OMG!
LOL!

That stinks, David. But Yaron Brook, the executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute, grew up with socialist parents. Imagine becoming a finance lecturer and then one of the biggest Objectivists of our time after that kind of upbringing! It isn't easy, but every time you choose to be rational over collectivist, you are making it that much easier for the next choice to be the right one too.

I recently told a friend why religionists are wrong and I would not support them philosophically. To which he replied that's why religion is separate from philosophy. I had to describe to him the difference between religious and religionist, why the two are separate from each other, the one being a belief system and the other being a belief system imposed politically. It takes a special kind of friend who is willing to listen to reason. We all need more of those in our life.

VetteGuy, to be honest, I would not mind your lifestyle either. But it is important that you know there are outlets for like-minded individuals to come together and discuss the issues. For example, Facebook has an Atlas Shrugged page which regularly posts quotes from Ayn Rand and other Objectivists where comments can be left. It is public, obviously, so you will see "irrationalisms" such as "Ayn Rand is a selfish [expletive]" and others. But you will also find that there is a certain energy in opposing those views publicly. Not to shout and swear at each other, but to oppose that which is opposed to rationality. For me, at least, it is worth the effort. Finally, not being "social" is fine, so long as you are not subverting or suppressing a desire to be so. I am not particularly social, and I know why when less-than-rational friends of mine watch and applaud stupid themes and policies in art and politics.

I don't care for being on-camera all that much. Or spending the money to achieve that.

Thanks and it works.

If permitting is a problem with BOR or BLM or USFS or USACE I may have information of use to you. I have looked at N'Wstern Nv in the past. I was brought in by the USFS to help with permitting the 7-Up Pete mine in Lincoln Mt. I developed a system for permitting that solved both environmental and financing issues. That was when gold was 300+/-$ an ounce and costs were tight. If you have control of land I might be able to help. I worked with all the federal land agencies and most of the Western States. If interested send me a contact.

May I recommend martial arts to you as a hobby?

Jan

Brett, you are right it is a technique for finding a value in common with someone so I don't have to just butt heads. I try to find something a person holds as a value which is rational and put that value in contrast with their other values which contradict it. It is even more effective if you can find a value that is loved by both of us and rationally defensible. Grand kids are a good example. Hunt through what the person you are talking to loves, share that mutual feeling and as a trader sharing values build on that to show how other values they hold are putting the shared value at risk. When I used to do planning board presentations they did not usually did not want the proposed project so I learned how to show they should want the project by showing how it would achieve in reality some value they held about their community. The key is you have to be believable as a valuing person. That by its nature is affirmative and non-threatening so it helps others to open up and admit what they love.

I have talked to lots of teachers and we share a love a bright happy curious kids. Then the discussion is how can we get them through the school system without becoming brain dead. I make a passionate plea for training in reason through the classic Quadrivium and Trivium as giving the kids the sense of command of their own minds. A debate with both parties agreeing on the goal as a flourishing child is a debate on means not ends which is much better. Let me know if I have been obscure or missed something.

Since your answer is getting the most votes up, please check out this intuitively titled book on Amazon. I think it would be great for someone here to get the book, read it, and provide a review for us here in the online Gulch!
How to Deal With Irrational People: http://www.amazon.com/How-Deal-Irrati...

We have been engaged in the War on the West for decades now. Hence, the sagebrush rebellion heats up about every 15-20 years.

20 years ago, I began a book about the history of the public lands. It's called "The Sagebrush Rebellion, An American History of the Public Lands". I lost momentum when the Son of Sage Rebellion of the mid-90's fell apart on rigged federal court decisions. (Nye County, amongst others)

I am of a mind to dust it off, and bring it into the 21st Century. It is a huge undertaking.

Teri, have you heard of Light's House? Please check this out and let me know if anything here seems helpful. It is not an objectivist-based approach from what I can tell. But might help you. http://www.lightshouse.org

My favorite story is not going to be much help, because the level of stupidity was so great that nothing could penetrate it. However, it is a good example of how low people, college students yet, can go. When I was in college, just after the stone age, in a general discussion about the oddities one has encountered in life, a fellow from a southern state mentioned that opossums had sex through their noses.I, of course, told him he was nuts and 'possums did the nasty the same as us. An argument ensued and a $5 bet was made. ($5 in those days being a valuable as $20or more today). We agreed to bring our proof to the Student Center in one week. I went to a professor of biology who wrote a one page description of how opossums had sex, The next week, I met with my adversary and showed him my proof. He showed me his proof, which was three other guys who also testified that they saw the nose copulation. Proving that just because you say it's so, doen't make it so. After much arguing, we decided to call it a draw, and I resolved never to get involved in an argument with anyone proclaiming anything that stupid.

I wouldn't mind getting together occasionally with a small group of like-minded Objectivist-oriented people, and it has been suggested to me that I should set something like that up, possibly at a local restaurant.

However, I don't crave a lot of social contact. I'm not on Facebook (I guess this is my substitute). I work from home, and for the most part, don't miss the office environment. I do have a couple of friends from the old job that I meet for lunch about once a month, so I'm not a complete hermit. But I could be without much encouragement ;-)

Thanks for your answer Mike! Wow, great to have the short story of your impressive background. I'm going to check out your blog right after I reply here. I also grew up in Cleveland! From 1980-1988 (when I went to college). You had an earlier start than me I can tell. ;-)
You are the 2nd person here to recommend Browne's book. That's an interesting early trend here. Thanks again for your answer! Would you say you successfully found freedom in an unfree world?

I thought about this some more and I realized that I do have a continuing problem determining selling out from compromise. I am fully aware of the essay "Doesn't Life Require Compromise?" from The Virtue of Selfishness.

The problem is that on the one hand, a good merchant does not argue religion with his customer. If someone offers something you that want at a price that you are willing to pay, then no other consideration is relevant. On the other hand, the message of Atlas Shrugged is that we do not support our destroyers. If someone's religion (literal or figurative) is contrary to your values, you gain nothing from doing business with them.

I go back and forth on this all time.

Thanks for your answer, Teri I presume. That's a tough situation. I can relate, because I have a very irrational (and stubborn) older relative too. I will try to come back here with something that might help us both!

Thanks for your answer Gary. Looks like you are echoing a popular theme. :-)

Thanks for your unique answer, CK! Hope I can call you that. I checked out your profile here and think I have a new friend and relative neighbor! :-) You have a new fan at least.
Would you mind sharing more on what you have done so far, and how well it worked (or didn't)? Perhaps it's worth a new question to the Gulch here. If you ask it I'll definitely participate in the discussion. Thanks again for your answer!

Thanks for your answer, philosophercat. I would appreciate some clarification, however, because you lost me. Are you talking about a debate technique to try and get them to question their premises? Thanks for some elaboration or trying to give your challenge with some other words.

Thanks for your reply Herb. As I've asked from some others here, can we please have a specific example or story from you? I'm sure you have one at least. :-) Thanks! How you handled it would be great to learn too.

Thanks for your answer Esceptico! I like your perspective and recommendation a lot. I believe we need more of this. I've also found that the individual person has a lot more autonomy, flexibility, and range of options today than most people realize. But it's different than in prior years, and takes creativity and innovation to take advantage of it. This could be a good thread to follow up on.

Interesting. The rational mind has already concluded that a regulatory takings has occurred.

It is the gut side that is struggling to come to grips with any rationally developed viewpoint here. Anger, frustration, disappointment, disbelief intertwine with the objective mind. Since we are not Spock like creatures the exercise of integrating these sides of being human is an interesting endeavor.

Maybe it comes under the heading of don't get mad, get even. Because of the extent of the impact of what they are doing, and the blatant illegality of what they pulled, we fully expect this to produce a whopper of a lawsuit coming from the likes of AEMA (American Exploration and Mining Association) and others. I'd be glad to testify to the technical gerrymandering the agencies engaged in. I have it all documented with maps.

Wow, this sounds like a bad scenario Rootus5. I can think of worse, however. If you did take self-destructive action.
Perhaps it isn't Objectivism but unconventional military warfare strategy you need. Have you thought about using press and independent media to help your cause? I'm serious. I have a specific lead for you. Sharing and asking for help with your story among objectivist, libertarian, and free market channels should be a real consideration for you in my humble opinion. You can't fight an enemy with their favored tools and strategies. You need to use other means that exploit their weaknesses.