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  • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good enough, lrshultis. But for one thing was a bad start with "nearly anyone opts for a forceful government'

    "Opting" was Never the case. It all begins with our forebears, who made all our choices for us. Opting was never part of any scheme.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Too true! But then, the whole "system" is rigged by the PTB, largely the Dem-Rep Monopoly. They've managed to make competition impossible.
    Posters spend all day, every day, seeking to "fix" things, all to no avail.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    'It seems to me' is a phrase often found in Atlas Shrugged. Might want to choose a different phrase such as. 'Evidence suggests' or 'I believe that' A small point perhaps but valid. If you don't agree then how do you derive 'many people think?' I would have said ' Many people refuse to think using the implications of.....as an excuse not to think.' I know is much more powerful than I think as Knowledge is much more powerful than suggested substitutes.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
    Answer - they have refused humanity and abandoned the responsibilities of being human and the themselves to the whims of others.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Many excellent points made. It has been said the average person operates 95 percent of the time in the subconscious mind. Since that information was very revealing I have been trying to increase the conscious brain activity percentage. If the measurement were to be taken again We could be averaging 94.996633 percent. Every journey starts with 1 step.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 4 months ago
    As I mentioned elsewhere here recently...The American people want to be forced. They're ready for it. They crave it. It's like I'm living in The Body Snatchers. People, for the most part, have forgotten that they have their own mind, their own lives.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Force has become accepted as a means of dealing with people, usually today in the name of being "practical", i.e., under Pragmatism that regards statism as a legitimate "tool" for whatever they think "works". Of course they want to be governed by force, they lack the self confidence of their own ability to think and act with integrity. That is how they become so submissive: "Who am I to judge?"
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes but it has to be assessed in the same way as any improper action or thinking. It can range from a subtle mistake while otherwise being rational and objective, to a dishonest evasion like a slippery lawyer or propagandist, or an habitual non-objective method of thought adopted implicitly or explicitly on principle like a Medieval Scholastic's tortured rationalizing anything from a god to the number of angels on the head of a pin. Particularly prevalent today is academic rationalism, which is practically indoctrinated as way of explaining or arguing in education, right through graduate school where in some fields it intensifies. It doesn't have to just be making an excuse for an action. (I don't know why someone downvoted your question.)
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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with you that blaming biology for our own actions is a cop-out. We each have to take responsibility, even for things we do "on automatic."

    However, rationalization itself is the most common thing we do "on automatic." Anytime you stop paying attention, it happens. And nobody can pay attention all the time.

    The lesson, for me at least, is don't assume something I believe is grounded in reason just because I already believe it. A lot of times, I already believe things because of laziness. So everything should be open to reexamination.

    Faith (whether religious or not) gets one into the bad habit of assuming some beliefs should never be reexamined. But it's not the only way to get there.
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  • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello, jdg,

    First, I agree with you and am entirely convinced that life spontaneously started on Earth (and elsewhere?) and evolved all the way up to the humans.

    I believe that every time I am tempted to come up with an excuse for an action, I am aware of that temptation and always consciously know if my action is based on reason or on a subconscious impulse, or on untruth. In shortage of time, we know that we are pressed to take action without an objective evaluation. We make a gamble (pro versus amateur?) and certainly know that we are doing it. When we knowingly pretend that there is a rational explanation justifying an action that should not have been taken, in my opinion, we are being unethical.
    My main objection goes to the excuse: "Devil made me do it!" In my mind that comes from twin roots of fear and irrational faith.

    Fear makes people stop thinking. I think that most instinctive fear-inspired actions are to protect self and closest of kin. I think that those come directly from the most fundamental attributes of life: procreation, replication and self-preservation. But these impulses do not cause initiation of force. They are defensive.

    The irrational faith, I think, comes from a rational desire to quickly explain the unknown. In some way the irrational faith is an ultimate rationalization: "to convince oneself or others that something is true or justified when it has no such basis" (see ewv above).

    I am having real trouble with substituting "Devil made me do it!" excuse with the one that sounds more or less: " That is the way I am built!"

    Finally, I think that our reason must control our actions. I have met many people who "decide" and then still do nothing.

    Yes, I do assert that rationalizations, the way ewv and you define them are unethical efforts.

    EDIT: separated paragraphs.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    9/11
    I was on my way to talk at a discussion group primarily composed of libs. It was the quietest group ever. Usually I would get at least 5 or 6 questions. Didn't get one. Got home early.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I was too young to vote for Kennedy but like most I can tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing in detail when the news got to my ears. The second time that happened was 9/11. Early in the morning in the restaurant of the Red Lion in Astoria the TV Was on no one was speaking. I finally asked Die Hard Part IV? That's how realistic it was. Reaction? Went back to my boat fired up the engine cast off the dock lines and forgot the shore power cord. Tied up and bought another night. Went back to the TV. Some days it pays to do nothing until the shock wears off. Next day down the coast to Tillamook. Just in time to hear they might close up not only air travel but train and no offshore boating. Garibaldi is not where you want to get stuck. So I pulled out and went to Newport instead. Much more civilized. Sometimes force smacks you in the face.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I twice read all of "Atlas Shrugged" when I got it about 1963, and decided right that it would serve well as my "bible". I believe I own every book Ayn Rand ever wrote.

    You might consider elaborating your thoughts on my website, as to "confusing or ambiguous". and perhaps reading more there to clarify.

    At this point, I truly believe that altruism and blind faith are so huge in bringing us to collapse which will result in abandoning government as a not-viable and immoral pathway for mankind.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Some where I read that most of that generation became yuppies and are now telling their children or grand children turn that damn rap crap OFF! Why don't you listen to real music???
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Is it possible? Sometimes I am too much the cynical realist and dwell on the reality of now instead the possible. Like walking a tight rope that keeps going down.

    My take is it would require a massive tune up on the mind set and would still involve separating wheat from chaff.

    Chief among the changes is some way to control definitions without being too controlling so I thought of a self controlling system.

    If I may I'll use language as a way of expressing that.

    a. English is the major language
    b. Spanish is secondary

    put another way the Eastern Hemisphere has well over a hundred in Europe the same in Asia and 100 in China alone. Africa not quite as bad.

    Western Hemisphere three that are important.

    1. Spanish
    2. English
    3 Brazileno Portuguese

    Two target audiences. Those who are here and speak only rudimentary English Those who are arriving.

    Side trip. people pick up bottles and cans if there is a refund of deposit. In Singapore they do it or face a fine then a lashing.

    Carrot and stick

    For people in the country mandatory one foreign language in public schools. An immigrant arrives speaking English and Spanish or any other good to go.

    For Any government service English and one other required or ecven English, Spanish and one other. Military included.

    Military runs there own schools and will whip out that requirement within the year be done in three.

    Two languages requried for education assistance.

    The osmosis effect takes the path of least resistance. Spanish is by far the easiest. No lack of instructors.

    Schools required to teach English prior to attendance in other classes.

    How long does it take? If done right one week to two weeks using the Total Immersion system. Use of public school or other buildings partial immersion four weeks level one fluency.

    Side benefit Spanish then becomes the defacto second language to English the de facto first language. English I recall is not de jure.

    The melting pot is fired up language is no longer a barrier.

    Same principles change other sorts of cultural mind sets.

    Learn two or even three you own the western hemisphere.

    can't fulfill the American dream when you are slave to those who know the language.

    Nothing new to this Berlitz invented the system and routinely does 2000 words all tenses, speak , read, write, comprehend in six days of 12 hours.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think you are thinking of his Restoring The American Dream (1975).
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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As I understand the word, to "rationalize" something you've done (or a decision you've made, even if it's just to defend a belief) is to make up rational-sounding reasons for it and then pretend that those reasons led to the decision, when the decision not only happened first but most likely wasn't made rationally or even consciously.

    This happens because it is the way we evolved to operate. It's quite possible to do the reasoning first, when you have time, but you don't always have it; and even when you do, gut feelings which are not rational will resist being overridden, and you'll find reasons to go along with them.

    To me this is all a strong argument in favor of evolution and against creation (or intelligent design). God the Designer would probably have put our reason in complete charge, and it is not.

    Martimus -- I am not asserting that rationalizations are or are not ethical, nor that reason is less than desirable. I am merely asserting that it is easy for us to misattribute to reason decisions that we made from the gut, and that this can lead us to draw conclusions that make no sense. It would be ideal if our reason could be in control of our decisions all the time, but that isn't possible because of the way we're built.
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  • Posted by Maritimus 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello, ewv,
    Thank you. What you say to me means that all rationalizations in this context are unethical. Is that true?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the chuckle. Not that I doubt it. There's an element of that at every convention for every profession or cause. When I was in the camera biz, I could tell you every manufacturer or distributor who would be only too happy to provide you with escorts, or the "classier" -- "hostesses." One even rented a huge catamaran that supplied drinks and hostesses and order forms.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It was my business to know about R&R. With my son, we published, among other things, bios of rock stars in comic book form.
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