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  • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 4 months ago
    He voiced his opinion, A&E voiced theirs. Stories over let's all go home.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
      Totally agree. Networks are entirely within their right to choose what sort of speech they allow on their channels. The people clamoring on about how this guy's free speech was supposedly violated seem to be forgetting that the Constitution is a limitation against the government, not a limitation against the people. A&E is a non-government entity, and therefore is not required to allow free speech. They are perfectly within their right to censor anyone on their network that they wish.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
        He didn't say what he said on A&E...he said it in a GQ interview. A&E doesn't own him anyway.
        Maph, so if a network told a gay person they couldn't speak their opinion during an interview (OR on a reality show for pete's sake) you'd be okay with that? Seriously? I think you have a double standard. "You can be on our reality show....but...just...don't be you, okay?"
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
    her is another sort of accuarate observation on the overall issue. Except it also misses the big point. People can say what they wish, when they wish, and you have to just be able to let it go. Just as no one can discriminate, just as business has the right to refuse service, if you try to push your agenda onto others. If he had said "You can't watch our show unless you sign the anti gay pledge, or something along those lines, you have a different story. But all the special interest groups are so sensitive, that any indication of lack of worship of their existence is "Hateful". Thats where they lose the majority. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/defend-phi...
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
    How can a network have an opinion? And people just accept that as a response. Why not say ... he's a person with an opinion who is free to express it just like every other individual. Any other response is a voice against natural rights.
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    • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
      The network has avested interest in protecting its viewership. While employed by the network and in a very public eye, one has to be careful in expressing certain opinions. Say the employee was going around saying Ihate Bush! This could negatively affect viewership. It 's up to the network to determine how damaging ti them such statements are. Privately an employee of a network can say whatever but reputations are important. I support the network 's right to censor their public employees.
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      • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
        Contradiction:
        "Privately an employee of a network can say whatever but reputations are important." then " I support the network 's right to censor their public employees."
        So you work for Verizon. You go to a protest about NSA spying. You appear on TV with a sign saying "NSA Bad, Spying Bad" . You are fired. By your logic, Verizon is perfectly justified. Nope, not buying it.
        Phil answered the questions put to him, and answered them as he saw fit. He gave HIS Opinion. He never said "A&E believes...." One of our problems is freedom has been eaten away in little bits by various little justifications for wrong actions, and day by day they have added up. Just like the Presidents who have passed all the little "Executive Orders" that pretty much mean with one declaration, boof: Martial Law and internment. Go look them up. if people do not draw the line at the loss of freedom, soon there will be no freedom to lose.
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        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
          It depends. Does verizon employee say on TV he works for verizon? How easily is he identified as a verizon public spokesperson-for example is he the face of verizon in commercials? Phil is easily identifiable as being on an A&E show. He was dumb to give his opinion of controversial topics in a public setting.
          *This ultimately should be decided by the contract. If it wasn't in the contract it would not matter what he said. Not every opinion matters.* Many people have been fired by businesses because they said things on FB their employers felt did not meet the contract of employment.
          I have already commented that this kind of thinking has lead to laws, my example was hate crimes. I do not see the flaw in my logic here. Try again.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
            "Phil is easily identifiable as being on an A&E show. He was dumb to give his opinion of controversial topics in a public setting."

            I disagree. Phil owns himself, A&E does not own him...they employ him. If he has to stay silent, or not give his honest opinion when asked then he is not being true to his principles. And for the life of me I can't believe anyone is surprised by his answer... especially his employer. This is a game of appeasement that Phil is not going to play. If he gets fired over it then so be it. Phil wins either way because Phil didn't compromise himself. :)
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
              He is entitled to his good opinion however he signed a contract that limits where and how under terms of employment mutually agreed to.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
                Have we seen the contract? We don't know WHAT he agreed to. He's said in other interview that's he's made phone calls to them about their editing practices (putting in bleeps to imply cuss words were being used when there weren't) and told them to stop it...and they did...so maybe the contract isn't what we're assuming it is. Phil's not green behind the ears and I can't see him signing anything that says he can't be him.
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                • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                  we do not know about the contract details, I am just saying it is standard in the Industry. and I'm not siding with A&E business practices, only saying they have a right to request that their stars conduct themselves within certain parameters while employed by the company. Phil can be himself and refuse to answer pointed, controversial questions. Also, I don't really care about what Phil says or doesn't say- I just think there should be consistent arguments. As a business owner you would not want a paid spokesperson for your business saying anything that would have the potential for driving away business or reflect on your business in a way that waa unacceptable to you as this unique business. We have argued for that all week in here until this story. Now many are arguing that A&E not have the right to limit a paid spokesperson in public. It is only logical that a contract includes such. It's probably just a set up anyway-and I do understand the chilling effect the media has on citizens expressing their "not-pc_ opinions. I don't like it one bit and wish the argument focused on that and not on making A&E the bad guy here. Unless they have a larger agenda as well. If the other guys had said their opinion first about not understanding why men would pick "vagina" over the other and were censored by A&E I wonder if Sarah Palin, for example, would be as vociferous in support of their public statement?
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
                    I don't think he's a paid "spokesperson" for A&E...he's on his own "reality" show... that is funded and airs on A&E... he said nothing bad about A&E, if he had this would be a different conversation. If he had deflected the question so he didn't have to answer it honestly it would have actually been disingenuous and tarnished HIS image, which IS the show... doubled edged sword...with one side being principled and the other playing to compromise. He did the right thing by answering the question honestly. Regardless if A&E finds cause to give him the ax or not. (Stop saying 'vagina' so much!)
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                  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
                    This is a problem I've always had with the feudal model of employment we have.

                    If a person works for a company, it should be a clientele relationship. The company is a client of the person. The person is selling his time, his physical effort, and his skill to the company. The company should, logically, only have any say in those matters. If he does a poor job, or doesn't do it in a timely fashion, then they are not getting that for which they contracted.

                    Now, one might argue that responding honestly to an interview question in an interview set up by or otherwise associated with the show violates the above. But I wouldn't.

                    What bothers me the most is the insistence that there's something "wrong" with him answering as he did. He expressed nothing that wasn't common sense up until the past decade or so.

                    And it's still common sense that putting your penis in a vagina is infinitely superior to putting it in a feces-filled anus.

                    (lf LetsShrug is offended, I'll edit the v-word to "merkin" for her...)
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
              Oh and he didn't say anything bad against A&E...if he had done that, such as your facebook example explained, then yeah, that's a different thing... but that's not what he did. And we don't know his contract of employment... I would like to think he wouldn't have signed up for muzzle wearing.
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              • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                did you see that two other A&E stars responded to the controversy? The gay couple are on storage wars. They didn't feel Phil should be fired and that he was a good guy. They just disagreed with him about vaginas being better than "man ass." then they said even more explicit stuff. looks like inter-network ratings war efforts off and running. now Phil has a good employment law case if he chooses
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
            Suppose someone were to come into the gulch and reveal failings and virtues of... say... Wal-mart.
            Would his speech be protected?
            Does Wal-mart have have the "right" to require him to sign a contract that allows them to control what he says on the internet, even if all he does is clean the floors at one of their stores?

            Would such a clause in a contract be sensible?

            If he willingly signed such a contract, would that entitle Walmart to censor his opinion on the rights of badgers to make necklaces out of macaroni? A topic having nothing to do with Wal-mart?

            How is this different from the internet company that billed the customers $3500 because they left a negative review?
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
        I don't.

        If I am paid to act, or to host a show, or to flip burgers, that is the full extent of the contractual obligation my employer has upon me.
        So long as I don't show my arse on the show, or behind the counter, they got no say in what I say on my time.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      Exactly. Everyone is now immune to the logic of if an individual says "X is bad" then the network must be saying too (being a false statement). Entertainment is so PC, that even movies stress how "sensitive" they are for almost any subject they are portraying.
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      • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 4 months ago
        Yeah that's correct. But A&E isn't out to change the way people think, they just want their money. So they pander to the populace using their best judgment of what the populace wants, whether it's wrong or right.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
      The people who own and manage the A&E network have an opinion. And sure, this guy is free to express his opinion all he wants, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
        That works both ways, Maph. And NO one at A&E agrees with Phil? A&E cannot have an opinion, only individuals can. Unless they take a vote of every single employee and it's unanimous they can't say it's A&E's opinion. I'm willing to lay bets that Phil doesn't give a rats ass what anybody thinks of him (OR what ever 'consequences' people try to lay on him)...I don't think he's ever cared what anyone thought of him...that's actually what's interesting about him. He doesn't play by mob rule, or try to fit in, or care about being PC. PHIL IS REFRESHING!!! I hope he tells A&E to fuck themselves and another network picks up the show. Or not. Phil will be happy happy happy no matter what. :) (lol 'consequences', for speaking his opinion...prrrbblllrrrtf.)
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        • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
          The company can absolutely have an official opinion. Such an opinion does not have to be decided by the unanimous consensus of every employee. Rather, the company's official stance can be decided by the owners, even if some employees disagree with that stance. Are there any employees at A&E who agree with Phil? Most likely, yes. But a corporation is not a democracy.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
            Then why not name names of who's official stance it really is. You'd be fine and dandy if NBC said it was their official stance that marriage is between one man and one woman and the opinions of Rosey O'Donnell or Ellen are not the opinions of NBC after they suspended them for speaking their opinion on marriage?
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            • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 4 months ago
              Because they don't have to name names. If I own the network I can decide on the principles that my network operates on. If you demand the name of who owns the company or which owner made which decision they have every right to tell you to mind your own business and you have every right to boycott them for whatever reason you want. But no one is immoral in this scenario.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
                Then that would be YOUR principles, which would be great if that's how they said it....but saying a 'network' has an opinion is goofy to me. It also rings of "one man is trying to buck our big huge company..ha ha ha fool... he should know better." Individuals have rights, groups (or networks) don't. But, sure, they have the right to fire at will...so why don't they then? Instead they suspend him...slap him on the hand cuz him's a bad bad boy! I'm getting curiouser and curiouser about this contract.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
    Another reason I don't watch that network.

    Frankly, I'm tired of being rammed down our throats. I don't grab a microphone and yell that everybody must accept left handed potters and give us special rights and consideration for jobs, education, and I demand anti discrimination laws to protect us left handed potters from all the right handed potters.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
      That's because left-handed people aren't discriminated against in the first place, so obviously no anti-discrimination legislation is necessary there.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
        My mother was punished by her teachers and forced to learn to write right-handed. She wasn't alone.

        Being wrong is becoming a full time preoccupation with you, it seems.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
    I fail to see the problem EXCEPT he said it where, quote " of A+E Networks, who have always been strong supporters and champions of the LGBT community.”

    I wonder if they are strong supporters of "heterosexual rights and community"? Me thinks not.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      Because it does not exist. You have to be "different" in todays world, so the emperor and his minions can segregate you out and cater to your whims. If you are just one of the masses, well, you're one of the masses. That's why we need to embrace everyone who is "different", and cherish and respect their "difference". Then they vote for us and buy our things, and watch our shows. Pure CS to me...
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      Now wait, it was A&E that said: "We are extremely disappointed to have read Phil Robertson’s comments in GQ, which are based on his own personal beliefs and are not reflected in the series Duck Dynasty. His personal views in no way reflect those of A+E Networks, who have always been strong supporters and champions of the LGBT community.”
      I don't give a rats A** about what he says, it is a free country and he has every right to say what he believes without a disclaimer. Of course it was his opinion, not A&E. I really dislike this whole "you must be connected by umbilical" thing they have going in the entertainment world. A&E has been milking them for 3-4 years now, and it started because they were such goofy back country goofballs (did you ever see the one where they were hunting the lizard in the warehouse?) that they were funny. Now they are rich, and A&E made a bundle off them. It's not the first time they have expressed their conservative opinions, they have reflected some of that in their show as well. All he did was state his opinion, and that should be that. I didn't see any ramming going on with this, in fact, had A&E left well enough alone, instead of doing a knee jerk "Keep the gays happy" response to a non-existent issue, it would never have come to light. Maybe gay people wouldn't have had a problem with it, maybe they would, but that would be between them and him, and A&E should keep out of it. Part of the risk with doing the reality type stuff, people talk, and they can't control them 24x7.
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      • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
        As the network that hosts the show, A&E most certainly needed to make their own stance known. And seeing as how GQ is widely read, I don't see how you came to the conclusion that no one would have known about this if A&E hadn't said anything. People still would have read the GQ article, even if A&E had remained silent.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
          SO WHAT? Let the world know what Phil Robertson said...big whoopity doo. A&E has made a huge deal out of nothing for the sake of trying to appease some who's feeeeelings might be hurt. Grow up! Phil Robertson is A&E's cash cow and they just sent him to the slaughter house....for speaking his opinion. What a bunch of weeny whiny wind bag idiots.
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          • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
            I agree with you, in that A&E are a whiny, crowd pleasing bunch of wimps.I saw his comments, and not one word was racist, homophobic, or any other brand name of silliness. He just stated his belief in what he sees. You cannot let a bunch of crowd pleasers tell you that your constitutional right to free speech is non-existent because you "offended" their tender sensibilities. One reason there is a so much animosity about gays is that they want to ram their agenda down everyones throat and force you to approve of them, even if you don't.

            This is the sickest article yet, it basically is a roadmap from "damage control" experts on how Phil should come begging their forgivness for being so "mean". BullS*&%*. he did nothing wrong, said nothing wrong, other than he is very blunt and straightforward. The LGBT community, GLAAD and all the rest of their buddies need to grow up and get a spine and say" ok, that's your opinion, but we disagree" and leave it at that.

            http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/how--d...
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
              Even Fox News shows don't get it. i was just watching The Five where they were going on about how he "already" apologized, and how the issue was over because he said it and then apologized for it.

              Why? if it was his honest opinion, his belief system, why does he need to apologize?

              If a man's religious belief dictates that one must not eat the meat of a pig, and he expresses said belief in an interview, does he really have to apologize to the hog industry of America?
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
              People have forgotten what "tolerance" is. Anymore, to be tolerant, one must be "accepting"... and that's NOT what tolerance is.
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            • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
              Your Constitutional right to free speech does not mean you can never be censored by anyone ever, it just means you can never be censored by the government. The Constitution is a limitation on the government, not a limitation on private business.

              Was Phil arrested or executed by the state for what he said? No, he wasn't. Therefore, his freedom of speech has not been denied.
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              • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                Then why was he unfairly removed from the show? For his speech. Ergo: He has been denied the right to free speech. The same people that are whining and crying about how "mean" he is, are the ones who will be first in line to tell you all about "their rights". It goes both ways, and they have accused him of some really bad things, that bear no relation to his comments. It is pure, special interest "we can do but you can not" B.S.
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                • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                  Public vs private. If Phil were the a
                  CEO of Apple, wouldyou find those comments appropriate in a public setting?
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                  • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                    If Phil were the CEO of Apple, I would quickly shed my Apple stock! But Phil is as much a character as a real person, that is the whole point of the series. These are some serious, o0ff the wall loons! But very rich loons. And if the CEO of Apple was interviewed by GQ and asked his views on homosexuality or whatever trick question prompted this, I would still sell all my Apple stock if he replied withother than "No comment". That still does not get around the fact this guy was interviewed by a magazine/show and asked specific questions. he answered them as honest as he does most things. Straight up responses. If A&E didn't want the dude doing that, they should have vetted the questions, and it should have been a restriction in their contract. Short of that, he still has every right to express his opinion, his way. If people don't like it, don't watch the show. But turn off the "our hurt feelings" drivel. It is obnoxious and annoying, especially from a bunch of opportunistic, in your face, rub it in I'm gayer than a 3 dollar bill and you have to love me for it organization like GLAAD.
                    Thank you, much better now....
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                    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                      Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings out there. 3 dollar bills are really not gay.
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                      • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                        I think
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                        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                          I don't understand the 3 dollar bill analogy-like straight as a board? I completely understand the anger people are expressing over a vocal minority trying to shang hai free speech in the name of phobias and racism. No offense intended to the chinese who are living in Shang hai currently or in the past. But for any chinese who will attempt to shame me from using a euphemism which is not intended as hate, what nonsense.
                          A racist is someone who has an irrational opinion about people based solely on their ethnic group. It doesn't have to be negative either. One might say Asians are more intelligent than any other race. That is an irrational statement. However, making broad statements about groups is not irrational.
                          Blacks have the highest out of wedlock birthrate in the US is a rational statement.
                          As long as one's irrational beliefs are not affecting your rights, there is no conflict other than an intellectual one. However, there is concerted effort to underway to publicly shame people for anything anyone believes offends. That is irrational and many fear with good reason that rights are in danger of being violated (free speech) if we keep on this path. In fact, this has come true. Instead of murder being murder-it can now be a crime of hate.
                          Murder is murder. A is A
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                          • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                            The 3 dollar bill thing was an old (back in the days of 2 dollar bills) way of stressing something. When 2 dollar bills went away, the saying shifted to a stressful remark. It is used to exaggerate a statement. The GLAAD people and other homosexual reactives like to go from 0-60 in 1 second in any discussion. They can't have a quiet discourse, it always ends up like a Hannity show shouting, screaming match. This is a perfect example, PHil expressed his opinion, and rather that just say "we disagree", they state he is an example of how ALL AMERICA HATES GAY PEOPLE AND WILL EXTERMINATE THEM IN 10 SECONDS GIVEN THE CHANCE UNLESS WE KILL ANYONE WHO EVER SAYS THE SLIGHTEST NEGATIVE THING!!!!!!! (caps indicate a shrill screaming voice). One reason I do not listen to any such arguments, I turn it off as soon as the shrill noise erupts. Which is never long in most discussion with a Liberal, Democrat, Minority or "oppressed" group. The only "minority" group I have not ever heard from is the the one representing overworked, underpaid, over taxed, unrepresented older white males. Maybe we are too rare to congregate in groups greater than 2?
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          • -2
            Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
            If A&E wants to impose probation on people who express homophobia and racism, they're perfectly within their right to do so. The network is their own private property, and as such, they're free to impose any censorship on it that they want.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 4 months ago
              He's not homophobic...he doesn't have a fear of them...he just doesn't agree with them. If a gay person says something against heteros you'd be okay with them getting probation?
              Do you hear your own argument?? You just said A&E is a private business and they can run it the way they want to....but in the case of the cake business..HECK no....the cake business MUST make a cake for whoever wants to pay for one. Make up your mind Maph, you can't have your cake and eat it too... A is A.
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              • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
                "Homophobia" doesn't necessarily mean a fear of gay people, just like the word "xenophobia" doesn't mean you jump up on a chair in fright whenever a foreigner walks into the room. Rather, these words mean hatred and dislike, not necessarily fear.

                The cake thing was a matter of discrimination, which is a totally different issue from censorship. Can a company engage in discrimination? No, they can't. But can a company engage censorship? Absolutely. My argument was for the protection of immutable characteristics. Speech is not an immutable characteristic.
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                • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
                  And red doesn't mean red, it can mean blue, or purple.

                  phobia = fear, not hate.

                  This censorship is discrimination, unless they prove they would suspend anyone who says that homosexuality is normal/healthy and moral.
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                • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                  No, speech is speech. Any one genius enough to determine it is "hate speech" is probably so smart and perfect they are God's 2nd cousin. No one has the right to muzzel anyone, which is exactly what A&E and all the LGBT community mouthpieces are trying to do. They just love to do a screaming knee-jerk reaction to anything they do not agree with, and cover it all with emotionally charged terms that simple minded Americans love to render things down to. Example: the infamous "30 second soundbite" And censorship by a company can only be limited to a company in regards to their property. The Duck gang are not A&E's property, they are engaged in a contractual relationship for services, that's it. Phil expressed his opinion outside that (unless they have a clause that prohibits any outside communications, which no one has yet to mention). He has every right to speak his mind. I don't necessarily subscribe to his interpretations and beliefs, but it is not my place (or anyone else's) to tell him what he can and cannot say. A&E and GLAAD need to have a Constitutional Retreat where they actually read it and then follow it, rather than engaging in all this screaming and whining.
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                  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
                    No one has a right to muzzle anyone? Actually, yes they do. A television network has the right to muzzle anyone who wants to appear on the network. If you don't want to accept the network's muzzle, that's fine, the network doesn't have to allow you to appear on their station.

                    As I said before, the Constitution does not apply to non-government entities.
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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
              It's not homophobia to quote a book that was also one of the foundational documents of our nation and culture.

              There were no Racist comments made - that's one of the claims thrown out by the left to shut down conversation when they are losing a argument. It's also well below your abilities.
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              • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
                Quoting a homophobic passage from a book is still homophobic, even if the book in question happens to be ancient.

                As for the racist part, please see this topic:
                http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/2e...
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                • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
                  Thank you for finally getting down to it.

                  Any disapproval of homosexuality is "homophobia", in the homophilia handbook.

                  Typical of the left, leap immediately from disagreement to hatred.

                  You do realize that homosexuals make up a very small percentage of the population, and by punishing people for expressing views held by the majority of society for centuries, making them suddenly somehow "bad" people will result in a backlash that the homophiliac community *will* not like?
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                • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
                  Since the term "Homophobic" dates from 1955-1960, and the Bible dates from a few years before that, using the term is like filing a complaint with the FAA that the Wright Brothers never met the on time schedule. It just doesn't work. Also, you are using it in a denigrating way, since you are claiming a person has a specific mind set, and calling him a disparaging name. Sounds a lot like a member of GLAAD would.....
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                • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
                  As for your disparaging comment about the Bible, I'll make a deal with you since we will never reach agreement about the value of that book - I'll not tromp on you gods, don't tromp on mine. Some of us have bled, lost limbs, been confined to wheelchairs and lost many friends defending our right to believe and exercise those beliefs as we see fit. That's about as kind as I care to be on this subject. The word of God is not homophobic, but it is sharper than a two edged sword. If it cuts, there may be a reason.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
              And if homophiles insist upon coercing television networks into embracing their obsession, then ordinary people have a perfect right to boycott said network until they purge the homophiles from their business.
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            • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
              And the Duckies are equally free to tell the network to F off. Which they should, some other network would scoop them up. They should also get it in their contract no censorship, and that they have every right to say anything, anywhere, anyway they want, as long as it is not in direct relationship to the show.
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              • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
                They're certainly free to leave A&E network if they want, unless of course they're already under some sort of prearranged contract for a certain period of time, which may very well be the case. So if they want to move to another network, they'd have to wait for their current contract to expire, or work out a deal with A&E. Though if they did leave A&E, I doubt any other network would be willing to sign a contract with a non-censorship clause. Networks like to maintain control of the shows they air.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
      Why not? What makes you think those things are mutually exclusive? One does not have to choose between supporting gay rights and supporting the rights of straight people. It's entirely possible to support both.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 4 months ago
        It's inevitable to support both, since rights belong to individuals, not groups.

        A person suffering from homosexuality, or dyslexia, has the exact same rights as a person not suffering from any illness.
        No more, no less, no different.

        Because groups don't have rights, only individuals do.
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        • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
          I think the term I used was "community", not "person".

          There is no such thing as gay rights, anymore than there is any such thing as heterosexual rights.

          Maph warped my statement into a phrase I did nor use in order to support his position. There are human rights which all humans share equally, which are inseparable from them regardless of race, sex, politics religion or whatever division you care to find.

          Then there are privileges granted or denied baaed on community. THESE are determined by the community, such political forces that may exist, or religious doctrine. Here we will find such separation as disparacy between heterosexual and homosexual because the sociological intent is different between the two groups.

          This is also where the conflict lies. Heterosexual unions, pair bonding, whatever label you choose have evolved for one specific purpose - propagation of the species by providing offspring with the most successful environment - protective, nurturing, educating home. The most fundamental aspect of this is of course the ability to reproduce.

          In all of these areas the homosexual "community" can only "mimic" the successful pair bonding of heterosexual couples. They are the sociological equivalent to biological (or genetic) "mules". They cannot breed within their pair bonding. They see the successful hetro couples raising children and desiring their own, the must adopt since they cannot reproduce. Some revert to outside "help" in order to gain "offspring", that is not true reproduction within a pair bonded couple.

          So lets briefly look at the moaning of the moment - marriage. Conceived is some time before history as a religious rite to consecrate the pair pair bonding, marriage eventually became one of the hallmarks of a successful life. Another was the birth and successful rearing of children.

          Marriage eventually was codified into law, becoming the recognized political union of a man and a woman to each other. And in many countries privileges were granted to these couples based on their value to that nation - the value, my friends is that they can reproduce themselves.

          In all of these things, the homosexual community fails. Such pair bonding as exists cannot itself reproduce. Such pair bonding's as occur may provide an emotionally warm home for a child, there are aspects of a male/female pair bonding that a homo pair bonding cannot offer. Argue as you may, they are not the same.

          In all areas of pair bonding, homo attempts to mimic hetro. but fails. The call for homo "marriage" today is no less a cry for help than the rest. The most that can be offered is a civil union since the reason for biological marriage cannot exist. But civil unions are rejected as "not being the same" - really? No kidding?

          Why is this most basic level political marriage, a civil union being rejected? At most, beyond the privileges granted to hetro pair bonding's are religious in nature. The State is not responsible for that aspect of marriage and by our constitution cannot interfere with the actions of the Church.

          Tthe conclusion is that most religions reject homo "marriage" as an abomination and a corruption of doctrine. Today, there are no calls in this country for the killing of those professing to be homosexuals, but that's not the case in all countries.

          Duck Sr. here made a statement that was his in line religious viewpoint. He has free speech, just as his detractors do. He can express his faith and offer his interpretation of their doctrines. So, again I say he had every right to offer his opinion.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
            while I agree with some of what you said I must disagree with your pair bonding theory. Let me blow a hole in it off the top. Under your theory a hetero couple who cannot conceive can only "mimic" an ideal family if they were to choose adoption.
            What about birth parents who give up their right to raise their child? are they a perfect model? This idea that gay couples only wish to "mimic" parenthood is illogical. Human beings are social. Not in every culture, but most live in family units. A strong family should be defined in terms of certain values and morals-not their ability to procreate. That is the least of any discernible value I can think of. That a man or woman can impregnate/get pregnant as the highest value is ridiculous. That this biological function ability is the highest value to a nation - I'm speechless, star!
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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
              My apologies, I forgot to address one of your statements - quote; That a man or woman can impregnate/get pregnant as the highest value is ridiculous.

              OK, here we go and prepare to be further astonished my friend;

              As a society decides that procreation is no longer important, it will cease to be a viable part of humanity. Further, it be lead onto treks that place that society into servitude to societies which do not encourage such foolishness.

              You may say that I am less then informed because all the great minds agree that homosexuality is just another way to live in peace. Sound vaguely familiar???

              Here is what I know. Before their demise as a great culture, Egypt, Greece, Rome and a few lesser powers each embraced homosexuality, transvestites, and all kinds of perversion I won't speak of. When the "huns" were at the gate, none of these once great military powers were able to muster enough soldier to defend themselves. Why? Because each had seen a marked decrease in the population of the nation.

              These are historical facts. The data about the decrease in population is in history books before they were rewritten to be politically correct.

              You may still contend that a society that feel procreation is not as important as I see it is a better path. I'll just ask, "Where are the inhabitants of Rhode Island Colony?" or the "tribe of stone carves on Easter Island?"

              The real history books are stuffed with societies that did not survive. The number of citizens they can field in a war is ALWAYS why they are gone, far too often the reason was a turn to practices that reduced the population.

              Sorry, history is often not kind, particularly to those who ignore it's lessons.
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              • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                Population decreases are due to increase of the Malthusian trap point, or decrease in personal freedom levels. Population increases happen when people prosper, although population increases in poor nations lead to more people suffering or starving.
                I don 't really see that sexuality preference would impact more than the two other reasons. Yes, the species must survive but giving special or moral status to those who choose to procreate seems off. It is natural for humans to have sex. They'll have it! You can 't catch homosexuality and it is not a threat to the species. Natural rights and liberties are afforded to every individual so as long as we don't t support societies that force you to not have children they'll happen and more orphaned children or poorly treated children will survive.
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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 4 months ago
              First, I am speaking of the general sociological drives of the species, not specific cases. In the case of infertile couples, historically the couple dissolved because the reason they joined to each other was to bear prodigy. In a small culture, such as a tribal group, the ability to reproduce is essential. Any grouping that does not result in reproduction can lead to the death of the group. Surly that is obvious.

              The drive to reproduce is one of the most powerful in all creatures. There are reasons. It is also why we are social beings.

              I'm very certain that you are a kind and caring person, as I feel I am. I would never deny a infertile couple to adopt just as I will welcome a couple (or single parent) that cannot take care of a child or who refuses to care properly for their child to surrender their child. I also would, as I have done in the past, step up to welcome that child into my home and family as my own son or daughter. That is a social obligation in my mind. These children that are lost in the welfare system are a shame on our society. Those parents who place their children into the meat grinder like that need to be publicly flogged - but again these are not the big picture norm of hetro society.

              All that said I stand on each statement I made and conclusion I drew. Study some anthropology and sociology (not what passes for the subject today - that is just liberal programming).
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              • Posted by khalling 10 years, 4 months ago
                I have taken courses in both, its been a long time now. Yes if we choose not to breed or cant breed tribes or races can die off. That's why we trade and when we trade freely populations increase. We are arguing not over our physical natures but the importance morally of our physical ability to do so. Under capitalism huge advancements in fertility and increased birth rates are of great value to a society. Including gay couples conceiving and having
                children.I do agree valuing having a family in the first place is important and should be encouraged but not at the ignoring of other values including capitalism and its benefits to increasing a country 's population and overall wealth. The US is now over 300 million people. We are a relatively young nation.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 4 months ago
    Why The Racist And Homophobic ‘Duck Dynasty’ Comments Have Nothing To Do With Free Speech:

    "Robertson is a free man. He has not been arrested for his beliefs. He could continue to say whatever he’d like and, given the current media frenzy, it would probably be quickly published in many other places. Robertson could even take to his own website and publish whatever he wants to say, and individuals could share it through social media the world over. His freedom of speech has been in no way encumbered.

    A&E, as a company, enjoys constitutional protections as well, and is under no obligation to provide a platform for messages it disagrees with."

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/12/19...
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    • Posted by Eudaimonia 10 years, 4 months ago
      You claim to be an Objectivist and a producer, and then you go on to quote George Soros puppet-megaphone "Think Progress"?

      I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you might have some premises which need to be untangled.
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