Constitution

Posted by conn24 10 years, 5 months ago to Politics
43 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

So, if we had to start over (post apocalypse) what would you add or subtract from the constitution? For me the removal of the "elastic clause" would best serve man.


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
    The Constitution stands....but add:
    Terms limits
    Clearer 2nd Amendment (It's clear now, but I'd like it to say the citizens can own whatever the military has access too. Fighting tyranny, equal weaponry.)
    Secure borders and property rights.
    There shall be no taxation on property.
    No taxing human existence.
    No government influence (monetarily or curriculum) in schooling of children. Parents are responsible to make sure their kids are educated.
    No social programs.
    No interference with business whatsoever. Free to success, free to fail.
    No monetary help for other countries.
    The US must be self sustainable and not rely on other countries for any resources.
    Gold backed currency....or go back to gold/silver coins.
    Show ID to vote.
    (Okay...I'm tired.)
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
      While showing an ID to vote is certainly necessary, it is not sufficient. We have what an old Roman philosopher called a society of "bread and circuses." Politicians take from one group (or borrow) to give to others. The group of freeloaders gets so large that the producers can no longer support the largesse.
      What we need is a mechanism to ensure that all voters have a stake in the system. My preference would be something like 2 years service to earn the right to vote and to serve in any federal elected position. Could be military service, some form of medical service, or some internal humanitarian service.
      Only by earning something do people realize the value of it.
      Just my humble opinion.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
        Starship Troopers.

        On Sparta, one has to do a series of services and pass evaluations, and be sponsored by a phraeterie, before one can become a citizen. Non-citizens have rights, they just don't get a say in the government. That's in the Falkenberg's Legion series of books, volumes "Go Tell the Spartans" and "Prince of Sparta".

        Until I read that series of books, I viewed Heinlein's society of Starship Troopers as most preferable. After reading Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion series, The Spartan dual monarchy became a society I would die for.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
        That would be force and gov coercion. The gov would love nothing more than to force the young into "service". I think that's where they're headed already...student loans will at some point come with strings of "service".
        I disagree with you. Some will not appreciate freedom until it is completely gone. How do we wake up that realization, and back it with self responsibility, and have everyone with skin in the game?
        Let's think about this. What was going on in this country when people were the most responsible and self reliant...and free? (Hint: We didn't have social safety nets... if you didn't pull your own weight you had to rely on charity... people avoided asking for charity, back then it wa embarrassing. Once people did what they had to do to get back on their feet they had some pride and renewed motivation to never go back to having to ask for charity again. We've lost that element. It's related to the risk of hunger.)
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 5 months ago
          Right after we won the revolutionary War and just before they started a new government. I think the whiskey tax rebellion is the beginning of this road we've been on and continue down.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years, 5 months ago
          You do realize that was so long ago that everyone was showing up drunk to work, right? ;)
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by dwcarmi 10 years, 5 months ago
            That might be true, but they only had horses or wagons. More to the point, we still had our freedoms until Wilson was President. Things started unraveling then and have increased since then. After Obama things have been on steroids.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years, 5 months ago
              He is not as effective as Wilson. Wilson was incredibly interested in getting his hands on any new technology. He modernized every aspect of the government and the military by having a real hands on approach with producers or inventors. Obama, on the other hand, thought he was so slick with exploiting the youth vote by using every means of social media available to him, but then failed miserably to get a website up and running. This was a huge blunder on his part. It’s kind of poetic justice.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by dwcarmi 10 years, 5 months ago
                That's true but you have to remember he gave us the Federal Reserve and the IRS. Obama is proving to be the worse President in history by blatantly flouting the law and for creating the most corrupt and power hungry administration ever.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 5 months ago
          No, there would be no gov't coercion. The right to vote (and exercise your communal control over all) would only be earned after having contributed to the society as a whole in the first place. Deciding not to contribute, and therefore not earn the right to vote for the political class, would be a freewill choice.
          Yes, this was one of the themes from Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers (more so the book than the movies).
          In a society where you can vote yourself money, without having contributed one thing of any value, it is only a matter of time before a sufficient number of people will figure that out. Once it happens, there is little chance of ever going back, and the society (or at least the political aspect of that society) is doomed to fail.
          Again, just my humble opinion.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
      If you understand what a constitution is and why the US Constitution endures with so few amendments, you realize the challenge in writing any of those proposals into objective language.

      This point "No interference with business whatsoever." appears almost verbatim at the end of Atlas Shrugged as Judge Narragansett writes a new constitution. However, that prohibits your call for "The US must be self sustainable and not rely on other countries for any resources."

      According to the epistemology of Objectivism, no such entity as "The United States" exists. It is a reification. While you might mean that the US government must always procure all resources only from American citizens living within the USA, that would make it impossible for the military to obtain platinum or nickel.
      "Gold backed currency....or go back to gold/silver coins." would contradict the provision that the Congress is empowered to borrow on the credit of the United States. You might argue well against that and insist on gold and/or silver. But therein is a different problem: bimetallism. Moreover, if you understand economics as for instance from F. A. Hayek, you realize that whatever "money" is cannot be left to the power of the government to define but must be left to the open market. You could argue that the government must always and only use gold and/or silver (ignoring the problem of bimetallism) but that would remove the government from the market, which is not a capitalist solution to the problem of government finance in a free society.

      A federal mandate "Show ID to vote." would violate the present Constitution which generally leaves to the states to determine who is qualified to vote. And what is ID? Do you really want people to have to register with the STATE POLICE in order to VOTE? How would that not lay the ground work for a police state?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 5 months ago
        Welp...I guess I'm not going to the Constitutional Convention... I'll go unpack...
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
          I think that you would be voted a seat by your constituents. The American colonists created several compacts and charters before the present Constitution. Read the Albany Plan of Union.

          Your specific proposals might not make the final cut, but you have identified some of the issues that would frame such debates.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 5 months ago
        Re: Mike Marotta,

        We already have a state ID card, it's called a drivers license and the rest of the few that don't have a license usually have state issued ID already as well. The simple truth is that the objection to requiring ID's to vote is that it would eliminate the voter fraud that is already part of the democrat electorate. That's not to say that republicans haven't engaged in a little fraud themselves over the years.

        As to Platinum, there is some U.S. production while ther are no nickel mines at present. I don't believe that the Constitution forbids the purchase of those metals from anywhere in the world. based on your statement, it is only prohibited to the government to purchase directly from foreign countries.

        Fred Speckmann
        commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
          A driver's license is not an ID. This used to be a source of annoyance for police when stopping pedestrians.

          It doesn't matter what party they're with; a voter ID to vote is simply common sense. Imagine, say, China sending over a million people to vote in our elections. How are we to know whether they are eligible to vote without ID?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 5 months ago
            Re:Hiraghm,
            I agree that a voter ID is needed as a separate identification for voting. My point was that the objection to a voter ID by democrats is simply a ruse to continue with voter fraud. By the way, a drivers license is considered proper ID for almost all purposes, but keep in mind that there is in fact no legal requirement for anyone to carry any form of ID. This of course raises the question how any authority can require an ID for anything that is not for private business purposes such as cashing a check. For example, to enter a government building, an ID is required when in fact is is public property and such a requirement can not in reality be enforced under any present law.

            Fred Speckmann
            commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 5 months ago
        The US was on the gold standard up until 1973. I would like to see us return to that standard. What's wrong with voter ID? The question was a new constitution after the apocalypse. Who is to say we would still have individual states? Why can't the private sector issue the ID's? If we have a new constitution written with the current batch of politicians in Washington then I think I'll go Gault.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 5 months ago
          well Galt, join me. because I left based on the ignoring of the current Constitution-and the last straw for me was the passage of the Affordable Care Act. We do not have rule of law anymore. believe it
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
          We ALWAYS had "voter ID." You voted in your precinct where you were known by your neighbors. You had to register to vote first, of course; then you signed your name to validate your registration.

          You could be challenged. After 30 years in the same neighborhood, my grandmother was challenged and had to return home for her citizenship papers. That was over 50 years ago. Just sayin... we always had voter ID. Things are just more complicated now.

          If you want to re-write the Constitution from scratch - no states, for instance - then that is a deeper discussion. Feel free to propose...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
          • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 5 months ago
            I find it ironic that the people who object to any Christian expression in school or public places, have been dead silent for years as churches are used as voting stations....

            Must have States. The U.S. is a union of free republics. The best form of society is this Russian doll model, where people can set up communities that suit them, or move from one that doesn't, to one that does.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 5 months ago
          If a system works why change it? A voter ID solves a problem that just isn't there. It's another stumbling block being put out by the extreme right to discourage some on our society from participating.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by cjferraris 10 years, 5 months ago
    We have strayed so far away from the original intent of the founders of this country. The constitution was never intended to turn this country into a welfare state.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 5 months ago
    First, as to the Necessary and Proper clause, a clarification would be in order: that this applies ONLY to the enumerated powers of the Constitution, and to any Section of any Amendment saying, "Congress shall have the power to enforce this article through appropriate legislation."

    Beyond that:

    I believe Judge Narragansett, toward the end of AS, proposed a new Amendment: "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of production and trade."

    I would strike the enumerated power "to establish post offices and post roads."

    I would strike Amendments XVI and XVII.

    I would add a section to let States or their electorates recall their Congressional or Senate delegations, or any member(s) thereof, for any good reason, bad reason, or no reason.

    I would put in an explicit set of Amendments to authorize the creation of air and space forces, and then declare that the Congress shall have NO POWER to raise any other kind of military force without amending the Constitution further.

    I would in that connection reform Clause 17 to state positively WHAT CONSTITUTES THE NEEDFUL BUILDINGS TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The original Constitution said: FORTS, MAGAZINES, ARSENALS, AND DOCKYARDS. It was NEVER supposed to include reserving vast tracts of land for federal management. It's time for an enumerated list of "needful buildings" and a declaration that Congress shall not purchase any lands for the construction of any other sort of building.

    I would establish an office of National Sheriff, to be elected separately and apart from the President, with full authority to serve Writs of Quo Warranto and other such common-law writs. Including writs of expulsion for passing unconstitutional laws. AND: vetting the Natural Born Citizenship qualifications of candidates for the offices of President and Vice-President. And with regard to this last, I would define a Natural Born Citizen strictly, according to Emmerich de Vattel's definition: one born in-country to TWO, count them, TWQ citizen parents.

    I am open to any other suggestions.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Spinkane 10 years, 5 months ago
    You could argue, the commerce clause and welfare clause need to be clarified; but it wouldn’t matter; the rub is when politicians interpret the constitution in an unintended way; rationalizing words to justify an agenda. The constitution should be interpreted by the definition if it’s words at the time it was written. “Promote the general welfare” had to be rationalized to include free cell phones for example.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by ogr8bearded1 10 years, 5 months ago
    Every law, or resolution having the force of law, shall relate to but one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title
    I call this the no pork amendment. This was actually part of the Confederate Constitution.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 5 months ago
    richrobinson wrote:"The US was on the gold standard up until 1973. I would like to see us return to that standard."

    That is why I pointed to the earlier discussion on "Contradictions in the Constitution." Do you mean that the US Government should be on a gold standard? Or do you mean that ONLY the US Government should be on the gold standard? Or that no one should be allowed to make any money that is not on the gold standard? And what do you mean by "standard"?

    The question is what, whether, and to what extent ONLY the federal government should do things like make treaties with foreign nations or whether the government is ALSO empowered to do things that PRIVATE entities or other governments do, such as establish weights and measures or publish a Congressional journal. (Private parties have always reported the business of the US Senate.)

    The Constitution gives Congress the power to define weights and measures. But anyone can create their own - and NIST is a non-regulatory agency of the Department of Commerce.

    See, we have a deeper problem than just declaring this or that to be in the Constitution.

    As for the gold standard of 1973 it only applied to FOREIGN holders of US dollars: US citizens could not get gold for US dollars between 1933 and 1983. Today the US Mint sells gold bullion coins in return for FRNs, so the US Government does have a de facto market-price gold standard.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo