Midas didn't take a survey, but I am not Midas. I don't know how many people we are talking about, so without Midas, we need to do the best we can. We'll look forward to your pork loin.

I don't believe midas mulligan ever took a survey. He saw an opportunity to live out his life in a way that he chose. because of his ability to see value where others did not he created a development that attracted all of the other like-minded individuals. For Atlantis to happen a developer will have to take the initial risk with the belief that the demand will follow. The rest of his market will only look for his value when they reach the point that the value in their current situation has gone over the edge. Just like in the story we will all come to that point at different times and in different ways. The likelihood of one development for all gulchers in my mind is remote. The fact remains that a community that can survive and thrive at that level will of its nature be small and populated by like-minded individuals. It sounds like some of you have have had the opportunity to build relation ships outside this forum. I wish you luck and hope this forum will be the one esy that like minded communities will communicate on the future. We will need to reestablish trade, value for value, right!? I bet my succulent smoked pork loin will be in demand!:)

Thanks for the info on Lani, ISank.

I think a pretty large % of the 3000 population is getting on in their years. School graduates between 20 to 50 students in a year. It will be interesting, but yea the state is pathetic.

I like the Bora idea, it's beautiful or a stone throw away in Tahaa. Guys commute on their 1 man Va'a others on a Jett ski. I bare boated a 36 ftr a few years ago and moseyed around Huahine, Tahaa, Raiatea, and Bora. Good stuff!

We've got several people with systems engineering background around here, but your contributions would be most welcome, UncommonSense. You would bring some skills that would complement mine well.

As for Bora Bora and Diego Garcia, they have come up in discussions. The Fijians are in first place right now, but the sample size is pretty small.

Well, BJ, we're not ready yet. My guess is that on my scale, if the answer to C is within 20 points of B, people will stay because Atlantis isn't developed yet.

I have been gathering data on Gulcher capabilities, sometimes behind the scenes. We have most of the key skill sets covered other than a Midas Mulligan.

The key is the diference between answers B and C. The answer to C must be less than B for someone to consider leaving.

With hydraulic fracturing, the US is succeeding despite the expropriation of the pols ... for now.
America is no longer a republic, and the moochers who elect their looter masters/pimps outnumber us badly. Abandoning the US is on the table given that the voters doubled down on Obama crony socialism.

Probably not, but perhaps Ellison's Lanai might be an option with the right person talking to him about true sustainability.

Perhaps after a few years Ellison might realize that entrepeneurism is only sustainable with the right values.

While it's very interesting to engage each other here in the virtual gulch, any realistic possibility would require meticulous recruiting. Having a collection of like thinking individuals is nice, but productive people are the key.
*(I am NOT impugning anyone's intellect, ability or commitment. We just don't know each other and the quality of the habitants of Atlantis would determine any level of success possible)

well that's the MOST important thing Larry.

so the native Hawaiians may well get their own designation to govern themselves. will they pick an Atlantis consistent Constitution or governing mechanism?

A) U.S. (3) Government largess is even bigger than Ayn had envisioned and I think before a collapse can happen (which is a sad necessity in order to rebuild), a pointless civil war will occur first.
B) 65... IF it's either large enough or their are enough similar sites with people capable and willing to rebuild
C) 65. If presented with a plausible option, or I can figure it out, my wife and I are ready to go. We've positioned ourselves in the last 2 years for such an opportunity.

I've heard from some of my acquaintances that Bora Bora is pretty damn close to being like Atlantis. Anyone here been there? Diego Garcia was damn nice (Operation Deny Christmas 1998), but you can't go there unless you're military AND you're on orders. (Sorry, no "leave" status personnel or retired allowed)

If there was anyplace to go that wasn't infected by the Central Banking cabal/UN BS, regardless of how bad the weather, I would go there.

Anyways,

A: 5 (no hope, no change either)
B: 70 (Got systems engineering/enterprise architecture? hey I'm six sigma green belt certified, let's get lean!)
C: Don't know.

Circuit Guy
Indeed, the US is still the best.
With more energy independence happening, financially the US will get better. If the pols don't expropriate. The whole hydraulic fracturing phemon is one more example of US technical excellence.
The issue is not to abandon the US. The issue is if enough smart people get together to make it better.
Harry M

We'll try something far more quantitative and organized if this qualitative measure suggests that game planning for Atlantis NOW is merited. It will take a few years to get Atlantis to the point where Gulchers would want to move there, because you are starting from zero.

A pain index was what I was looking for in the infringement on liberty objective, and really I only need a rough estimate. I have put in my own examples as a first cut at criteria. I don't think we're close enough to a complete tyranny yet for the vast majority of Gulchers to be serious about leaving yet, with you, db, and straightlinelogic as exceptions. Some like Eudaimonia have moved internally within the US, and that I think is the best example of about where we are at right now. It's too bad to stay in a really blue state, but most red states are still tolerable enough for now.

it now belongs (98%) to Larry Ellison. He is a "take no prisoners" entrepeneur. His plans?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/04...

True enough, but things can change. I wouldn't have considered moving 15 years ago.

the cg propaganda train. we have MORE regulation, MORE taxes, MORE cronyism, LESS property right protection than any time in US history. what are you smokin today...

yes, understood. Not a bad way to go. but it's kind of like a pain index. The doctor asks each patient on a scale from one to ten, tell me how much pain you're feeling. I am at an 8 the minute I cross the border. You're a 3, so maybe some more criteria.

well, Hawaii as a whole is so blue they should stop holding their breath...

There is phenomenal opportunity in the US right now, but there is only incentive if the entire "stable government" you referred to is completely dislodged. The fact that so many things are FREE is a sign of the end, not of a bright future.