Galt's Gulch and International Trade

Posted by j_IR1776wg 5 years, 4 months ago to Business
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Would John Galt have considered having his generators manufactured in China or India assuming their facilities had survived the collapse? Would he have done so to lower his costs and improve his profit margins? Or would he be content to live off of the money he made charging the inhabitants of the Gulch and not become a manufacturer at all?


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    Posted by jdmatthew 5 years, 4 months ago
    Galt would have built his generators where ever he could find a compatinte work force willing to give a days labor in exchange for a days wage.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      But what if the only competent labor he could find was in a "people's republic"?
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      • Posted by jdmatthew 5 years, 4 months ago
        You question states "after the collapse " which would be then a time of renewal and rebuilding. The "Peoples Republics" would have been the first to collapse. A rebirth of a strong work ethic would be reborn from the absence of the "Nanny State Safety Net". Compatent workforces could be assembled in a mearide of places.
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        • Posted by fosterj717 5 years, 4 months ago
          Well said! When governments pretend to pay people, people pretend to work. Socialist countries have traded the work ethic for the entitlement mentality (just like we are seeing here in the US). The least resilient countries are the ones that must practice tyranny in a police state! Galt would never wish to move to a "Peoples Republic" to build his engine unlike Apple Computer.
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        • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
          Exactly. The collapse affected everyone. Recall Henry Rearden's rebuke of the five trying to sell him on the Steel Unification Plan: "All those d____d People's States have existed only on the loot you squeezed for them from us." Except that Ragnar seized it.

          If John Galt had anyone to make a deal with, it would have been with some of Ragnar's international customers, who bought his contraband goods with gold they themselves seized from government treasuries.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
    This is similar to the question I asked a couple of weeks ago about whether it made sense for Galt and Dagny to go back into the world. I stand firm that with no great producers left in the world with whom to do business that the logical thing for Galt to do would be to be content living off the money he charged other Gulch inhabitants. What would the remainder of society have to offer him?
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    • Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 4 months ago
      The most I could see him doing would be to produce locally and maybe some test markets outside the gulch. All done with suitable security and anonymity of course. Ragnar would be handy for both distribution and payment collection.

      Naturally Gold* on Delivery.

      *or a mutually agreed upon substitute for gold.
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    • Posted by blackswan 5 years, 4 months ago
      You'd have to acknowledge that there would be Gulches all over the world. What would develop would be an international trading network between these Gulches, somewhat like the silk road and its trade between city states. The rebirth would come from that network.
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    • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
      Don't forget: toward the end, in the passage following Eddie's lying across the tracks in Arizona, you saw Gulchers thinking ahead. Way ahead. Remember also: Galt promised to "open the gates of our city to all who deserve to enter" and "act as the rallying center for such outposts of civilization as you [his listeners] will build."
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 4 months ago
    Money is a medium of exchange, valuable only because people, like Galt or billions of hardworking little Galts, make useful goods and services. Galt would have had strong desire to offer his motor or the power it produced to willing customers, so he could take the money they give him and buy things he loves and to invest in other new technologies that might turn out to be as beneficial as the motor.

    The trouble is the gov'ts in the book would say, "Think of all the good this motor could do its value were properly administered by democratically-elected managers for the benefit of all humankind. We should not say it *belongs* and some supernatural attachment to one person just because he created it. He created it using parts made by others, with the help of workers putting the brainpower and physical work into it, and using raw materials of the earth that existed since before homo sapiens appeared on earth. The motor belongs to all humankind." Those administrators would manage it just as they mis-managed the railroads, either totally wasting its value or using some of its value to coerce others as with Project X.

    I think Galt would be keenly searching for a place, **any place**, where the gov't would respect his ownership of the motor and would respect its citizens' right to trade stuff they own for stuff they want.
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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
    John Galt, once he decided to go on strike, would have agreed to license his electrostatic motor to a Chinese firm if, and only if, the People's Republic of China ceased to be a People's Republic and became a just plain Republic of China with no regulations to go through.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      I agree. I wonder though would the devastation caused by the collapse have changed the minds of the ruling elite in the collectivist societies? My guess is that they would not have changed their minds and, therefore, a rebirth of reason, individual rights, and capitalism was not likely at least not in years measured in thousands.
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      • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
        Oh, but the elite wouldn't be around to change their minds. In the People's States, the freedom fighters with whom Ragnar routinely dealt, would find themselves in control of a few enclaves here and there. The rest of those lands would be in anarchy.

        In the United States, I project the following:

        We all know that Robert Stadler and Cuffy Meigs died in the fight over Project X in Dunkertown, Iowa, together with every man, woman and child within a hundred miles. We also saw Floyd Ferris and Wesley Mouch take Jim Taggart away from the State Science Institute campus. It's difficult to say whether the Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center would still be in operation then. (I place the SSI campus near Lyme N.H., probably on the reservation of the U.S. Army Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory.)

        Now let's move things along: after John Galt made his speech, several mini-Gulches sprang up in what was now wilderness, but of course wasn't always. At the same time, law and order did break down, and a lot of roving marauders and gangs would be roaming about.

        But some of those mini-Gulches would band together, in a militia. They would run down Mister Thompson, probably at the Wayne-Falkland Hotel, set up a drumhead court, and try him for treason. After that they need only wait. If I had to name anyone with the wit to go out looking for people to restore law and order, I'd pick Ragnar. And I imagine the first person he would be able to contact would be Sheriff Joseph Arpaio, of Maricopa County, Arizona. The seat of which is Phoenix, the southern terminus of the old Phoenix-Durango Railroad.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
          If you are a writer perhaps you should consider a novel about the recovery picking up from where AS ended.
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          • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
            I would like nothing better than to write that kind of novel. But any writer has to have three things: content, craft, and connections. The content I have. The craft, maybe you just said I have--and if so, I thank you for that. But the only connection I can reliably say I have, is a paid account with this community. Not enough, I'm afraid.
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            • Posted by $ minniepuck 5 years, 4 months ago
              What would you lose by starting this kind of project? It will take some time to undertake and more connections can be made in the meantime. There are important people in this place with valuable networks outside of the site. The Gulch is a great place to start. It's just difficult to recommend a book that hasn't been written.
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            • Posted by Poplicola 5 years, 4 months ago
              To create a Sequel to AS, you might also need to clear IP Rights from whoever holds the copyright and trademark interests in AS and any potential derivative materials, unless of course you explicitly set it in a different fictional universe in which AS is just a book that inspires new characters after Rand's predictions come to pass. I really hope the producers of the movie trilogy go in this direction at some point with lots of participation from members of the Gulch.
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              • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
                A universe in which everything took place *except* the withdrawal of a group of "people of the mind"? Or one in which a bunch of people like us decide to "make it real"?

                Actually someone already created the scenario in which the whole society collapses. But not everyone here is going to appreciate it. The author's name is John the Apostle, also known as Saint John of Jerusalem. The work I cite is The Away-Vision (Apocalypsis) from John, or the Revelation to John as St. Jerome called it. He told of this mainly in allegorical signs: a generalized earthquake with simultaneous solar and lunar eclipse manifestations to signify the collapse, then the arrival of a man-with-a-plan--a real braggart, and, to give him credit, a great military captain. See Revelation chapters 6 and 13 for details.
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        • Posted by fosterj717 5 years, 4 months ago
          Actually the best would be that these mini-Gulches would self-form and trade together and even band together for their mutual protection. All voluntarily! Gee! that sounds like the start of our country before the birth of this federal wasteful and tyrannical Leviathan we have now.
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          • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
            That's pretty much what John Galt expected of the founders of these communities. There's your theme, by the way. The plot-theme must involve someone caught up in the collapse, who learns a stern life lesson as the leaders of several of these communities recruit and sent out a scout force on a "Quest for Atlantis." Which, by the way, is my working title.
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            • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
              I like it!
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              • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 4 months ago
                You understand, then: no novel can succeed unless it is primarily the story of a particular person or persons. It's not enough to narrate a Big Event. One must narrate the story of one caught up in that event. One who learns something from it.

                Such a person is a literary hero. By my definition, Dagny Taggart and Henry Rearden are the heroes of AS. John Galt, Francisco d'Anconia, and Ragnar Danneskjöld are anti-villains. "Villains" because, unlike heroes, they have already made their decisions and will ruthlessly carry on to their destinies. "Anti-" because the cause they serve is just rather than unjust.

                Henry Rearden said it best of all, to Gwen Ives: "I am discovering a new continent. One that should have been discovered along with America, but wasn't."

                Now I must invent a character who sets out to find Atlantis and makes a similar discovery. I could, possibly, use Eddie Willers--or some scout, either independent or belonging to some settlement or other, who discovers him. And doesn't know quite what to make of the raving maniac he has by then become, or how to help him.
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                • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
                  Maybe you can have him stumble across the Statute of Liberty with Lazarus' poem intact and his search for its beginnings points him toward a re-discovery of America?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 4 months ago
    China? No way. Why? Piracy.

    If you manufacture something in China, you have to give the Chinese government the plans to how it is built. They have no respect for property rights or invention. Neither Galt nor any other Objective inventor would ever consider manufacturing in China at this point in time.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 4 months ago
    I believe that we "vote with our money" and also
    vote with our choices. . if I were John, I would have
    the motors made in the u.s. in a right-to-work State
    under license (as long as patents would last) while
    I worked in my lab to invent more. . I believe in the
    u.s. even to this day. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 4 months ago
    If even one state, the country or the whole world ever got back to 'Principles' then he probably would have produced his generators in every country under his own supervision.
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