But nonetheless a pronounced risk had he been driving and intercepted.

          I think that rainman needs to view this in the time it was written, pre-computers and non interconnecting agencies much less able to track down vehicles and connect the dots like we have today. So the reality of this happening would have been greatly reduced at that time.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
          They flew in and out. Dagny chased his plane in, crashed, stayed the month, then he gave her a ride out on his plane as I recall or maybe Sanders had fixed it by that time.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
          masking entry by air was explainable. masking entry on a road is not explainable in my opinion. Plus, there are other people with cars, trucks, etc. that could find the road and just drive on it to the gulch and blow the whole secrecy thing. Remember the government at one point was big time into finding where the movers and shakers were going.
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  • Posted by gafisher 5 years, 2 months ago
    The question seems like a thinly veiled complaint about the movie. I can think of several answers, beginning with "why would he bother to take it off."
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  • Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 2 months ago
    Even if John Galt never left the Gulch with his bronco. A license plate is effective protective coloration for anyone that wanders into the area.

    Not having any plate would be far more attention grabbing. Whereas having the plate, a viewer thinks, ok from Colorado, no big deal.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 2 months ago
    I can only assume John Galt had to first drive his Bronco into the Gulch and never thought to bother with taking the license plate off.
    If he did think about it, maybe he like to show folks where he hailed from.
    Or maybe he liked his state's motto on the plate. For example, Tennessee is "The Volunteer State."
    I don't really know. Old Dino just felt moved to speculate.
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  • Posted by $ nickursis 5 years, 2 months ago
    Just to put a different viewpoint on this, this same type of discourse and excitement has come up in the Star Trek community with both the JJ movies and current efforts like Axanar and Pacific201. People get specific concepts in their heads as they read/listen to a book, and then watch the visualization of it, and have seemingly hard times meshing it all together. They then begine to question very speciofic items and ask why was this that, what was up with this thing, etc. I have found it is usually an expressionof their specific interpretation and an effort to make it mesh with something not quite the same. If they really liked the book, they then have specific expectations, which do not mesh with what can be done with budgets and locations and actors available. Starship Troopers was a good example of just how a great book with a deep message can be turned on it's head, and I lost all my expectations of books and movies meshing. Too many variables come in to play. And some people get very passionately involved to the point of absurd details.
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  • Posted by ycandrea 5 years, 2 months ago
    What does it matter? There were a lot of things I didn't like about the movie either, like the very old Dagnar and Francisco, but the message was still there, kind of. Why does the license plate mean so much to you?
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
    Not a stupid question at all. Why would gulchers want colorado license plates at all? For being such a hidden place, how did they get the cars, refrigerators, building supplies etc INTO the gulch in the first place without ANYONE knowing?? A real gulch would be a bit more primitive, and I thought the movie people just ran out of money to build more reasonable sets. How would you get the gas to such a place in quantities needed to run cars? And were there actually roads into the valley? If so, no government officials found them? Didnt make sense to me.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
      didn't we just answer that. Broncos started in 1966 AS published in 1957 where did he get a Bronco. Must have been in the movie script.
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      • Posted by term2 5 years, 2 months ago
        artistic license and running out of money were the driving factors. There was an episode of breaking bad called something like "fly", where walter white chased around a fly for most of the episode. I wondered why they did that. The series creator Gilligan was interviewed later about that, and he said they ran out of money at one point and needed a very cheap to product episode. And here I had thought there was some deep meaning in that episode that I had just missed...... stupid me.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
          A Swatter?

          they couldn't afford a swatter in props department. just think of the possibilities. Bruce Lee method, Jack Bauer method. The creative mind must have boggled and gone agog!
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  • Posted by ChestyPuller 5 years, 2 months ago
    The License Plate is needed in any society...it makes YOUR vehicle different from the other 2,100 to 10,000 built.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
      So does our government name make us different from 320 million others but I'll keep using my street name anyway.
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      • Posted by ChestyPuller 5 years, 2 months ago
        Your Social Security # is your Federal Name, not State, actually Social Security is not mandatory just ask any public teacher, Fire fighter, Police Officer or anyone living in Puerto Rico [Fed income tax as well].

        Now back to the License plate, in this case it is only as a distinguisher not as a registration IMHO
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
          Never been in the military or a government employee? Never used a financial institution? They are not on your passport or passport card or DL openly. Check the little gold chip. All State ID And DL cards must comply with the federal regulations the gold chip has a lot of good stuff and room to add more.


          In the shipping industry we had the forerunner Transport Workers Identification Card. I had a chance to see the contents of the chip. It did not have underwear size. But it did have fingerprints, blood type and a space for DNA....and like the story on the 100 bill strips - could be detected.

          As the song goes....It's Just A Matter of Time.

          You mght want to check definition of mandatory and go read REAL ID Act. If one of those you mentioned doesn't want to invest in a chip reader that's their choice. You don't get one.


          Sincerely,

          xxx-xx-xxxx
          AKA
          Michael Aarethun

          I wanted something more snazzy like the folks in Anthem. I feel cheated.
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          • Posted by ChestyPuller 5 years, 2 months ago
            I was in the Marine's, an elected Offical and a School Teacher. You do not need an SS# for banking or loans, you can use a TIN#. A S.S.# is the number FOR SOCIAL SECURITY...Guess why its called a Social Security Number.
            Yes it can be used for several other things to make it easier for them.

            I understand the meaning's of 'Mandatory', 'Misunderstood' and 'misused'.

            While it is true that most American's misunderstand the Social Security and Federal Income tax...I do not.

            I suggest you study up on the Social Security matter and remove yourself from those that are lacking in the knowledge needed to understand your rights as a citizen of the republic.

            I wish you well in your studies...we need more people of knowledge to stop this slide down the slope we are currently on.
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  • Posted by Tuner38 5 years, 2 months ago
    Easy answer. John Galt being the man who would look ahead and provide for all contingencies, He might have to leave the gulch and this shows preparedness.
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  • Posted by cjferraris 5 years, 2 months ago
    I'm going to assume that he knows the adage that most people don't. A tax is a fine for doing well, and a fine is a tax for being stupid. As he would rather pay a tax for being productive than paying a stupid tax, of course, he would abide by the laws and work to change those that were unjust. Also, I'm sure the Gulch would be located where the laws were most favorable to the members of the Gulch.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 2 months ago
      A taxis a fine for succeeding and a fine is a tax for failure - or at least getting caught at it.

      As I recall they had their own laws. In our case....hmmmmmmm maybe the gulch was allegorical,
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