Galt's Gulch

Are we living Islam's darkest hour?

Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago to News
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A rather interesting post, someone who seems to actually be trying to state reality...
SOURCE URL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/faisal-abbas/are-we-living-islams-dark_b_7680478.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

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  • Posted by broskjold22 8 years, 10 months ago
    The argument here is that terrorism isn't practical. Yes, that is true. The irrational cannot be practical. Individual rights, though, not "group rights", "nation rights", etc. are the only solution to injustice. The individual is the smallest minority. I am afraid many cultures across the globe do not recognize this fact.

    "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist."
    -- For the New Intellectual
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
      I say the ISIS people are stupid, period. The beheadings are pretty gruesome and will just turn off people to their cause in time. Their group will just wither and die off on its own. We dont need to fight them unless they come here. Leave them alone in their homeland to duke it out amongst themselves. Once enough of them are dead, the fighting will stop
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 10 months ago
        You make the assumption that their audience is modern and rational, but that's not who ISIS is playing to with their butchery. Many Muslims still have a seventh century mindset, and to such persons, public torture and execution is normal, with some regarding it as a form of entertainment. The last public execution in the U.S. was in the 1930s, so even the Western mind isn't so far from the idea that it's OK to enact hideous punishment on the enemy. World domination is the stated goal of Islam. Some believe that can be accomplished without violence, just as believers of other faiths think everyone will adopt their brand of religion because of its superiority, but many Muslims see nothing wrong with violence as a means to achieve the goal. The killing will not stop in the Middle East if ISIS (Sunni extremists) or Iran (Shiite extremists) become dominant in the Islamic world.
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        • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
          At least we are a few thousand miles away from them, for the safety that affords us.
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 10 months ago
            Unfortunately they are already among us. Cells supporting Al Qaeda and ISIS are in several large U.S. cities, and there are more than 30 training camps for Muslim extremists scattered across the country. The camps, which train their members in firearms and martial arts, are allowed to exist by the Federal government because they purport to be only a defense measure for Muslims who fear religious violence against them. While the FBI and DHS claim to be keeping a close eye on the camps, they don't intend to shut them down unless they can be connected to terrorist activities.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 10 months ago
    I'm afraid the author get's it wrong. Religions of one brand or the other have been doing this since before the dawn of recorded history. And they won't stop as long as some humans believe in superstition and magic.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
      I dont like Bill Mayer except for his documentary
      Religulous. It really showed all the religions for what they are- a collection of beliefs that substitute for facts.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
        Agree, I read a book written by a Phd who has a theory about just what religions are and why they came into being that seems to make absolute sense. He put all the basic historical facts together and his end story is really solid, but it involves aliens so I won't trot it out here. But I did admire he was overflowing with historical fact, as near as any historical fact can be "fact".I am sure that documentary latched on to some of the same facts, and if you ever try to raise them they start erecting pillars and bonfires.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
      Zen, I think he was trying to illustrate the fallacy of threats and violence as a solution to a problem, but yes, this is a defining characteristic of most, if not all religions. I also read one describing how Indias Hindus are starving their children, in that one of the better answers is to use eggs for protein, and they had a fit over the idea since they are supposedly vegetarians.Religion is one of the most abuse justifications for self destructive behavior I have ever seen.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 10 months ago
        As is vegetarianism. We are omnivores. Believing that eating only fruit and veggies is magic and superstition (religion).

        As to threats and violence not being solutions, that is the entire law and prison and international law system. What else is there? We can't seem to rely on everyone using rational thought and reason based on reality and logic.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
    I agree that this is "Islam's Darkest Hour". This is the Islamic equivalent of the Inquisition - a despicable episode in the history of a religion. Y'all know that I disagree with the notion that Islam is per se evil or violent; it was the refuge for civilization and rationality from about the 7th to the 15th centuries.

    Now, however, unlike the world of the Inquisition, we live in a world where it is visible to the other countries of the world that the extremist Muslims are behaving like children having tantrums with modern weaponry: "I want it MY WAY! And if I do not get it MY WAY I will blow you up and cut off your head!"

    I think that the similarity between the 'quiet condoners' and the German people during WWII is notable. The German people mostly agreed that Jews were evil and that Germany's problems were all their fault...but the typical person was not inclined to do more than snub a Jew on the street. They did not want to kill a Jew; they certainly did not want to defend a Jew.

    I think we now have this situation in the ME. I think that the majority of the people probably vaguely agree that 'their' brand of Islam is the right one, and that all of the other religions and sects are causing the problem. But they don't want to go out and cut anyone's head off...they just want to live their traditional lives. This gives the real bad guys a huge basis for their operations, though.

    Either we need to kill all of the bad guys (or enough such that the remaining ones are cowering in the corner) or we need to remove their popular base.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
      Jan, your last line is what I have thought for 20 years and it seems no one wants to pony up to the fact that is pretty much the only answer. The Germans kept right on going to the end, and everybody gasped in surprise at the nastiness they found, despite knowing of it since 1941 or 42. Delusion is often easier than reality.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
        I have read some articles on the ME and Afghanistan that hint that the women may be the key. There is apparently a strong covert movement amongst the women to secretly wear forbidden Western makeup under their burkas. If the Sharia police pull them up for examination they have to scrub it off in a hurry or face some rather extreme punishment.

        I know, it seems trivial. But the Berlin Wall was brought down by Walkmans and jeans.

        Jan
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        • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
          there might also have been a national defense bill
          which the soviets found hard to pay. . my "career"
          was devoted to making them go bankrupt. -- j
          .
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          • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
            Good work, then, "Worm in the Wood"!

            Jan
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            • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
              I wonder what you are referring to, Jan -- the slow,
              effective ruination of an enemy by undermining
              their advantages??? -- j
              .
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              • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
                One of my favorite poems. (There is a great version sung by Leslie Fish.) You were part of a team "Working our works out of view".


                A Pict Song
                By Rudyard Kipling

                (‘The Winged Hats’ —Puck of Pook’s Hill)

                Rome never looks where she treads.
                Always her heavy hooves fall
                On our stomachs, our hearts or our heads;
                And Rome never heeds when we bawl.
                Her sentries pass on—that is all,
                And we gather behind them in hordes,
                And plot to reconquer the Wall,
                With only our tongues for our swords.

                We are the Little Folk—we!
                Too little to love or to hate.
                Leave us alone and you’ll see
                How we can drag down the State!
                We are the worm in the wood!
                We are the rot at the root!
                We are the taint in the blood!
                We are the thorn in the foot!

                Mistletoe killing an oak—
                Rats gnawing cables in two—
                Moths making holes in a cloak—
                How they must love what they do!
                Yes—and we Little Folk too,
                We are busy as they—
                Working our works out of view—
                Watch, and you’ll see it some day!

                No indeed! We are not strong,
                But we know Peoples that are.
                Yes, and we’ll guide them along
                To smash and destroy you in War!
                We shall be slaves just the same?
                Yes, we have always been slaves,
                But you—you will die of the shame,
                And then we shall dance on your graves!

                We are the Little Folk—we!
                Too little to love or to hate.
                Leave us alone and you’ll see
                How we can drag down the State!
                We are the worm in the wood!
                We are the rot at the root!
                We are the taint in the blood!
                We are the thorn in the foot!

                Mistletoe killing an oak—
                Rats gnawing cables in two—
                Moths making holes in a cloak—
                How they must love what they do!

                Yes—and we Little Folk too,
                We are busy as they—
                Working our works out of view—
                Watch, and you’ll see it some day!
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                • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
                  that's wonderful -- smooth and persistent and true!
                  I wish that I could write like that. -- j
                  .
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                  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
                    I like it. People think of 'the big guys in the shiny armor' as being the historical winners, but sometimes (as in the American and French Revolutions and with Gandhi in India) it is the persistent 'little people' who win in the long run. Your comment about gnawing away at the Soviet economy reminded me of Kipling's poem.

                    Glad you like it.

                    Jan
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                • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
                  Nice, I believe the term Pict was used to describe the common soldier back in the Greek days? Vs Hpcalites or something that had the shields and stuff, I think Picts had just spears and were the cannon fodder of their time, probably why he used it.....
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
            I was there too John, making them try to run circles around us in the Gulf of Alaska every 3 months. Spent my last 12 years or so touring it. Even now, they keep talking about re-invigorating the Russian Navy but they are just as broke as we are.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
              i am wondering how much the new Russian threat is real and how much is preparation for the next economic cycle or rather cycle of economic repression - after B.O Legacy, if he abdicates, and before the promised tax raises of the "Wicked Witch of the Left? Yup here it comes another war time economy boost more inflation, more devaluation and another go round of debt repudiation.
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            • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
              we made an arsenal of nukes which were very fine
              and very versatile. . our tests were real. . though
              secret, we had the data to "back up our boast" and
              they knew enough to shudder in their shoes.

              I am so extraordinarily glad that we did not have to
              use one of those things. -- j
              .
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              • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
                My father worked at the Pentagon for about 3 years. He said (many decades later) that his job had been to assign nuclear missile to specific Russian targets: So many missiles at so many megatons for this city or for that base.

                When he spoke of it, I could tell that he hated the job. He had a good imagination - not necessarily a benefit for a professional military man.

                Jan
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                • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
                  when I was busting my ass so that "we" could
                  eliminate some or another city, I just had to think
                  of it as deterrence. . and without my help, the facts
                  that our gizmos did / do really work leaked out.
                  the Soviets could do a lot of "inefficient" warheads,
                  requiring heavy lift rockets, but we could hit the
                  exact target with the specific power needed.
                  they had no way to match that. -- j
                  .
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              • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
                Came close, we came to DefCon 2 after a Russian spy revealed a huge NATO exercise, and the Kremlin thought it was a real attack, and only because the spy went rogue and sent messages beyond their contact did it stop. There were at least 2 other times we went to DefCon3 on alert because of communications snafus, there is a documentary they did on the NATO one. I can't remember it's name though...
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                • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 10 months ago
                  yes, we had a few alerts when I was active -- and a
                  few d-model bufs which left very heavy and returned
                  very light, from u tapao, thailand, while I was there
                  in 72-73. -- j
                  .
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
      All because some Christian decided to write in a prohibition against money lending for Christians.To keep the Pope and the local inquisition happy the Christians borrowed from the Jews. Then when they couldn't pay started a pogrom. The Germans needed a scapegoat? Voila! The Russians need a scape goat? Voila.
      The Democrats need a scape goat? Whoops they donate big bucks to the party. Although during WWII they turned away refugees and didn't believe stories about chambers and ovens until it was in their face. That was our Government.

      It's all about money.

      And all because some Christian decided to ban Christians from the banking business.

      The rest of it was just a feel good cover up.

      Nope Not Jewish, nor for that matter Christian. though I had my share of forced attendance.
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 10 months ago
    the short answer to the question posed is "NO". the current activity of islam has not changed for several thousand years. this is how they live; like animals. they are in my opinion the "missing link". the entirety of the population does not have any incentive to get an education for the purpose of bettering themselves. they as a group chose to accept what some of the group chose to do, some ask why don't others stand up and say you are not helping us, etc. because they are a group of the uneducated. do they want a better life NO as evidenced by all of their actions. they have lived by choice in darkness and those elected to lead (?) the various countries of the world such as the usa I believe want things to go in that direction as evidenced by how they are reacting to what is going on. The DARK AGES ARE ON THE MARCH TO RETURN. And that my friends is the reality of the future of the world,
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
    I have kind of a visceral reaction to ISLAM. Its a fu&&^$ up religion based on nonsense. And the people who actually believe it are either ignorant or just plain stupid. Unfortunately, its the largest religion on the planet, and the rest of us are going to have to protect ourselves from it. Its a real shame they cant just leave us alone, but its just not going to happen. In the meantime, I will admit to just wanting to stay away from muslims- all of them. I think they are all bad, in that there is almost NO hue and cry among muslims about how this terrorism and jihad stuff should be condemned.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
      I agree, I cannot abide a religion that seeks to impose itself on others. You want to go around beating women and killing children, then do it on your own turf. That is the most egregious part of this..
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 10 months ago
        Islam is evil.
        So is PC.
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        • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 10 months ago
          the best way to get rid of evil is with atomic bombs. i am convinced if one were to be dropped on say teran and afterwards said we have more to drop if you don't stop what you are doing they would simply ignore you and do what they want anyway. so the best approach is to turn every square inch of land around isreal to glass and that includes the saudis. take no prisoners. and if there are some here who disagree send them over there to hold the muslims hands. i am tired of hearing about muslims and islam aren't you?
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 10 months ago
            I'm also sick of hearing how it's racist not to accommodate Muslims and their special needs.
            Muslims want no part of what once was the great American melting pot.
            Muslims want the rest of the whole wide world to melt for them being so freaking special.
            Old Dino says screw that. And screw them too.
            Instead of coming here to spread their misery, they can kindly return to the misery they came from.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
            I do think the nuke idea is not workable, only because there are too many bad guys with them waiting for an excuse to use them. Makes it hard to even threaten their use.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
            Yes, it is a never ending story and you have to wonder how many atrocities they have to commit before someone gets serious with them. Unfortunately, we have never had a realistic foriegn policy for a very long time, Patton knew the Russians were the real threat and was assassinated for it. I don't give a rats A@@ about what anyone's religion is, just do not try to force me to acknowledge or practice it. That is where they all fall down, they seem to think they have some special right to force it on you, and that is not limited to Islam.
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  • Posted by woodlema 8 years, 10 months ago
    We are not even close to what Islam is working toward.

    If you want an idea of what Islam wants, you need to go back tot he dark ages during the Crusades, and THAT is what they want to take people back to.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
    Quiet Condoners is an excellent way of saying Enablers. As long as they are backed by such creatures foremost of which is Comrade Obeyme I would have to ask which part of Islam's Darkest Hour? Then try to stay away from the next Ground Zero.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 8 years, 10 months ago
    Interesting how the author slipped in the note re Muslim grievances - as if they are legitimate! They are merely fighting for power and religion.
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  • Posted by jtrikakis 8 years, 10 months ago
    You don't have to like, agree, or even care, But I do ask you to spend less than 30 of you time to listen -> https://www.mcleanbible.org/sermons/isla...

    Lon Solomon is a Jew for Jesus. I attend his church.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
      If you choose to believe in stories with no reality in history, it is OK with me. I rank them right along with Aesop. I could go on to shred the Jewish and Christian bibles in debate, but been there done that. So long as you are a good person and don't impede my forward progress, you're generally OK with me. Do you have the same tolerance toward me? Rev. Solomon is a Jew for Jesus? But is Jesus a Jew for Jews?
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      • Posted by jtrikakis 8 years, 10 months ago
        Let me start backwards to answer your questions 1) Jesus was Jew from the bloodline of David 2) Jews for Jesus have been around for sometime. I suggest some research on the subject 3) Tolerance? I don't really care what you think. That is your free will choice. Now my questions 1) What determines a "good person" or maybe who determines such a statement 2) No debate about the Bible, just give me 3 biblical teachings that are false. Thanks.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
          I am well aware that Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew. I am aware that Jews for Jesus have been around for a while. Sure you care what I think or you wouldn't have made the post requesting 30 of my time. A good person by my definition is one who eschews the use of force, allows that everyone has the right to say no to anything, and MYOB - Minds Their Own Business. As to three teachings that are false, I'm not sure what you define as "teachings." The are an abundance of false statements in the bible(s). I'll give you just one that is rarely if ever mentioned. The name Jesus. It was never a Hebrew or Middle Eastern name. It was given to him by scholars later in order to differentiate him from what would have been his real name, probably Joshua or "Yoshi." But, for us to argue about this would get us nowhere as I won't nor do I intend to change your beliefs nor will you ever change mine. All that being said, we can still be friends if you so desire. I personally have friends across all spectrums, which include devout people of all religions and ethnic backgrounds. If I exclude different people because of differences in beliefs, I'd be wasting wonderful interchanges and experiences.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
            Herb, not to be nosey, but I do believe that there is enough evidence that religion has been manipulated so badly over the ages, that there is no clear, verifiable, unadulterated version of any religious document available. The Dead Sea scrolls and the lost chapters that were kicked out of the Bible when they had the conclave in Constantinople seem to support that. I see most religious documents as having been adulterated by the powerful for their own ends. My favorite is the reason that Catholics were eating fish on Fridays: To keep the Italian fishing fleets in business. Having been Catholic, I found that to be just a silly notion, as I grew up with the haranguing from the pulpit that you had to do it, and the Knights of Columbus even had fish frys every Friday. I am by no means a religious scholar but it seems there is a lot of variation to be found that shows the "true" story is lost, since it seems everyone today has the "true story" (such as Islamists) and it is different for every group. That is why I can't subscribe to any formal religion, the closest I can come is the Native American philosophy.
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            • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
              You're making my point.
              I do believe that there are things going on in the universe that are inexplicable via science. For example the dozens and dozens of coincidences that happened in order to bring about intelligent life on earth, and when the saurian experiment failed to evolve in that direction, they were conveniently killed off almost overnight by universe standards. Then there's quantum physics and its relationship to consciousness. So many fascinating mysteries yet to be solved. It might well be that certain aspects of science will meet up with religions, but one thing I can promise you for sure: It won't be getting run by an old guy with a flowing white beard wearing a billowing robe sitting on a throne.
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              • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 10 months ago
                I concur with you, I can handle a spiritual component, but formal religions seem too pat for me. It has always bothered me that Islam claims to be the same God that Christians have yet they say that they have to kill you, I think Moses predates all that and he had a ticket God gave him saying thou shalt not kill...GIGO at work, unless God was a flawed computer whos ethics program got corrupted, but there are way too many inconsistencies.
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                • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
                  That roasting an ox is pleasing to the Lord? The Sabbath is on Saturday but it was changed to Sunday -- on whose orders? When I was sixteen, I decided to compile all the inconsistencies in the old testament. I never got very far. After I had done 10 or so pages, I gave up with the realization that it would be a lifetime pursuit.
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