You're right - we DO need a Galt's Gulch. Problem: where will we be able to establish or find one?

She also alluded to in her book that there is an historical context about "opening the granaries" to the citizens of Rome (a reference to the Senate's growing propensity of "buying votes") much as is done today as seen in our trillion dollar welfare state.

Again, the context is to the shift of the Roman mindset and virtue (who Rand saw in Cicero being "an old Roman") from being republican (small r) to embracing the "decaying" democratic form (buying votes) which of course led to the institutional need for a "Caesar" and ultimately, the rule of tyrants and dictators going forward.

Remember, it was Caldwell's main premise that Rome was at it's zenith under the republic led first by Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus who was a farmer but also who also exemplified the virtues of the "Citizen" soldier and statesman (of which he was both). This, as opposed to the "professional or ruling elite that became the slow poison of the Republic and its virtues, very similar to the Washington "Beltway" mentality..

Again, this is a direct parallel to the period (written about by Caldwell) where many of us believe we are at today. For these reasons her message is a timeless warning to future generations to heed the signs of this form of societal collapse from within. Her perspective being similar in many ways to Ayn Rand. They each just approached these underlying ills from a different perspectives.

Yes. I agree it is in character with what we know Cicero did say. The message is still spot on. My one reservation is on the words 'assistance to foreign lands' as Romans did not see the role of the state as charity to outsiders. If someone can show that Rome did provide such assistance then I will stand corrected.
Later, some emperors put on 'bread and circuses' but that was internal, I saw a ref to aqueducts in Spain, but who paid? and Spain was ruled by Rome anyway.

the answer to that question is quite simple. Ever since the late 40's at least, Stalin put special emphasis on "co-opting" Hollywood. Its left leaning ways actually went back to the 1930's with the early love affair with communism prior to its split with Nazis Germany. Going forward, part of Gramsci' plan included the use of various tools with which to subdue the US, Hollywood was an early convert to "Progressivism" hence the message has been put forward incessantly ever since.

The messages often times are quite subtle however the net effect is the successful "brainwashing" of an entire nation. You can check this out for yourself! Why do you think that Atlas had to be done on a shoestring and without the blessings of the Cabal in power within the industry?

For what its worth!

that may be so however it does not negate the wisdom that Caldwell put forward based heavily on her study of Cicero, his writings and speeches. She, being a historical novelist is permitted to add her spin and interpretation on the time period that was arguably the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic. Historically, I believe that this point in time can easily be tracked back to Cicero and the rise of the first of the Caesars. This statement that has been around for 50 or so years is an admonition that we all should pay heed to for the efficacy of the message. Regardless of whether or not Cicero actually uttered those exact words is almost not important now is it?

Which part of the wisdom should we take her to task on?

Taylor Caldwell is the originator. It comes from her historical novel on Cicero.
The message is in character (IMO) but there is no evidence that Cicero said that.

From
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_b...
I found good discussion including this
----------------
The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing this year the greatest amount of free Meals and Food Stamps ever, to 46 million people.
Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because "The animals will grow dependent on handouts and will learn not to take care of themselves."
-- J Carlton, Calgary
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Back to Rome- the army was run as what we would a profit center, that is conquest, plunder and tribute, there was no assistance to foreign lands.

Yes, isn't it true! But how many will heed? I just hope.

I think a good mini series would be to follow whats happened in Venezuela so we can see whats in store for us. I agree with the frog analogy. If Texas seceded I would move there now, tho.

"why do the people of Venezuela put up with socialism" ....because they are like the Frog in the pot that got the heat turned up slowly.....the heat is now starting to kill them. They are trying to do something but the oligarchy doesn't want to let go and as a result the situation is close to the point that armed insurrection may be necessary. It is easy to talk about that sort of thing....but entirely a different matter when you personally are faced with that. especially when part of turning up the heat has been the confiscation of firearms. Especially when you look at the wife and kids! We are in the process of having the heat turned up slowly now....Obama is working to disarm us. [This would really be more relevant on one of the gun threads...but i am answering your post the best i can, the point i am making is that we may soon be where they are!]

jeez, why do the people of venezuela put up with socialism. It obviously doesnt work !! Are they stupid, or just blind. Same is true of Obamination right here. Medical care costs far more now than it did before Obamacare, but there isnt the huge outcry that there should be.

All those nut-bag Hollywood types may be commies at heart....but they do know how to make a good movie. Why they are such flaming Reds is beyond me, they put millions at risk investing in making a movie, get sucked dry by the movie unions, just like real Capitalists. Why they don't wise up after being humped like they do by the moochers I really don't understand. Perhaps Communism is a religion!

I rate movies of that kind by their ability to "lose me into the story" such that its like I am in the story living it in real time. Good dialogue, choice of cast, and great directing make that happen. Thats why Spielberg makes the big bucks. Brian Singer is also a lesser known but great director (Xmen, Apt Pupil and others).

AS 1 was like that for me, but AS2 and AS3 had things that dumped me out of the story. In AS3, the cars had regular pickup trucks with Colorado license plates, and the gulch houses had commercial refrigerators and fancy furniture. If Atlantis was so hidden and hard to find, how would they get all that stuff there in the first place, and who would actually put Colorado license plates on the vehicles ?? Made no sense to me.

Read Caldwell many years ago. From what I can remember, nowhere near the power, the insight, or the philosophical content of "Atlas." If anything, perhaps somewhat closer to the "Fountainhead." To make a point, or just for the fun of it, pick a topic from any book by Caldwell and illustrate it with a quote, and I 'll do the same from either the Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged. I think that may illustrate the difference.

Sorry to disagree however you really should read Taylor Caldwell. Several books worth mentioning: Devils Advocate, Pillar of Iron, Dear and Glorious Physician to name but a few......

Absolutely! Taylor Caldwell was very prophetic herself! Her book "Pillar of Iron" gave a great historical perspective on the life and times of Marcus Tullius Cicero. His his admonitions are definitely appropriate for modern times here in the USA. Great political treatises!

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

- Cicero , 55 BC

Hidalgo.

Not be be antagonistic, but the question "WHERE is John Galt" was asked by the very people who were causing all the problems. Remember...he does not respond to "need".

The worst character portrayal was that of Francisco D'ianconia. In the first movie he looked like an indigenous Peruvian. In the later movies he just looked wet behind the ears. His linage was basically Spanish I imagined someone far more mature Spanish and "Dapper" in his appearance. With a thin mustache and very 1950s in appearance. The other disappointment was John Galt....the frigging guy needed a haircut. Maybe I am too old and my perceptions influenced by what leading male actors would have looked like in the 50s when the book was written.

AS 1 was pretty good, but the others just werent up the quality people are accustomed to these days. A mini-series should start at the point where Gulchers went back into society and show how the country can be built back up.

Unfortunately, you are talking to a blank wall at this point in our culture. Most people now just want to get what they can from the government, so long as THEY dont have to pay for it.

Obama wants a disarmed public so he can get away with whatever he wants, and the people have no alternatives.

Rand a prophet?
Indeed, yes. But not someone magically inspired. Rather, a brilliant mind extrapolating a future based on information at hand. But what is even more brilliant is that contained within the story is the solution to the future dread. No other writer has been able to accomplish that with the underlying brilliance of her laser beam brain.

The letter to the editor is spot on. It is scary just how accurate that trilogy has been! The government seems to be using it as a road map as to how to destroy our society by turning it over to the slugs, the takers, looters and the wreckers!

President Obama has embraced the "loser" mentality hopping to turn all of us into losers like his constituency!

We need a Galt's Gulch now more than ever!