Dr. Carson- we finally know his position on guns, and it's good news!

Posted by Non_mooching_artist 10 years ago to News
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Finally! I can let out the breath I've been holding regarding Dr. Carson, and his view regarding ownership of guns and gun rights!
SOURCE URL: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/10/Dr-Ben-Carson-Against-Gun-Registration-Because-We-Should-Be-Really-Concerned-About-Martial-Law


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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years ago
    I like him. He is not perfect, but far superior to what we now are suffering. He will not likely be a candidate for high office. He is not high in the polls relative to other potential candidates, but he is said to have some influence on minorities that would otherwise tend to discount any contrary message aside from what our POTUS is disseminating.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
    I'm concerned that when he was asked about "places like Detroit, where they are mowing people down with AK47's" that he didn't call them on that, since no such event has ever occurred.

    Sure, there was one occasion when a person used a semiauto copy of a AK to defend their home, but that's a far cry from "people mowing people down" like a Hollywood shoot-em-up movie.

    His handlers need to move on getting him to make a very clear statement about separating the anti-gun noise from the truth.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago
    Has anyone else noticed how many Medical doctors have been gaining gravitas in political circles, rather than lawyers. What's up with that?

    As to Carson, he worries me because he's just so caring. His influence against Obamacare is welcoming, though.
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    • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years ago
      I also notice the doctor trend. Obamacare has really pissed them off as well as the whole medical industry where administrators get paid more than the actual practitioners. Doctors continuously see less and less money as their fees get cut and split among managed care firms and PPOs however they are expected to see more and more patients. Obamacare is asking them to see patients that they cannot even confirm coverage for since the implementation has been so screwed up. Essentially docs know they will be providing services for a lot more people and getting paid a lot less or not at all. As far as professionals go, they are extremely regulated on what they can and cannot do and are told by the government what they will get paid per service, if you had to deal with that day in and day out you would be pretty pissed off too.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
        I have never met a more politically unenlightened group of professionals than doctors. The majority of our family and many of our friends are doctors and where they have to apply reason and logic in their field, they completely leave at the office when they think about political and policy oriented discussions. The Pauls are unique.
        I'll never forget a friend of mine, who is a doctor at Mayo, saying they didn't have time to look at every position a candidate had. Then don't vote I replied.
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        • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
          “Then don’t vote I replied”
          I wish that sentiment would catch on.
          I admire your principle but you are no match for Pelosi running around giving addresses to park benches.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
        You're not going to get me to feel badly for doctors. Yes, they come out of medical school with lots of debt, and yes, they pay exhorbitant malpractice insurance rates. But, many (not all, but a significant portion) work 4 day weeks, live in million dollar, and some multi-million dollar homes, and generally are in the upper 5%. While I don't disparage anything that they have received, I'm also not going to fall for their whining. I too am in the 5% but I'm on the road every week, 5 days/wk 50 weeks/yr.
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        • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years ago
          I understand the opinions and sentiments here. I actually work in the medical field and have worked with hundreds of physicians. I have met the ones like you have described. I can say that unless they inherited the money, 100% of doctors like the ones you describe are getting all of that money from side deals with pharma or medical equipment companies. Many doctors are in "the business" of healthcare. They work as consultants and medical directors which pays a whole lot more than actually seeing patients. Many doctors are part of the whole healthcare spending problem as the bad ones realize that keeping people sick is the best way to boost their revenue. Just like in any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I'm not asking anyone to "feel badly" for doctors, my point was simply to state that I have seen many move to a cash for service (at a discount) as a way to circumvent Obamacare and the whole insurance company bureaucracy.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
            the whole thing is a huge mess built on original bad policy issues of state by state insurance regulations, prescription drug debacles with other countries, prescription drug debacles born of the very first HMO policies-which the government pushed as a way to hasten the demise of semi-private system, Medicare and Medicaid which fixed prices for itself, and finally our legal system which had med-mal spinning out of control. so many things to dismantle and unravel. I think the cash systems are a good alternative. HOwever, it's near impossible to get a hospital on board with that. kinda makes you wish for the days of private pool insurance.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
            Now the cash payment option raises a whole different issue.

            My personal opinion is that healthcare insurance has itself caused most of the problems in the healthcare field. It really isn't insurance anymore, it is pre-paid healthcare services. As such, like with anything, people are inclined to try to use as much of it as they can, since it is a fixed cost to them (starting at zero). Unfortunately, the regulatory environment even before the ACA, and now after where it has been amped up multiple times, was such that true catastrophic insurance was difficult to obtain.

            It infuriates me that there are "Canada Drug" purchasing syndicates that take advantage of the regulated pricing in Canada and import those drugs to the US. They provide lower cost drugs which drives up (or at least lengthens the duration of) costs in order to recoup R&D and the costs of approval.
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      • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
        Military backgrounds should start to make an appearance on the political scene as well.

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        • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
          Mimi.... Ever notice how few engineers are in that 'scene'?

          Maybe it's their propensity for logical thought and their aversion to bullshit arguments...

          and yes, I have a degree in engineering... :)
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          • Posted by xthinker88 10 years ago
            Kid: But you can't operate in this environment using such rigid principles.

            Rearden: Try pouring a ton of steel without rigid principles. (or building a bridge, or making a huge metal object that successfully flies through the sky in one fell swoop)
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          • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
            It would be a bonus to have one engineer to figure out where the cornerstone of the Capital building was placed, but somehow we managed to get by all this time without knowing. :)
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            • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
              I didn't notice any <humor> tags in that reply, Mimi, so I want to know if you really believe that 'cornerstone identification' would be pretty much all an engineer would bring to the party (ten inpunded...)? Were you joking, or do you really not know what's involved in 'engineering thinking or training'?
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              • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                It wasn’t a veiled attack. It was a joke. I have always wanted to know where the cornerstone was located. It was originally put in by Masons using a formal ceremony--but overtime, the location has been lost. I haven’t really given any thought to what an engineer could bring or not bring to the political arena.

                What do you think?
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                • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
                  Thanks for the clarification. :)

                  In an oversimplified nutshell, engineers' jobs are to design, discover or identify solutions to whatever problems they're given.

                  They can and should evaluate a wide range of potential techniques or methods and choose the best one or ones to POTENTIALLY meet the challenge. Usually, then, someone else picks the 'best one' based on constraints of time, money, resources features and tradeoffs.

                  MY personal gripe on the subject is that I believe that the plethora of lawyers in nationally elected offices may have all the chops for writing laws and debating them but do NOT have anywhere near the mindset and training to do what I would call the rational, logical, critical thinking EVALUATION of alternatives BEFORE they 'choose the winning solution.'

                  e.g., 'Poverty is the problem! People don't have enough money! Give them money!'

                  And the general electorate, also not thinking like that, sends the lawmakers back into office with high regularity and then bitches at them with traditionally low approval ratings for Congress (in general.)

                  Just a tiny cognitive dissonance there that Woof Blister will never discuss in his Situation Room. Or Mr. 360 or anyone else. Especially voters or the mass media.

                  Engineers, of course, are human... well, most of us, I think... <humor> but can be easily thwarted by levels of management which take the 'engineering solutions' and modify or discard them based on Non-Critical Thinking or their own prejudices and not by rational evaluation of features, benefits and alternatives. Been there, seen that throughout 34 years with two technology companies, 1968-2002.

                  Many folks may argue that I'm wrong about these opinions and beliefs, but I've never had to go far in conversations to discover the resulting dissatisfaction or upset folks have because of this exact phenomenon.

                  I often call it "The Question Behind The Question," when congressmonkeys or local officials or mass media immediately debate the 'obvious solution' to whatever problem is articulated, without ANY effort to ask, "But WHY does THAT happen in the first place?!", which almost always BEGINS to lead us to discovery of the Real ROOT CAUSE of the 'problem.'

                  Teach that in schools and, though it'll still take some decades to 'cure it,' I believe that it's probably one of the only possible ways to reverse the trends of today (including many of the topics we discuss here!)

                  :)
                  Thanks, again!
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                  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago
                    plusaf, you make some good points, but I take a small exception to your nutshell description of engineering. In my career, the definition was much more 'to take pure science and develop applications of it to real world problems.' And in a majority of situations I found that it was very much my job to identify, determine and resolve problems in ways to fit the facts of a situation with logic and common sense. But I also stayed out of design rooms. I preferred the real world.
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                    • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
                      Zen.. no argument at all... I said I was trying to cram it into a tiny nutshell... I agree with you!

                      Although I did make friends with some design-types at both companies and found a few that could learn some new views AND could teach me some new things, too! But... just a few.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
          I'm curious as to your rationale.
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          • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
            Well, the idea is that those in the medical field are affected by changes in policy and that is what is driving them to run for office.
            There have also been many changes in how the military is run over the last thirty years. Obama’s administration has made many sweeping changes to how the military is run. Sooner or later, somebody is going to want to offset those changes.

            It use to be that it was difficult to get elected to office without having served in some manner, no matter what your political affiliation. But in this bread and circus environment, comedians can be elected --like Al Franken.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
              Many (if not most) senior military members end up being collectivist. I think that it comes from being taken care of their entire career. When you get most everything from uncle sugar, that just seems to be normal.

              I have many former classmates who are now at the ends of their careers. Went to a reunion a couple of years back and was amazed at the perspective of those still in compared to those who got out.

              Besides, political office requires compromise. That's not something that most in the military are comfortable with. You are either giving orders, or taking them and executing. While there is often collaboration, most are conditioned to make decisions, not be wishy-washy.
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              • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                What did you think of Eisenhower?
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                • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                  One of the best presidents that we had. His view of the responsibilities was that he was to direct the execution of the government, not much more. And that's how he governed. Other than the interstate highway system, nobody points to any big programs during that time period. That's a good thing.
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                  • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                    The interstate highway speaks to the general he was. Being able to move troops takes a certain skill set. ;)

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                    • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
                      ... and to move troops, if that's one of your important goals, the right infrastructure is needed. Great solution and great thinker. Probably still my favorite President of all.
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                      • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                        You know he designed the concrete flower pots for the Old Executive building too. :) He definitely was constructive with his time in office.
                        I guess now-a-days that seems corny, but every time I pass that building, I reflect on the simple craftsmanship of those pots as if they were priceless,.doric columns.
                        Of course, Eisenhower was before my time. ;)

                        My mother worked under his general staff at the war dept years before I was born.
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                        • Posted by 10 years ago
                          That's really interesting. She must have had some interesting stories from then.
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                          • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                            Actually, she never talked about it. Avoided it out of habit, I think. She was responsible for making the calls to the families when a soldier was killed or injured. Because of the nature of the job she would have had direct access at the time to our troops locations and movements.

                            “Loose lips, sink ships”

                            She did mention that MacArthur saw her walking, stopped and picked her and another girl up in his jeep, then gave them a lift to work once.
                            She mentioned Patton often, but never came to the point. She would start:
                            “That Patton, one time he...”
                            Then she would fall into a fit of laughter and end it with: “We all loved him, He was crazy.”
                            We never got the details. Lol.
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                            • Posted by 10 years ago
                              Wise woman to keep her lips "zipped", then. That she interacted with Patton! And got a lift from MacArthur! Too cool! Lame word, but really, it sort of fits here. :-)
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                              • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
                                Oh, I’m not sure if she ever had any interaction directly with Patton. I just think she heard first hand stories from the front. Patton was a celeb of sorts. But maybe she did? I dk. She kept her mouth shut till she died.
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        • Posted by g4lt 10 years ago
          Doubt it, there are veterans who are in politics, but they're generally either A) Exceptional in that they don't mention it much or B) in SERIOUSLY connected families, like the McCains and Kerreys. The problem is there's a small bloc that's openly hostile to veterans and a large bloc that's covertly hostile to veterans. The small bloc is the SERIOUS peace activists, which can't really do much, but can make some embarrasing stunts, the large bloc is the christian conservatives that don't want kids leaving the churches for military service at just the time when they're most impressionable (cf Mormons and the military, they CAN substitute military service for their compulsory missions, they just rarely actually DO). EVERY veteran watched the "swift-boating" incident with shock as a weekend warrior was considered braver than an actual combat vet: not many veterans are going to wish that upon their worst enemies, much less themselves
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          • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
            I would say the bible belt and certainly South Carolina home of the Southern Baptist provide and have provided more new recruits per family then anywhere in the nation. Those numbers have probably have flipped in recent years because of Obama’s pushed to quietly change the face of the new recruit.

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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
            Why would you say that Christian conservatives are anti-military?

            And I don't think that any veteran looks at the honest disclosure of John Kerry's military and post military conduct as a detriment to political service. I know that I sure don't.
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            • Posted by g4lt 10 years ago
              The problem is that the swift-boating wasn't honest. When people said they trusted an admitted deserter's characterization of service over an actual combat vet's, one has to wonder how those priorities got so skewed, the main answer to that being "if you do more, there's more for them to target". Thus veterans get extra negative attention for doing things they needed to do, causing a chilling effect on others that may have not quite healed as well as they'd like.

              As for the Christian Conservatives being anti-military, buying a ribbon magnet from a third-party vendor is pretty much the nadir of anti-militarism when there's plenty of charities like the USO and Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society that could actually USE the money to aid the troops
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  • Posted by iroseland 10 years ago
    I had just figured he spent a lifetime being a kick ads neurosurgeon. The result, he hasn't spent much time contemplating policy. Given that, he is allowed to figure hints out in real time. Instead of nearly flipflopping he is giving reasons as to why he thinks things and proving he is thinking about them. These are all good things.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
    Well, I can applaud the rationale, but the basis is coming from the wrong place. While we do need to retain our rights to firearms to protect us from the coming oppression, these are fundamental rights established in our constitution.
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  • Posted by monalisaturberville1957 10 years ago
    I believe we as Americans should be armed. It is our right. The problem is that they know they have screwed up big time and about to do more. If they continue to allow us to have our guns then we might decide to get rid of them all. Fear is a desperate thing. They are desperate as well they should be. WE are a people that are not going to take much more and they realize that fact to be firm.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years ago
    Dr. Carson is the man! You can parse every sentence, phrase and word and read them into his statements all you want, but he is the best non-politician politician we have on "our side." His words aren't polished and gone over like a professional's, and he's never been a political figure so he may say things in a certain way that makes word-pickers nervous. But, he is intelligent, he uses reason, he's not a lawyer, and he understands the basic principles of America and its exceptionalism. To date, he is in my mind, an exceptional candidate for any political office he might choose up to and including president. I'm sick of the squirmy rhetoric of lawyers, on any side of any issue. He may be inexperienced in politics, but he is intelligent, he has courage and a self confidence that virtually jumps right out at you. He came to our attention without the slightest intention of running for any office, yet his voice and ideals have been inspirational.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 10 years ago
      Re: Herb7734,
      You gave the perfect description of Dr. Carson of what makes him so special. Sadly, I doubt if he would make it through the primary election due to his honesty and integrity. In a world where destruction of your opponents is the way elections are won, Dr. Carson would surely not want to engage in such conduct.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years ago
        You're right. Nowadays, just the thought that a man of intelligence and integrity wants to run for political office is enough to cast rueful suspicion on him and his motives. But in this case, we have a non-politico who has already had a successful career and was the top guy in his field. Impossible as it seems, it has been done 2 years before an election many years ago Some politicians got together and formed a new party. They chose a dark horse who had failed many times to run for office(s). Somehow Lincoln and the newly formed Republican party won. One good thing Obama has done is to wake up a nearly comatose electorate and shown them that who you vote for really does make a difference.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
      Well, I would be a bit concerned about P. I mean look at the amateur that we have now. I'd prefer somebody with some international policy thinking in their background.
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
    My last comments on Ben Carson a couple weeks ago:
    "I kind of like his answer. It’s reasoned. Why can’t both sides sit down and discuss their fears? He expressed what his personal views are toward assault weapons, but perhaps after learning more about the issue he will acknowledge that his views would have to take a back-seat to what people want or perhaps his views will evolve. I trust him to take the right steps.”

    He just demonstrated he is capable of evolving his opinion quickly. That’s fantastic! I think he is a viable candidate for President. But before we go that route he needs to stop talking about the issues that are only part of the dog and pony show, like gay rights, and the war on women. Republicans continually allow themselves to get sucked into that vortex. Carson needs to give us some sense of his interest or knowledge of global concerns and foreign policies.Republicans need to learn how to drive the conversation.
    Carson gets the gun issue. Good job.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      He has come to that viewpoint not from pressure, but from a thinking perspective. I would not trust his words if he had simply back pedaled because of political pressure. He gave this some serious consideration, and came to this conclusion because it rationally is correct. And he admits what his views on guns were, before having considered all of the pertinent ramifications of having a certain segment of the populace disarmed. I respect that, more than an illogical about face that has not thought behind it except as a strategic move politically.

      I saw an interview he gave on Monday morning, and he unequivocally stated that he has no political aspirations unless there are no viable conservative candidates anywhere. Which is currently, at least so it seems, not the case.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years ago
    "I truly believe in Second Amendment rights," Carson said. "I would never advocate anything to interfere with Second Amendment rights; however, I do think we have to be intelligent." Anytime I hear the the phrase "however I do think we have to be intelligent," I think the speaker means confiscation.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years ago
      You caught that too? Call me paranoid, but to me it sounds like someone leading into "I won't restrict or opress your right to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed by the second amendemnt, except for the following, because it's just common sense that "everybody" shouldn't have firearms... only those deemed to have earned that privilege... and proved to the government they're safe enough to have that privilege." I think we're there already.

      So, how many of your rights, freedoms, and responsibilities are YOU willing to trade for some "intelligent security" as someone else dictates? How much of a nanny state, either overt or covert, do you desire? Because, we should be intelligent and let our gov'ment (who knows its more intelligent than we the people) decide whats good and bad for us... right?

      If questions like that make you hot under the collar... If the above made you ill... DO NOT swallow what ANY politician or candidate says at face value... and be very careful when you listen to *any* politician on any side. Even (or especially) your own.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Mmmmm. I used to take a 5qt ice cream bucket and scoop out the milk for the house from the bulk tank. Had to skim the cream away to get a good scoop. My grandmother would churn her own butter. She also made "flat bread" from scratch. Slathering freshly made butter on a hunk of warm bread - mmm, mmm, good! Didn't get much better than that.
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  • Posted by jmassman 10 years ago
    And other things, too. Re' MD's: My professors advised us students: "Listen to your patient & he/she will tell you the diagnosis -- confirm it with the PE & lab" -- can you do that for your MD in 15 minutes? Jim, MD




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  • Posted by Susannah 10 years ago
    Anyone who has any notion of restraining our 2nd Amendment rights is off my list of potential candidates. The 2nd is the one that guarantees us all the rest. Equivocation in any form on the 2nd Amendment is just a complete deal breaker for me.
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years ago
    Big deal that he thinks we should all own guns, does he? What is of greater concern is the fact that we are heading towards third world status. L. Peikoff has two books that should be read, Ominous Parallel and the DIM Hypothesis. He believes we have but two generations or 40 years to turn things around or all is lost. I believe that what it will take to turn things around are not in place nor will they. So marshal law may very well happen.
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    • Posted by RevJay4 10 years ago
      The martial law thing has been a concern of mine since the current "resident" took the oath the first time. Then proceeded to begin the unraveling of the Constitution by the office appointments, exec orders, etc. Not to mention the arming of the various executive agencies to the hilt. Doesn't look good for the citizens, in my mind.
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      • Posted by g4lt 10 years ago
        News flash, you should have been more worried about martial law in 2004, there were actually candidates that mentioned invoking it, and they effectively DID, via USA/PATRIOT and the DHS reorganization.
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        • Posted by RevJay4 10 years ago
          I was worried about it then, and consider the "Patriot" act to be real close and DHS to be giant waste of taxpayer money. I consider the act to be unconstitutional and that it needs to be repealed along with Ocare, etc.
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          • Posted by g4lt 10 years ago
            "The martial law thing has been a concern of mine since the current "resident" took the oath the first time." That would be 2008, four years after I pointed out the real threat to invoke martial law was in play. So which is it, were you engaging in hyperbole before, or are you now? Which time did you inflate the truth, when you said that your concern only started when the Democrat took office (probably not, not many assumptions for Lord Ockham there), or when you said that you worried about it while the Republican was doing the actual unravelling of the Constitution (very likely this one, given that evil prospered in a Burkesian kind of way)?
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  • Posted by KevinSmith1281 10 years ago
    It seems to me that the common sense action to take against violence in cities like Detroit is end the war on drugs and decrminalize all drugs. Less money involved, less risk involved, less power to the street thugs makes for less violence. It would also make it much more difficult for the statists to justify the police state.
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  • Posted by Kath 10 years ago
    Medical doctors are flocking to politics because that is what paternalistic statists do. They can have a far wider influence on your life this way. This is not a good sign.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
      True, there are a few, but I would say it's more because they have the funds and the flexibility to take the time off to run. The other and even larger group are lawyers. Both of these professions often are comprised of partnerships where a partner continues to derive revenue even if they are not active participants in current operations, and if they do need to contribute, it can be done on a more flexible schedule. Try to do the same with other more traditional work - shift work or even salaried work which requires being at the worksite daily.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
    well had you read his other comments?
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
      Because someone might steal my gun, I should not have an automatic weapon.

      Kind of like blaming the weatherman for the weather.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
        yes, dr. carson has always struck me as lacking in Objectivist foundations.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
          He's very religious... just sayin'.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
            I think he doesn 't start from the position of owning himself. If you start from a place of obligation then it 's easier to to nip at freedoms. His statements about firearm restrictions in urban areas is straight forward "for the good of society "
            which is the number one principle of progressivism. It makes me wonder what else he wants us to give up for the good of society. Maybe privacy for natl security? I just don 't know. I am glad he has gotten alot of attention. Heseems honest and forthright
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            • Posted by 10 years ago
              He is honest and admits if he's in error. I believe his earlier held opinions about guns come from having grown up in two violent urban neighborhoods, and witnessing gang related killings. He does however recognize that the second amendment applies to all, and that legal gun owners are being targeted, and it needs to be stopped before we are all stripped of our firearms. What has become the thing that has gotten me irritated throughout all of the ignorant spoutings, is when people say to ban semi-automatic weapons. Well, they all are. Full auto are not legal. Semi-automatics, when anyone ever bothers to learn, are all firearms which require one to pull the trigger each time you want to fire. And the whole "assault weapon" thing? Don't get me started! Ugh!
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              • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 10 years ago
                The jury is still out on him in my opinion. He appears to have changed his 2nd Amendment stance, but I think his first comments about where you live is what he truly believes.

                You are very right NMA about people not knowing anything about guns and making proclamations about them. Stupidity of the masses makes it easier for the progressives to work.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
            Hey, some of our best leaders have been "very religious"
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            • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years ago
              As long as he doesn't impose his religious views on others it really doesn't matter.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                How could he "impose" his beliefs on anyone?
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                • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
                  Brother's keeper crap. You shouldn't have a gun because someone might steal it...it's for your own good. That's what I'm referring to.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                    Well, to be fair, those aren't religious related beliefs (other than the brother's keeper).
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                    • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
                      The 'brother's keeper' WAS the religious belief I was mentioning. ? (Knowing better what's good for someone else than they do..IS being a brother's keeper. Did you miss that part?)
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                      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                        One can espouse the other sentiments without placing them in a religious context. You can even place "brothers keeper" in a non-religious context - ever hear of Marxism?
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                        • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
                          But we were talking about Carson.... and he is. Just makin' a point....a connection in his thinking. I wasn't bashing him..relax. (I know many religious people who absolutely think they have the right to interfere with others because they know best. They think it's their obligation to save others from themselves... You don't know anyone like that? As for Marx...easy to manipulate some with words that hit home with their belief system.)
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                          • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
                            I know black people who think all white people are racist - does THAT make them right??? Does that mean that all black people think that all white people are racist?? Come on LS. Use logic and reason. You're making emotional arguments based on what you THINK somebody MIGHT do. You know that's illogical, unreasonable and very unkind.
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                            • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
                              LS has been enthusiastic about Dr. Carson. The discussion is about gun control. Racism? No, I do not see that, emotional, NO she specifically brought up follow his reasoning. Dr. Carson is very religious. He is also quite outspoken against Marxism. So....where might his thinking on gun control originate? It is not unreasonable to make a brother's keeper connection. Christianity is a philosophy as well as a belief. If I make policy statements and I have said I am an Objectivist, it is reasonable and logical to assume my policy thinking aligns with my philosophy of life. Whether I am correct in how I apply it is another thing. This is not about LS, this is about Dr. Carson's political and policy viewpoints on important matters. Conjecturing how he may come down on other policies and Rights is germaine
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                              • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
                                Most people don't have fully developed and integrated theological philosophies, even folks who are very smart and well educated. Most have difficulty defining exactly where the lessor important things can be found in scripture and how the scripture defines their beliefs. Were I to ever visit with Dr. Ben and the subject of medicine enter our discussion, I would be intensely focused on his thoughts. I would rest assured that he would give me the best possible information he had gained in years of practice.

                                On the other hand, were the discussion to move into the realm of religion, - no, hold that for a minute - lets say the discussion moved into discussing the merits of gun ownership and the second amendment, I would feel very well positioned in accepting a lead in our talks and I would expect that he would accept that. I know I hold a much greater understanding of the issue and could impart a lot of information that, based on his comments, he does not have.

                                Now back to religion, there are just a very few questions a person must be able to correctly answer to be identified as a Christian. The basic theme of salvation and the relationship between God and man pretty well sums up the minimum. That takes care of the rifle range equivalent of point the gun at the target and pull the trigger until the gun goes boom. I think Dr. Ben "gets" that much of it. But were I to ask him about the advantage of "fast or slow" rifling pitch for a particular type of shooting, I suspect I'd just get a blank expression in return.

                                Dr. Ben is not a theologian and "if" I were to ask him about the "hypostatic union of Christ" I suspect I'd get the same blank expression. While it is important on one level, it's just not going to exceed the noise level in the lives of most Christians today. BUT to a theologian it's a very crucially important aspect involving Christ's humanity and Godhood.

                                So my point is that while Dr. Ben may lay his belief in some "obligation" at the feet of his faith, it's real roots may be found more in the collectivist teachings of his culture - the culture he has fought his entire life BTW.

                                Another possible source of his confused statement may lay in his professional credo. The most basic goal of any person working in medicine to help others. No matter to whom he may attribute his drive for success in medicine, the drive to helps others comes first. Finding examples of good people helping others in the bible, it's too easy to say that this is where the drive comes from, but that is not a developed doctrinal statement. Not any more so than a soldier saying he was guided into his profession by reading of Jesus telling Peter to go buy a sward.

                                Certainly we must evaluate all his positions on the important thing we are dealing with and his faith will be a part of that. I just urge than we examine his positions based on his words and actions, not on what we may think we know of his religion. A lot of false data is mixed in with what most people think they know about religion.
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                                • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                                  Or it might just be that he sees these tragedies and (wrongly, but commonly) believes that just controlling gun ownership would reduce them.

                                  Like I said, I don't think he's spent a lot of time thinking about it.
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                            • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
                              He said himself that he didn't think semi autos belonged in highly populated areas because they could be stolen. I'm not assuming anything. He said it. (He has since back tracked a bit, but that's what my comments were about... "I know best so you city folk shouldn't have guns." big brother ish thinking.) And why is race being brought into this? And I have yet to get emotional... Are we even in the same conversation thread?? Unkind? Where?!
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                              • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
                                You were the one who brought religion into the discussion. You know, that whole "brothers keeper thing" and "Brother's keeper crap" and "He's very religious... just sayin" - it seems that your problem is much more about this than anything else. That coupled with a complete misunderstanding of the scriptural references you are quoting tends to indicate the real, underlying issue.

                                As for the racial references, their called analogies.

                                As for his unfamiluararity with guns and the issues that surround them, I'm happy he's making some attempt to grasp the problem. I think he has a very long way to go before he can win over this pro-gun segment of the right wing of the party. He knows it's a weakness and I suspect that we'll hear more about his views in the months to come.
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                                • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years ago
                                  That last paragraph, had you said it earlier without all the other stuff, would've been a perfect response. I'll ignore the rest for the purpose of staying on topic and pretending I haven't been attacked, and say thank you.
                                  Thank you...I agree he has some work to do to win us over in the gun area. I actually like him a lot. I read his book and watched the movie Gifted Hands. I respect him for what he has accomplished and for speaking out at the prayer breakfast. (Don't hammer me for saying 'prayer'.)
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                              • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
                                and, on the wiki page for Ben Carson here is what I said before: his philosophy is rooted in obligation not in owning himself which can lead easily to losses of liberty based on that concept "obligation." and where does he get his philosophy of "obligation?"
                                "...adding that the Bible "says we have an obligation to love our fellow man as ourselves...."
                                I understand that Christianity does not preclude liberty loving individuals. However, In Dr. Carson's case, I want to know what else he thinks I have an obligation to do or give up.
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                    • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
                      Which is actually a corrupt interpreting of the passage anyway. It's not what is meant by it at all, but like the libs screaming "racist", this becomes the canard of atheists.
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                      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
                        True. I have been meaning to start a thread on that but have not had the time to do the proper research on the passages and historical context as of late.
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                      • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
                        star, what is your interpretation of the passage?
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                        • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
                          After Cain had murdered his brother Abel, God asked him where his brother was. Cain answered, “I know not; am I my brother's keeper?”

                          The above extract from Gen. is very plain that Cain is asking God if "He" is his brothers keeper. God does not respond that Cain "is" his brothers keeper. Only "thou knowest" which Cain certainly did since he had killed him.

                          So please explain the false narrative that proclaims, based on this passage, that I as a Christian am responsible for my brother, who chooses another path?

                          I would offer that my responsibility to him is no greater than that which is owed to any other thinking, rational member of society. That being to take a reasonable amount of time to explain their error. Such as I'm doing now.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
          He has good tendencies, but clearly hasn't put a lot of thought into an holistic view about liberty, the constitution, and politics in general.
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          • Posted by 10 years ago
            Not true. He's quite vocal about our liberties, and that they are sacred, and should be defended at all costs. He's very open about it. Read America the Beautiful by him, and you will see how vehemently opposed to infringements of our liberties he is.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
              Not a holistic view. For those liberties that he is interested in, he's a very powerful speaker and advocate. I just don't see him having looked at the entire Constitution and all that it contains. The 16th and 17th amendments, for example.
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
              If he is, why the stance on limiting the rights of citizens in urban areas? IF he feels that way, then how does he justify NOT limiting freedoms on other things, like NSA info gathering or the war on drugs?
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years ago
            That's true. He 's new at this. But I 'm not in politics and thousands of others aren 't as well and they have put alot of thought in it...
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
              True. I don't think he will actually get into politics at any significant level.
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              • Posted by 10 years ago
                He doesn't wish to. He just is speaking out against the transgressions against the constitution, and I must say, he's doing so because these things need to be said. He is not shrinking from speaking out against a tyrannical government, and has been scrutinized by the IRS as a direct result. That has not stopped him from continuing to speak out, and it's something I find admirable, as opposed to remaining silent because that's what this administration wants. Cowed silence.
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