I did say that I couldn't recollect and credited Kaila :)

In any event, aside from noting the citation, the point being made is still there. Isn't Bitcoin the opposite of that which praised about the distinction between America/Americans and the old world?

Actually that quote came from Francisco's money speech in Atlas Shrugged - 4 years before For The New Intellectual was published.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose—because it contains all the others—the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.’ No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity—to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.
"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide—as, I think, he will.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns—or dollars. Take your choice—there is no other—and your time is running out."

There really isn't much more governments can do other than to "ban" it in their country, which just ends up turning a bunch of their citizens into "criminals". There is not really a way for government to regulate it at it's core, they can only stifle the development of exchanges and financial products that can spurn from Bitcoin.

Cool K. Thanks. I haven't seen your comments in a bit.

Your statement of trading value being tied to the need to launder dirty money is patently false. That was one common early use of cryptocurrency, but a very small use for it now.

Offloading Bitcoins is extraordinarily easy. There are many exchanges located all of the world, including regulated exchanges in the United States that allow you to sell (convert) your Bitcoins into U.S. Dollars, or any other currency you wish.

Putting all of you life savings in any one thing is never a good idea. So, no, I wouldn't recommend putting your life savings in Bitcoin. Diversify.

Non-governmental, non-regulated liquid currency. It is protected by gobs of crypto (bitcoin mining), It is backed like a stock. Its value is very high because people want to use it, and continue to want it more. If you don't like it's volatile value, keep you money in another currency and use bitcoin when you want a private transaction...of course buying bitcoin will not be private on one side.

There are many ways to use or convert Bitcoin. Some are under the prying eyes of the government and some are not. Even if you use a reputable exchange like Coinbase, it is still up to you to report it "properly" on your taxes. Specifically in the U.S., Bitcoin is treated as a capital gains asset, not a currency. Any time you buy something with Bitcoin or convert it to US dollars, you are supposed to report it as income if you saw a gain. It is a little more protected than money in a bank account, because it is harder for the government to "seize" Bitcoin depending on how you are storing it.

Yes exactly. Most people do not realize that nothing other than the "full faith and credit of the U.S." backs our current monetary system in America. Other than the fact that at this very moment more people "believe in" the US Dollar than Bitcoin, there is very little difference in the two. Both are essentially bullshit. I however choose to put more faith in a free market money system than a government backed money. But I also invest in bullets as well, knowing "the lights" could go out someday....

Got 'em all!!!!

EXCELLENT question. That is why we also should collect guns and bullets as the ultimate form of currency.

No one knows who created it, governs it or if they might switch it off for some reason. It sounds riskier to me than the counterfeit fiat currency we are forced to use. It works only so long as the confidence in the coin exists, hence the name 'con game.' I think it is less reliable but that is like comparing one serial killer to another. . . .which is worse?

Thanks to Kaila Halling for helping me to recollect this quote

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose—because it contains all the others—the fact that they were the people who created the phrase “to make money.” No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity—to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created." p. 93, The Meaning of Money, For the New Intellectual."

The very nature of bitcoin, how it is design to function, by anonymous programmers, creates a fixed amount of wealth (a static quantity), creating deliberate scarcity similar to the notion that there is one pie and everyone is working/struggling to get it.

"Bitcoins are mathematically generated as the computers in this network execute difficult number-crunching tasks, a procedure known as Bitcoin “mining”. The mathematics of the Bitcoin system were set up so that it becomes progressively more difficult to “mine” Bitcoins over time, and the total number that can ever be mined is limited to around 21 million. There is therefore no way for a central bank to issue a flood of new Bitcoins and devalue those already in circulation." http://www.economist.com/bitcoinexpla...

Is this not the fixed amount of wealth, created by anonymous people, that goes against "to make money" that the quote above celebrates?

I am not against Bitcoins, however I do remember junk bonds, and the dot com bubble bursts. People are converting actual money, creating debt, to get something that simply does not exist, and never has existed, outside the fact that a group of people believe it has value.

It's trading value generally follows the need to launder dirty money (the primary purpose for it).

Bitcoin is one of the most volatile commodities out there - because it has no underlying assets. Granted the dollar doesn't either, but at least it's backed by the 'full faith and credit of the US Government' and anyone take a dollar for something.

Try to offload those bitcoins somewhere... not very easy to actually do I'm sure.

To each their own, but I'm old enough to have remembered many rises and falls of many markets. I'm considerably more careful with my life's savings - as all Gen X'ers are. We have too often been stuck holding the bag and paying for it for the Boomers and the Millennials it seems like.

It was worth 8 cents in July of 2010, then $1.00 in Feb 2011, $31.00 in July of 2011, and $2.00 in December of 2011. It's interest follows the news cycle running some story about it, and how many terrorists want to transmit some form of untraceable currency at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...

While someone that bought at 8 cents is no-doubt very happy right now, there is still the question of what you can actually do with it. Converting it into tangible goods or services can be quite difficult.

An "interesting" point to consider is whether or not the economic powers of the ever encroaching "New World Order" will allow the democratization of "money" to continue?

How will these "lockstep" central bankers continence such a way to circumvent the "bankers" control? My guess is that the powers that be will not allow that to happen therefore, Bitcoin and other "crypto" currencies might succumb to the control of these powerful entities.

Interesting point to be noted! There are now only three world economies that "DO NOT" have a Central Bank presence? These three (interestingly) are; North Korea, Cuba and Iran. There were until recently four with the 4th being Syria. Isn't it funny, we are essentially at varying states of war with all three of the remaining?!

World domination can only happen if the Bankers will it (remember, they make money by making loans and the best loans are to made to governments and the best way of making large loans to governments is to get countries into a perpetual state of war!). Note: During the American Civil War, the Bank of London lent to both the North as well as the South! Keeping the war going worked to their advantage because of political leverage and wealth accumulation!

There you have it folks! The Central Banks have the Con and the rest is going to be easy (for the NWO that is)!

As I see the point you pose, is it more or less reasonable to believe in Bitcoin then the dollar, neither of which are backed by anything tangible? Just so no one misunderstands what I mean about the dollar, years ago the US paper currency had a statement on it that it was redeemable in lawful money at the Treasury or Federal Reserve. That statement is no longer on US paper currency. The people who do redeem paper currency are those who trust it as a value in exchange for services and products they provide. The government accepts it in payments to itself and will not give you anything tangible in exchange for it (other then not putting you in jail for not paying taxes or such.)

How do Bitcoins protect one's wealth from the grasping hands of governments? Don't governments impose income or sales taxes when the Bitcoins are converted into government backed currency or products? Most of us do not how to transact on the black market.

...and my question is, what happens when the electricity goes out? For good? My silver will still be silver..........

Yes

I think to those of us who have "faith" in Bitcoin, it boils down to the principle of what it represents. Bitcoin cannot exist without individuals believing in the morality and necessity of a decentralized money system. It doesn't have to specifically be Bitcoin, but the entire concept of this takes power away from government, politicians, and banks, and puts the power squarely in the hands of each individual end user who decides they want to use it. It is the closest thing we have had to a truly free market monetary system since the move away from gold and silver coins, and it is MUCH more practical in a modern computerized age.

Just because that is what the media is reporting does not mean that is bitcoin's major use.

It survives because it cannot be stopped, short of blacking out the internet.

So you will only allow your opinion of Bitcoin to be controlled by what you read in the headlines of media? There are many major reasons for hearing about Bitcoin, however the mainstream media has no reason to discuss them unless they are sensationally negative (hackers, etc.). There are thousands of articles written by smaller media outlets that discuss the exciting monetary paradigm transformation that Bitcoin will likely produce. Don't listen to only what is thrust in front of you.

I think most realists expect government controllers to eventually regulate away the beauty, efficiency and value of crypto currencies into oblivion. But until they do, there is an unparalleled gold rush of profiteering happening. The dream of a totally decentralized currency sells itself.

While I like the concept of a currency that is not dependent on a government, until the major reason for hearing about Bitcoin is no longer about some hacker holding companies hostage until their ransom is paid in Bitcoin, Bitcoin will remain a footnote.

Okay, but that doesn't answer any questions or ease any of my concerns.

from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin)

"Bitcoin is a worldwide cryptocurrency and digital payment system invented by an unknown programmer, or a group of programmers, under the name Satoshi Nakamoto. It was released as open-source software in 2009.

The system is peer-to-peer, and transactions take place between users directly, without an intermediary. These transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called a blockchain. Since the system works without a central repository or single administrator, bitcoin is called the first decentralized digital currency.

Besides being created as a reward for mining, bitcoin can be exchanged for other currencies, products, and services in legal or black markets."


Reading its general description (yes, I know its wikipedia) raises more red flags than confidence with me. No one knows who made it, set blocks are made who's distribution halves every so often, and there is nothing tangible about it... Yay! its at 4,000??????

Anyone else see problems with this?