punching holes in the sky, Chief, by proxy since I just
fixed 'em for others who flew 'em!! . we won the cold
war together, so congrats to you as well !!! -- j
.

AH, the way you spoke I thought you might have been punching holes in the ocean with me. Congrags on your service and retirement.

My thoughts exactly, thank you.

That roasting an ox is pleasing to the Lord? The Sabbath is on Saturday but it was changed to Sunday -- on whose orders? When I was sixteen, I decided to compile all the inconsistencies in the old testament. I never got very far. After I had done 10 or so pages, I gave up with the realization that it would be a lifetime pursuit.

do you mean rank? . aircraft maintenance -- general
purpose lieutenant type on active duty;;; retired as
a LtCol after 28 years reserve, in '98. -- j

p.s. when working with the weapons -- I inventoried them
on active duty and built them in oak ridge as an engineer
from 75 to 08.
.

yes, we had a few alerts when I was active -- and a
few d-model bufs which left very heavy and returned
very light, from u tapao, thailand, while I was there
in 72-73. -- j
.

I concur with you, I can handle a spiritual component, but formal religions seem too pat for me. It has always bothered me that Islam claims to be the same God that Christians have yet they say that they have to kill you, I think Moses predates all that and he had a ticket God gave him saying thou shalt not kill...GIGO at work, unless God was a flawed computer whos ethics program got corrupted, but there are way too many inconsistencies.

Nice, I believe the term Pict was used to describe the common soldier back in the Greek days? Vs Hpcalites or something that had the shields and stuff, I think Picts had just spears and were the cannon fodder of their time, probably why he used it.....

What rate were you, John?

Came close, we came to DefCon 2 after a Russian spy revealed a huge NATO exercise, and the Kremlin thought it was a real attack, and only because the spy went rogue and sent messages beyond their contact did it stop. There were at least 2 other times we went to DefCon3 on alert because of communications snafus, there is a documentary they did on the NATO one. I can't remember it's name though...

yes, every now and then, words can click together
to become more than the sum of the parts. . Lovely! -- j
.

That is an excellent point, and one that would not have occurred to me. Might have helped my father to think of it that way.

Jan

I like it. People think of 'the big guys in the shiny armor' as being the historical winners, but sometimes (as in the American and French Revolutions and with Gandhi in India) it is the persistent 'little people' who win in the long run. Your comment about gnawing away at the Soviet economy reminded me of Kipling's poem.

Glad you like it.

Jan

when I was busting my ass so that "we" could
eliminate some or another city, I just had to think
of it as deterrence. . and without my help, the facts
that our gizmos did / do really work leaked out.
the Soviets could do a lot of "inefficient" warheads,
requiring heavy lift rockets, but we could hit the
exact target with the specific power needed.
they had no way to match that. -- j
.

that's wonderful -- smooth and persistent and true!
I wish that I could write like that. -- j
.

My father worked at the Pentagon for about 3 years. He said (many decades later) that his job had been to assign nuclear missile to specific Russian targets: So many missiles at so many megatons for this city or for that base.

When he spoke of it, I could tell that he hated the job. He had a good imagination - not necessarily a benefit for a professional military man.

Jan

One of my favorite poems. (There is a great version sung by Leslie Fish.) You were part of a team "Working our works out of view".


A Pict Song
By Rudyard Kipling

(‘The Winged Hats’ —Puck of Pook’s Hill)

Rome never looks where she treads.
Always her heavy hooves fall
On our stomachs, our hearts or our heads;
And Rome never heeds when we bawl.
Her sentries pass on—that is all,
And we gather behind them in hordes,
And plot to reconquer the Wall,
With only our tongues for our swords.

We are the Little Folk—we!
Too little to love or to hate.
Leave us alone and you’ll see
How we can drag down the State!
We are the worm in the wood!
We are the rot at the root!
We are the taint in the blood!
We are the thorn in the foot!

Mistletoe killing an oak—
Rats gnawing cables in two—
Moths making holes in a cloak—
How they must love what they do!
Yes—and we Little Folk too,
We are busy as they—
Working our works out of view—
Watch, and you’ll see it some day!

No indeed! We are not strong,
But we know Peoples that are.
Yes, and we’ll guide them along
To smash and destroy you in War!
We shall be slaves just the same?
Yes, we have always been slaves,
But you—you will die of the shame,
And then we shall dance on your graves!

We are the Little Folk—we!
Too little to love or to hate.
Leave us alone and you’ll see
How we can drag down the State!
We are the worm in the wood!
We are the rot at the root!
We are the taint in the blood!
We are the thorn in the foot!

Mistletoe killing an oak—
Rats gnawing cables in two—
Moths making holes in a cloak—
How they must love what they do!

Yes—and we Little Folk too,
We are busy as they—
Working our works out of view—
Watch, and you’ll see it some day!

You're making my point.
I do believe that there are things going on in the universe that are inexplicable via science. For example the dozens and dozens of coincidences that happened in order to bring about intelligent life on earth, and when the saurian experiment failed to evolve in that direction, they were conveniently killed off almost overnight by universe standards. Then there's quantum physics and its relationship to consciousness. So many fascinating mysteries yet to be solved. It might well be that certain aspects of science will meet up with religions, but one thing I can promise you for sure: It won't be getting run by an old guy with a flowing white beard wearing a billowing robe sitting on a throne.

Unfortunately they are already among us. Cells supporting Al Qaeda and ISIS are in several large U.S. cities, and there are more than 30 training camps for Muslim extremists scattered across the country. The camps, which train their members in firearms and martial arts, are allowed to exist by the Federal government because they purport to be only a defense measure for Muslims who fear religious violence against them. While the FBI and DHS claim to be keeping a close eye on the camps, they don't intend to shut them down unless they can be connected to terrorist activities.

we made an arsenal of nukes which were very fine
and very versatile. . our tests were real. . though
secret, we had the data to "back up our boast" and
they knew enough to shudder in their shoes.

I am so extraordinarily glad that we did not have to
use one of those things. -- j
.

I wonder what you are referring to, Jan -- the slow,
effective ruination of an enemy by undermining
their advantages??? -- j
.

I was there too John, making them try to run circles around us in the Gulf of Alaska every 3 months. Spent my last 12 years or so touring it. Even now, they keep talking about re-invigorating the Russian Navy but they are just as broke as we are.

Herb, not to be nosey, but I do believe that there is enough evidence that religion has been manipulated so badly over the ages, that there is no clear, verifiable, unadulterated version of any religious document available. The Dead Sea scrolls and the lost chapters that were kicked out of the Bible when they had the conclave in Constantinople seem to support that. I see most religious documents as having been adulterated by the powerful for their own ends. My favorite is the reason that Catholics were eating fish on Fridays: To keep the Italian fishing fleets in business. Having been Catholic, I found that to be just a silly notion, as I grew up with the haranguing from the pulpit that you had to do it, and the Knights of Columbus even had fish frys every Friday. I am by no means a religious scholar but it seems there is a lot of variation to be found that shows the "true" story is lost, since it seems everyone today has the "true story" (such as Islamists) and it is different for every group. That is why I can't subscribe to any formal religion, the closest I can come is the Native American philosophy.