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Objectivist Rehab Program?

Posted by davidmcnab 5 years, 6 months ago to Education
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The fact that so many people (even people of genius-level intelligence) spend their lives stuck in looter thinking is evidence of just how insidious, powerful and persistent that mind-set is.

Ayn Rand's novels tend to take a black-and-white view of humanity: you're either a producer or a looter and nothing's going to change. But there are some exceptions. For instance, the young man on the pushbike who meets Howard Roark, sees his new housing development, and is transformed for life.

I'm not interested in people who persist in a life-long choice to remain looters. To me, they're like meth addicts who persistently refuse all help, or babies with their insatiable mouths firmly clamped on the tit of State. But I am interested in those who feel, deep down, that something is wrong, that there must be a better way.

For such borderline cases, there is value to be gained from a program to help them migrate to a whole new perspective. Such people need and deserve support - not in the alms-given sense, but in the sense that we all profit when someone new comes into the Gulch for real.

As someone who was raised an brainwashed in a left-leaning family, community, school and university, I can testify that the looter brainwashing effort is nothing short of spectacular. It's about the only thing the looters are brilliantly capable of. So it needs tremendous ingenuity and persistence on our part to support willing people out of that mind-set. This also implies a view of looters not as moral degenerates (unless they persistently refuse all help), but as victims of endemic organised fraud, victims of philosophical injury who often need help to recover. Just as with a lifelong drug addiction, the barriers to escaping looter consciousness are harrowing.

So I wanted to start discussion here on what a "looter rehab" program would need in order to have the greatest possible chance of success with willing people. A healing program, for willing people to evolve out of looter consciousness into free, empowered, ecstatic producers.



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    Posted by Zenphamy 5 years, 6 months ago
    A few, a very few, can be helped, but not in a 'rehab' or 're-education' model, and I speak from some experience. It takes mentoring and requested assistance (not help) as well as demonstrations at a personal level, but more than anything else, it takes a desire for pride in self. I've been disappointed more times than I've been rewarded. There are certain individuals that can benefit from such effort, but it's their own drive and desire and even with that, it takes a couple of years of offered opportunities for achievement before the transition to Objectivist thought becomes apparent to the individual. And it's often a surprise to the individual when they come to the realization of the change in themselves.

    The best experience I had, was with a died in the wool socialist, SDS agitator in college in NY, with a Masters in history in his early 30's. It took him 5 yrs to make the full transition to want to reread AS (he'd read it as a socialist from the viewpoint of a man with pride in his own accomplishment. He'd seen it on my bookshelf for all those years and in the first couple made a lot of derogatory comments, but in his reread, we'd often spend another hour or two at work after everyone else had left, discussing what he'd found that he could relate to in his own work and life.

    I ran into him 2 or 3 years after he'd moved on and found him taking the mentoring role with a young man working with him. When I made a comment about it, he just turned to me and asked me, 'Was it worth it Jones? The time you spent with me?' I replied, 'Yes Jack, it was.' He came back with, 'It is with me too.' and pointed to his bookshelf with AS and a few others beside it.

    That's how it happens. One at a time, several times.
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    • Posted by marshafamilaroenright 5 years, 6 months ago
      Couldn't agree with you more, Zenphamy. Congrats on your success and the chain reaction you started.

      For one thing, you have to approach the other person with respect, mind to mind. Not only will they be more receptive (you're not incidentally attacking their egos), but you're modeling what an Objectivist should be like, respecting the other person's individuality and independence. Giving them facts and arguments and doing it with empathy for their point of view - really listening.

      And it especially helps to know what values drive them to be a socialist. That way, if any of the reason is based on objectively good values, you can show how your approach better fulfills those values.

      BTW, in the '70's, I had opportunities to talk to Rand at Peikoff and Blumenthal's lectures in NYC. I was about 25, but she never, ever treated me in a condescending manner. She always took my questions seriously and spoke to me mind to mind.
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      • Posted by $ Snezzy 5 years, 6 months ago
        Yes, she would do that frequently in the Q&A after the Ford Hall Forum lectures in Boston. Someone would ask a pointed and hostile question, hoping to catch her with it. Judge Lurie, the moderator, would often try to push such questions out of the way as the insults they were, but Rand might say, "No, this is very interesting. Let him speak!" She would then go on addressing the fundamental points, as well as the questioner's errors and possible motivation. I saw this happen several times. If her enemies were honestly intellectually curious, and not just flapping their mouths, they were well rewarded. Perhaps a few of them understood and reconsidered their positions.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 6 months ago
          I consider it a form of proof of mental confidence
          and skill to "take any question" like Rand did. . I'd
          heard of this, about her interviews -- the interviewers
          were astonished that she did not block out areas
          which she didn't want to address. . Strong Woman!!! -- j
          .
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  • Posted by $ jlc 5 years, 6 months ago
    I agree with a lot of what mamaemma, blarman, marshalletc said, but I think that an obvious point is being missed: Art LEADS.

    The way to bring awareness of Objectivism to people is to Make Movies About It. Make superheroes endorse the individual (we are discussing this on another thread), make people who work for freedom the good guys instead of the good guys being cast as people who work for Mother Earth or World Union.

    We will never make headway against the socialist ethos unless we have a strong image to present of ourselves. Too long have the capitalists been the Bad Guys of the movie - we need to be the Heroes now.

    This Site is the result of a movie. It has had more effect on promoting the Randist philosophy than anything other than AS the book itself. More movies are being made, discussions on this (now huge) Objectivist site are lively. I think we are on the right track. We have to win people's hearts before they will be receptive to our engaging their minds.

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 5 years, 6 months ago
    It is hard to overcome the entitlement thinking so programmed into our young people by schools and government. Our daughter was an example. Raised with the philosophy of Rand, she had a nice middle class life at home, and college. We tried to undo the programming along the way, but it took to to large an extent. She got her degree, had no desire to use it, got married to someone with no desire to work, and expected (and received hands outs from both sets of parents for a while). Finally my husband said "enough", and we cut them off. Now, daughter felt sorry for herself, they got public assistance, and told each other how mean everyone was. Then, one day, daughter got tired of living like the public assistance folk, having to join the health care lines, no cool car, no respect like when she was at home. She no longer liked being one of the sheep. She got a part time job, among producers, worked hard to create a full time position for herself. Suddenly, she began to climb the ladder and loved it. She is paying her own way still, and working on an MBA. She is in the process of dumping the lazy looting husband. This transition has taken about seven years, but it is wonderful to see. Hard to watch as she had to hit bottom on the looter scale, but her enthusiasm for producing, and the success she is finding, is wonderful. She understands that respect is earned by productive behavior. While I never had that issue, I was always an Objectivist at heart, she had to find her way to it. It does not help that we do want to give our children too much, we want them to have that cool car, that pricey education, but sometimes, they can't handle being given what they should earn. Deep down, they know that only by earning, can you find self-respect, it cannot be given.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
      Has she reconciled with her family and come to understand your earlier toughlove decisions?
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 5 years, 6 months ago
        Absolutely. She talks about how she grew, how she loves being around producers (who include Objectivists) and how she feels better about herself now that she is using her potential and making things happen at work. She works willingly any hours that are needed to see the business grow where she is in charge of day to day operations and promotions. She said she will never again even date anyone who does not understand that kind of thinking. The Rand seed was there all along, it just needed some life experience to cause it to grow and flourish.
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  • Posted by $ minniepuck 5 years, 6 months ago
    Take everything away. Start fresh. They will have to work for everything; nothing will ever be given to them for free again. This kind of reminds me of what Dagny went through when she crashed into the Gulch. She had to start over.
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    • Posted by kevinw 5 years, 6 months ago
      That would work for a Dagney, she would never take anything for free and was not afraid to start over. The withdrawals of a looter might get violent.
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      • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
        One of Ayn Rand's most powerful techniques is (ironically) borrowing a trick from one of her lead characters, Gail Wynand. She portrays the protagonists as getting way better sex than the looters. :D
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        • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 6 months ago
          Rand’s more explicit sex scenes seem to be rape fantasy oriented, including the initiation of the use of force. The theme is clear in both “The Fountainhead” and “Atlas.”

          Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantas... “Studies have found rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy among both men and women. The fantasy may involve the fantasist as either the one being forced into sex or as the perpetrator. Some studies have found that women tend to fantasize about being forced or coerced into sexual activity more commonly than men.”

          Maybe Rand acted out her fantasy in her writing. But, as to more and better sex, I suppose it depends upon the fantasy of the participants.
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          • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 6 months ago
            I lost a girlfriend over this -- she wanted "rough
            handling" and I happen to think the opposite,
            that tenderness and intensity that way are the
            best glue holding intimacy together. . she went
            back to her ex-husband who abused her. sad. -- j

            p.s. it's not that I miss her that makes me sad;;
            it's the abuse. . my wife is majestic and wonderful !!!
            .
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            • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 6 months ago
              I’d say “BDSM Lite” among consenting adults is fine. What can be wrong acting out fantasy so long as nobody gets hurt. Rand, as I read her writing, did not consider consent important and treated the rapes as a lifestyle rather than fantasy. Sort of like promising the Muslim guys 72 virgins. It might be nice for the male but what if you are among the 72?
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          • Posted by jdg 5 years, 6 months ago
            I always wondered if AR made the common mistake of believing that the woman is always more or less the one "done to" (and thus she didn't have to take any responsibility for her long-term affair with Nathaniel Branden). It sure contrasts with her usual emphasis on always taking responsibility for one's own actions, to say the least.
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          • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
            If it was a choice between passionate forceful dynamics, bordering on "50 shades" versus the vile, bland unsatisfying interactions between Lillian Rearden and James Taggart, I'm sure most life-loving folk wouldn't have a had time choosing ;)
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            • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 6 months ago
              I am an Objectivist, but not a Rand apologist. Her sex scenes were brutal and well fit the rape fantasy. “Passionate forceful dynamics” might describe consensual acts between two adults, her scenes did not have any such communication between the parties. I view your statement as the fallacy of the false alternative. At least Lillian/James were obviously consensual.
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  • Posted by marshafamilaroenright 5 years, 6 months ago
    One thing I was thinking is that it's not a good idea to approach them as "looters." Many have a completely different gestalt about production, what the government's responsibilities are, the nature of rights, etc. so they're not thinking and many would be appalled to think of themselves in those terms.

    I know many socialists and socialist-leaning who are very concerned about protecting the rights of "the little guy," i.e. the guy with little money and property or power, against those with a lot of money who can buy favors. It's a real concern!

    However, they're taught to think about it in terms of groups - disadvantaged groups. I like to approach it with : I'm for protecting the smallest minority, the individual. And explain my ideas from that vantage point.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
      Right you are, Jan. You'll never win hearts with any derogatory labels. Better to approach them with wealth, and say "Did anyone tell you that you can actually HAVE this? And you DON'T have to cheat, or lie, or swindle, or bribe politicians, or exploit vulnerable people, or destroy the environment in order to get it? I'm willing to spend some time with you and show you HOW!"
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 6 months ago
    I am guilty of mooching for a month.
    Before I heard of Ayn Rand due to the AS movies, a huge tornado missed my home by a quarter of a mile, causing some damage, though the worst was a pecan tree falling across the street, ripping down all the power lines and almost reaching my front door. The power was restored in 3 days. I had no cable or Internet for a month.
    I heard on the news the government was offering a card to cover about $400 for food for tornado survivors, but I knew a lot of people was worse off than me.
    A next door neighbor with roof damage said I should get the card because I was having trouble making ends meet and looking for a job though receiving a pension.
    I got to thinking OK that $400 would help. There was a huge line at that government building. I got the card and maxed it out buying groceries. I thought that was it.
    Big Brother sends a letter to ask me why aren't I using my card EVERY MONTH.
    That's when I realized I had electronic food stamps and received a quick education what an EBT card really was on the Internet.
    What got me was that Big Brother wanted me to keep using that card bad enough to write an encouraging letter.
    I shredded that sneaky backdoor into Obama dependency land.
    Later I found a job that I had a while before I returned to fully retired.
    I wonder how many people are still using that card but could by without it. Quite a few, I think.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=plea...
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  • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 6 months ago
    Here's one thing I would propose: simple farming. Why? Think about it.
    1. It's hard work. There is no better cure for the looting mentality than simple, hard work.
    2. It teaches pride in hard work. It is an awesome thing to watch plants grow and produce and to know you have had a hand in the process.
    3. It teaches the value of investment and return. You till, you plant, you weed, you watch, you harvest.
    4. It teaches one to be cognizant of where all food comes from and not to take for granted something we need every day.
    5. If you do it right, it gives an opportunity for barter/trade, as you can usually make more than you need, giving you excess for trade with others.
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    • Posted by marshafamilaroenright 5 years, 6 months ago
      That's the idea behind several programs I know about: one is for drug rehabbers, they go to a farm and work with horses and other animals.
      Others are programs that send poor urban kids to farms and camps in the summer. Shows them a whole new aspect of life. Many have hardly ever been out in nature, or paid attention to it, but it can be very soothing and satisfying.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 6 months ago
    One thought is to give people who were receiving govt monies from govt programs, grants, and contracts money for nothing and wean those pmts down slowly. They'd be free to find other jobs while still receiving money, at least for a few years, that they previously earned working at military bases, prisons, or grant-funded research. The same could happen for medical assistance, food stamps, retirement/disability benefits, etc. Cold turkey would be better, but I don't see that happening.

    I don't see the corporate-owned right-wing media supporting either cold-turkey or weaning. The best I realistically hope for is freezing spending at current levels, with spending-to-GDP ratio declining slow enough to avoid withdrawal.
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    • Posted by marshafamilaroenright 5 years, 6 months ago
      Also, freeing up the economy so there would be more jobs. I remember in the '90's when the economy was really go-go and the govt had cut back on welfare, even unskilled people were working. I remember, because I had to put up with them on the long road to learning how to behave in business at my local McDonald's, etc.!
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  • Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 6 months ago
    A looter rehab program would have one core purpose, to educate a "looter" that there is another effective option for them.

    All we can ever do is place the philosophical feast in front of them, it must be their choice to dig in.

    Force feeding them if they balk is the looter way, they already suffer under the weight of public school indoctrination and brain washing. We cannot do the same.

    Our goal is to set their minds free, not cage them in.
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  • Posted by kevinw 5 years, 6 months ago
    Hello DavidMcnab,

    What a great post. This is the direction I wanted to lead to with my "free ride" post but I didn't know how to get there. I was pondering on how to reach those people.

    I like this. It brings to mind a 12 step program, Gulch style. First they have to admit they have a problem (addiction). Then you show them a glimpse of what it could be like with that addiction out of the way. They would have to really want to "fix" themselves.
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  • Posted by woodlema 5 years, 6 months ago
    I heard this one a long time ago and found it to be so true.

    Help, whatever it is, is NOT there for people who "need" it, "HELP" is there for people who not only WANT it but will do what it takes to get it.

    My wife's sister is a great example. My wife in the goodness of her heart wanted to help her sister, for no other reason than she loves her, and cannot stand to see her half starving with no perceived opportunities.

    This is where "Rational Self-Interest" collides with "Charity and Altruism."

    My personal self interest, and at my expense was to prove a point to my wife and "fix" her mind.

    Her sister was attending school to be a CMA, has great grades, and completed her coursework in half the time everyone else did.

    During the last 6 months of her training, I offer to let Penny live with my wife and I, complete her classes, and I would pay for her certification exam so she could get a very good paying job.

    she graduated, never took her exam, moved in with her son. and went to work part-time at Home Depot, collecting welfare, and food stamps, and complaining about how unfair life is.

    Last Thanksgiving Penny had NO money for food because they bought a horse and two goats.

    My wife wanted to give them money for food, and I took the time to reason with her, about how that would do NO good other than take money from OUR lives.

    The unfortunate aspect of this, is that while I did fix my wife's thinking, because it became painfully aware that money does not fix this issue, Penny has to make her own changes and the ONLY way that will happen is if she has to WORK it our herself. NO amount of charity or good will is going to "help" someone. Only the knawning hunger when their stomach is empty will their brain, hopefully, force them to realize what THEY need to do to fix their lives.

    Most people do not have the discretionary resources to prove a point this way.

    Now when Penny wants something my wife says NO. Did you get your CMA yet?
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 5 years, 6 months ago
    From reading comments in the Gulch, my thought is that the best rehab is to read one of Rands fiction books. From what I can tell, most Gulchers were introduced to her writings by someone. Now we have the movies, too!
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  • Posted by coaldigger 5 years, 6 months ago
    It would be nice to do something dramatic that would instantly change the world but that isn't going to happen. I would like to comb all laws and programs to find and eliminate incentives that provide an equal or better benefit to those receiving aid than is earned by the lowest producer. It is insane to have people trying to qualify for "disability" because then they will be better off than they are doing the job that they currently have. This would be a small step but it would illustrate the principle that production pays better than the dole instead of the other way around. Once this sank in, other progress could be made.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
      Yeah it's a bit weird the way productivity is disincentivised. For people seeking to work their way off welfare, they have to achieve a fair bit of success to come out ahead. Many welfare recipients weigh up money versus free time and actually make a lifestyle choice to stay on welfare.
      I feel the welfare system would benefit if people's "entitlements" were reduced by 1% every week. That would mean that after a year, they are receiving only 60%, and after 2 years, only 35%. They'd start to get a bit more motivated then.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 5 years, 6 months ago
    David, how did your transformation occur?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
      Largely from being exposed to the commercial realities of the IT industry. Companies have to pay by merit and outcome, rather than ideology and process, or else they go bust. That, and when I was about to start in that industry, an old school friend at the time put me on to Ayn Rand :)
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 5 years, 6 months ago
        But you were able to look past your brainwashing and look at reality with a reasoning mind. That shows intelligence and discrimination.
        How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to REALLY want to change.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
          Also - the fact that without a certain amount of critical, rational, logical thinking, you simply can't do your job in this trade. Tears don't make the code work. Nor does violence. Only correct and sustained mental discipline.
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  • Posted by $ ObjectiveAnalyst 5 years, 6 months ago
    Hello davidmcnab,
    For some it will take a deprogramming, program. Perhaps something like AA's 12 step program and the first step is recognizing and admitting you have problem. I believe once people open their eyes to the reality that they are contributing to the leftist, socialist mentality that is destroying rather than improving things, only then can they be redeemed. Some, as you have indicated, are and always will be oblivious, while others know deep down there is something wrong.
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 5 years, 6 months ago
    I have spent a decade of my life with doing this for others as my primary reward. I work and run a technical support organization for various companies over the years, but the last decade my real aim has been to, little by little help people see the light of individualism, capitalism, Objectivism and LDS church. Any or all that a person shows interest in.

    I have had some success and some disappointment. I think reaching out to others is the only way to really do it, and it takes time.

    An example is the idea of taking care of the poor. The sales point of "we have to take care of the poor" is easy to make. Very few people want to see others suffer and stand around and do nothing to help. The issue is questions around this cannot be in a sound bite.

    How do you define help?
    Is it really helping to give someone a fish everyday, or is that destructive?

    What costs are acceptable?
    Is it worth helping that poor guy on the corner and getting killed because he is really a mugger that wants to rob you?

    What are the boundaries?
    Liberals think there are none but when posed with questions like this they start to think.

    I once had a person form my church (church of Jesus Christ of later day saints) ask how anyone who believes in the church could not be in favor of welfare. My response was "I cannot understand how anyone who is a member of the church could be in favor of government welfare."

    He said that Christ showed the example and we should follow it. I asked "Show one place where Christ forced anyone to help another, can you? I have never found it. Government welfare forces people to help others. Our religion teaches individual agency, in fact do we not believe that in a war in heaven, our god lost 1/3 of his children in war to maintain individual agency. How then can you support a system that would take that agency away?"

    Two weeks later that person had read Atlas and was starting into the virtues of selfishness. He has completely changed and has been a friend for 8 years.

    The successes are far less often than the failures on this though, and there are costs. A friend that I approached has not talked to me in 5 years. I have a sister who drank the looter cool-aid big time and she will not talk to me at all. A brother that did so less and I have pushed him largely out of my life by trying to share the concepts. These failures in particular had a heavy cost, but the cost would have been heavier not to try.

    In my sisters case I and my father had helped her financially and in other ways. She simply did not change at all and I became fed up with it. I expressed exactly what she was doing, victimizing me for her benefit and I could see in her eyes that she knew it, and was scared that I knew it. She has not talked to me since.

    We all have to be the rehab program for those around us, in whatever environment we can. We have to tolerate the looters a bit less, a whole lot less. All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing. I define good to mean a person who will take care of themselves, and do all in their power to not inflict force on another of any kind. Respect the way in which others wish to live their lives so long as that lifestyle does not exert force on others in order to live it. This is what Christ meant when he said "love your neighbor as yourself."
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 6 months ago
    I love this concept because I believe there are a lot of center people who lean left for the wrong reasons because they have not thought things through.

    Unless we do simply "go gulch", this is the most important group to reach.
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  • Posted by woodlema 5 years, 6 months ago
    Looter rehab, is to JUST SAY NO, to any form of charity for the homeless and poor.

    Provide your "Charity" only to those who are worthy and provide "value."

    Honestly the liberals are so bi-polar, they do not even understand that they betray their own ideology.

    Look at what the lefty liberal Mika is doing...Rewarding hard work. This is a direct violation of the "unfairness" that people think poor people have.


    Mika is pushing a "Know Your Value" campaign. Sounds like Ayn Rand right?

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mika-brzezins...

    "Mika hosted a twitter conversation and answered questions on how to gauge professional value and balance work and home life. She also introduced her newest book Grow Your Value, a guide for women to assess and obtain their true value in the workplace."

    WOW....isn't that totally opposite of the leftie ideology?
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    • Posted by jdg 5 years, 6 months ago
      I don't go quite that far. I would simply shut down forced (tax-funded) aid to the poor.

      Churches and other private charities seem much better at telling which poor people are deserving and which are just moochers. Besides, shutting down private charity would mean even more beggars on the streets, and I hate having them around.
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      • Posted by 5 years, 6 months ago
        There is a point where cutbacks to state aid can actually result in a less efficient economy, due to crimes committed by the destitute. While such cutbacks will trigger many poor people into productivity, others will take it as a green light to ramp up a life of crime. Unless there is a huge up-scaling of high-profit private industrial prisons and zero-tolerance policing, the cost of damage done by the criminal poor could well exceed the collective tax savings.

        This is part of what I understand as the meaning of the "Gulch". A community immune to criminal attack from outside (and by "criminal", I'm including almost all governments). A place where persistent breaches of The Oath can result in expulsion, and where compromises such as that mentioned in the previous paragraph don't even have to be considered.
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        • Posted by woodlema 5 years, 6 months ago
          THAT is where you eliminate all crimes due to pot, expunge their records, free them all, apologize to them with a check for $50,000.00 so they can get themselves setup and provide REAL prison time to people who rob and steal.
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          • Posted by $ Technocracy 5 years, 6 months ago
            ixnay on the check.

            Whether the laws against pot are morally right or wrong, they still broke the laws, I shall not reward them for that.

            Their freedom, expunged records, and apologies are sufficient in my view.
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            • Posted by woodlema 5 years, 6 months ago
              I originally thought that too, however 2 - 5 years in prison, kinda kills any skill set.

              Speaking from the rational self-interest, 2 - 5 years in prison, would cost the taxpayers, 50 - 250K per inmate, so this would actually do two things.
              1) Reduce the 5 year cost to the taxpayers,
              2) Provide at least enough money for them to go to a tech school get some skill where they can provide value.

              If all they did was squander it, and robbed, well then they stimulated the economy anyhow by spending it, and would be back in jail.

              My bet is that if told to get some training a large number of the pot criminals might all go to Colorado and start their own grow houses, Free Market, and competition hehe.
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  • Posted by autumnleaves 5 years, 6 months ago
    I want to second that this is a great post! I like the idea of giving the looters a fiction book to read. (of AR)
    I also will not call them looters! One of my daughters and her husband are devoted to the Olier. They are not looters! We discuss philosophy often! Sometimes I wonder if they are just teasing me!?!?!
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 6 months ago
    As in all rehab programs, for the addict to change, he or she MUST hit bottom first.
    Whether the addiction is to drugs and alcohol or bad philosophy, the spark of change happens when the person comes TO himself and puts his life on trial.
    I myself tired of taking care of others who were perfectly capable of handling life without my constant presence and energy input...they just were content to sit and live off my good graces and hard work.
    I bottomed out after a contested divorce left me broke and broken.
    It was then that I was introduced to Ayn Rand and her Objectivism and I have never since been tempted back into co-dependency.
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  • Posted by nln1219 5 years, 6 months ago
    My dad taught myself and my brother to be producers. I taught my son to be like wise wise. AS was a graduation gift from HS. We are currently teaching my nephew (my brothers son, because my brother was killed in a car crash in 06') to do likewise. He has watched the movie, but not read the book as he is only 11. He understands parts of it, but not all. He understands Money is a tool, and we are teaching him "The Oath"
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 6 months ago
    Your "conversion" description fits many of us.
    I think that a person must first express an interest in Objectivism. Once that occurs then let the learning begin. I like the way Branden did it. He formulated a 10 week course called "Basic Principles of Objectivism" and held classes in his locality. The sessions were taped, and people who were known Objectivists in various areas were selected to present the tapes on a weekly basis for the nominal fee of $10. I don't know if the course still exists in either Rand's or Branden's estates, or perhaps a new course can be formulated. In any case, I know that where I lived, it produced a group of people well grounded in Rand's philosophy.
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