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Why do Hanks hold on to Lillians?

Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 10 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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Why do Hanks hold onto Lillians?

I have searched my entire life for my Hank, and have yet to find him. Well, at least not available. I do see Hanks around and they seem to always have a Lillian hanging on. Why? I see this as a contradiction. How can someone live a happy, fulfilling life with a contradiction like this? I will not compromise or sacrifice myself, and don't don't want anyone to compromise or sacrifice for me.

Lillian has no respect for Hank, his work or his business as demonstrated when he gives her a bracelet made from the 1st heat of his new metal, mockingly saying: “You mean,”...”it's fully as valuable as a piece of railroad rails?” She jingled the bracelet, making it sparkle under the light. “Henry it's perfectly wonderful! What originality! I shall be the sensation of New York, wearing jewelry made of the same stuff as bridge girders, truck motors, kitchen stoves, typewriters, and – what was it you were saying about it the other day, darling? - soup kettles?”

Lillian is not particularly interested in Hanks money, of course until she has none, but she is very interested in her position and image. Hank has no other value to her. She uses him as a pawn to gain position and pull as demonstrated when attending James Taggart's wedding.

Then there are family members.
Hank's mother: “The intention's plain selfishness, if you ask me,” said Reardens mother. “another man would bring a diamond bracelet, if he want to give his wife a present, because it's her pleasure he'd think of not his own. But Henry thinks that just because he's made a new kind of tin, why, it's got to be more precious than diamonds to everybody, just because it's he that's made it. That's the way he's been since he was five years old – the most conceited brat you ever saw – and I knew he'd grow up to be the most selfish creature on God's earth.”
Philip: “By the way, Henry,” Philip added, “do you mind if I ask you to have Miss Ives give me the money in cash?” …...”You see, Friends of Global Progress are a very progressive group and they have always maintained that you represent the blackest element of social retrogression in the country, so it would embarrass us, you know, to have your name on our list of contributors, because somebody might accuse us of being in the pay of Hank Rearden.”


Here is AR on Contradiction (From The Virtue of Selfishness): The Law of Identity (A is A) is a rational man’s paramount consideration in the process of determining his interests. He knows that the contradictory is the impossible, that a contradiction cannot be achieved in reality and that the attempt to achieve it can lead only to disaster and destruction. Therefore, he does not permit himself to hold contradictory values, to pursue contradictory goals, or to imagine that the pursuit of a contradiction can ever be to his interest.

Does your significant other respect and value you and your philosophy of life? If not, why are you still there?


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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Later in the story she undermined him.
    What she brought to the table earlier in the game, while he was still building his business, was her social networking abilities.

    Also, imagine what his home and life would be like if running the household were up to him, while he was busy building his empire.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 7 months ago
    I would also posit that as much as marrying that person, you are marrying the person they may become. If you don't look at that aspect of a person, you are bound to mistakenly read the other. if you don't share interests and philosophy, you are bound to grow apart. If you don't share your views on children and family, this will become a major wedge. If you don't agree on how to manage the finances, you will fall prey to the #1 cause of divorce. And if you fail to stay in love with your spouse by allowing other interests over him/her, disaffection can also lead to problems.

    Bottom line: choose well and recognize that it isn't a one-time line of "I do", but the daily practice.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 7 months ago
    "Does your significant other respect and value you and your philosophy of life?"

    Yup. We're in it together. Going on eighteen years with the plan to never part.
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  • Posted by IndianaGary 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I doubt it. Lillian despised Hank and all that he stood for. It took the nudges mentioned for him to see it and that is when he got his lawyer to buy his divorce.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not so sure I can agree. Everyone has "life-changing" or "defining" moments in their lives that alter their principles. It can be the death of a friend or loved one, some epiphany, reading a good book, or falling in love. I would argue that people are as inconstant as water, and mostly because as they develop they increase their store of life experiences from which to make future decisions.

    To me, the key for a successful relationship is to #1 have a mutual goal, #2, realize that you aren't there yet, and #3 work together to get it. This is one of the reasons why Hollywood marriages (the butt of many jokes) never last - because they aren't in it for anything more than the photo shoot or the fleeting sex. The marriages which start on a foundation of communication, mutual respect, and long-term goals are the ones most likely to last simply because then the life-changing moments that come along don't necessarily derail us from our path. They become temporary exits or bumps in the road rather than termini.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ME too! I only read it 2 years ago and sooooo wished I had read it and all other AR works when I was high school... would have had clarity so much sooner... :(
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  • Posted by kevinw 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I sometimes wonder what life would have been like if I had read Atlas Shrugged earlier in life. But even if I had known John Galt personally I'm not sure I would have been ready for it earlier. So, no living in the past. The future is bright now that I am out of my own way.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, my wife and I did have some wonderful years together.

    Cheryl Brooks Taggart does develop, all right. But that development ends in death.

    But you're right about the thoroughness of Hank Rearden's development.

    I always figured Hank ended up marrying his secretary, Gwen Ives. She understood him almost as well as did Dagny.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    At a writers' conference, I learned that the terms "hero" and "villain" in literature do not reflect their common usage in real life. In real life, a hero serves a just cause, while a villain (literally: "low-life!") serves an evil cause or a shortsighted end.

    But in literature, a hero either develops as a character or else changes his or her perspective in a striking way. A villain does neither of these. He looks at life with single-minded striving toward his goal. Nothing short of death or overwhelming defeat will stop him.

    Well, if an anti-hero is a character who develops and ends up serving an evil cause, an anti-villain is a single-minded striver for a just cause.
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have not done that, but it sure is a great idea. It will be a great tool to see if that person that jingles your bells is really who you think they are before things go to far also. Great idea. +1
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 7 months ago
    I once took a sheet of paper and wrote down everything I valued as they came to me. I then took a second sheet and put my values into hierarchical form. The intent was to find a woman willing to do the same. Never did. I look at it every so often and update it where necessary (grandson) and wonder if anyone in the Gulch created a list of their values and succeeded where I had failed?
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. And I had that AR quote attached to all of my out going mails too. Nothing sunk in with them. So I quietly quit them. I have better things to do and better people to talk to too.
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Me too. There are family members I will soon be shrugging too. "The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see." - Ayn Rand
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  • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Snezzy, I think the WWJGD (or Rand or Jesus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster) comparison might not be rooted in 'imitation,' but a sort of Final Exam for whichever 'course'... i.e., "Did You Get The Message?" Did you learn what the course was trying to teach you?

    A lot of 'learning' may start with imitation, but when the lessons are internalized and owned by the student, they're operating independently and on a higher level.

    Which is ok with me. I've done that with more than a few 'lessons' in my life.

    Including a second marriage; this time to a woman who's willing to support my dreams and goals and whose dreams and goals I'm willing to support, too.

    And 'support' doesn't mean 'provide funding,' necessarily... sometimes just some encouragement and positive words will do.

    Took me two tries to find her; took her three at-bats to find me. 24th anniversary was in July of this year. Big :)
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  • Posted by $ arthuroslund 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I dislike the term Objectivism and I know that AR was very hesitant to give any name her philosophy. Anyone who has to parse AR novels probably needs a good course in Aristotelian Logic. It was an overall general concept that she wanted to convey and did so with a masterpiece.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've been there. With friends, not my husband. I have shrugged almost all of my friends because of it too. They won't listen, or think.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All I can respond with is that relationships are two way. Both parties have responsibilities. Most failures are not one sided.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are correct. Hank was conflicted, about why he was allowing his family to mooch off of him like it was his duty. But he was not conflicted about where the money came from, earning it, his metal was good and he deserved to profit. The rest were conflicted about his work and their comfort. And 40 years? Wow.
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  • Posted by eddieh 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Remember it's now non-fiction. Many people live lives much like Hank and Lillian and can't seem to be able to find a Dagney.
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi there, I'm the one who said I feel Hank is the only one who develops in the novel. I defend that by pointing out he changes his life and way of thinking as he is guided by Dagny and Francisco. End-of-book Hank would not be capable of many of the moral actions of early-book Hank, and vice versa.
    I suppose Cheryl Brooks/Taggart develops too, but I don't count her as a main character.

    I don't view Dagny's realization that she can't reach society as development, merely an acknowledgement that her more-skilled opponent (Galt) has won. They're like two great athletes playing tennis with the fate of America throughout the book. Galt keeps striking balls towards her that are harder and harder to return, until she realizes she's not going to win this game, but like the badass she is, go down fighting.

    Also, it sounds like you and your wife had almost nine wonderful years together. Sorry it couldn't have been more.
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    indeed. so if rockymtnpirate ever finds a Hank she wants despite the Lillian, she may have to go all "Dagny" on him. ...and by that I mean sit down for a perfectly rational discussion of his motives and goals in life.
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  • Posted by lmarrott 10 years, 7 months ago
    I've been reading AS out loud to my wife here and there for quite some time and last night we read the piece where they are having Thanksgiving dinner. Hank is really starting to figure out their twisted minds and I just love it when he finally tells his brother to keep his mouth shut or he'll be gone. One of those very rewarding moments when he says something the reader could have expected at the beginning.
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    'You know you're right but you don't know why you're right and everybody around you says you're wrong.' = quote of the week.

    How many of us have been there? Many in the Gulch I'm sure.
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