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Robert Heinlein on aliens being allowed to vote

Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 3 weeks ago to Philosophy
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“I think a world democracy would be a very fine thing and I ask that you believe me when I say I would willingly lay down my life to accomplish it. I also think it would be a very fine thing for the lion to lie down with the lamb, but I am reasonably certain that only the lion would get up. If we try to form an actual world democracy, we’ll be the lamb in the setup.

There are a lot of good, kindly people who are internationalists these days. Nine out of ten of them are soft in the head and the tenth is ignorant. If we set up a worldwide democracy, what will the electorate be? Take a look at the facts: Twelve hundred million Chinese with no more concept of voting and citizen responsibility than a flea; a billion Hindus who aren’t much better indoctrinated; God knows how many in the EU who believe in God knows what; the entire continent of Africa only semicivilized; 100 million Japanese who really believe that they are Heaven-ordained to rule; our Spanish-American friends who might trail along with us and might not, but who don’t understand the Bill of Rights the way we think of it. No, it won’t wash. It’s preposterous to talk about a world democracy for many years to come.
What are you going to do about the billions of people who have no experience in, nor love for, democracy?"
- General Manning from Solution Unsatisfactory


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  • Posted by  $  mminnick 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    A global democracy will never be achieved. A democracy is too cumbersome to operate with a large number of people. Substitute republic for democracy and you have a chance of making it. Witness the time and effort it took to get the USA established as a republic (note: it is a republic not a democracy.) As the base oc entities grows larger and larger that must be represented, even the republic tends toward unworkability. Given advances in technology it might be able to make it work on a planetary scale. Maybe.
    Allowing non citizens to vote is the quickest way to devolve a society into anarchy or mob rule. If anyone is allowed to vote, the largest give0away wins.
    //////////////////////witness the European Union. it is starting to falter and fail after a very short time because of sovereignty issues and immigration. imagine if 1/2 the world is a republic and the other half is a despotic society. the immigration problem would be unmanageable.
    Just some idle thought for your consideration and contemplation as to the proper way forward.
    +1
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    • Posted by Eyecu2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      While I agree with you. I like to think that some time in the far future things will work out for a global republic (hopefully based on something very similar to the Original American Constitution), but I do not expect it within mine or even my grandchildren's lifetimes.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        For that to happen: 1 Everyone must be Consciously connected to their minds and their conscience. 2 Everyone on the planet must respect the property of others, the basic unit of which is the individual.
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        • Posted by Eyecu2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          Not certain that everyone would be necessary though I would agree that it would REQUIRE the vast majority.

          It's a dream for the future and as I said likely not achievable even in my grandchildren's lifetime.
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            If history be viewed in evolutionary terms, one can see the evolution of thought and behavior. As bad as things are today...they were much worse for everyone in the past...it just keeps getting better, abet, via cycles of turmoil that have to be endured.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    The problem with migrants/invaders is that people like to revert to the familiar, even when what they are familiar with is very unpleasant. Even the mentally ill resist change for the better, because it's unfamiliar territory. In our neck of the woods, we get very nervous when we hear Californians are moving here because they don't like the tax burden. Even though you can talk to them about why things went bad where they came from, they can't help themselves and try hard to make the new place "evolve" into the hell hole they ran from, because they want to live in familiar circumstances.

    The immigrant who honestly wants things to change, and assimilates into the American culture is a rare breed. They have to withstand resistance from relatives who don't understand why change is necessary in order to succeed. They are often viewed as a traitor to their own culture, and can find themselves abandoned by friends and family. The legal immigrant American who succeeds has to fight battles that the native born don't.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    I can't add much to that except just think of the millions of Americans who are benefiting from living in the greatest civilization ever experienced are still willing to vote their way down the Venezuelan path.
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  • Posted by  $  Solver 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Lion and the lamb? The cat in the mouse? What about the spider and the fly? The wildebeest and the crocodile? Or the hyena and the zebra?

    All of life’s animals should lay down RIGHT NOW in the wonderful global Utopia of democratic fairness.
    /s
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    • Posted by  $  puzzlelady 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Here's the difference. Natural evolution has led to some critters devouring or enslaving other critters, the circle of life, for their own survival, right down to the size of wasps and spiders, ants and microbes. If we're lucky, the microbes that infest us will be helpful and symbiotic. The billions of lifeforms on earth have an uncomfortable ecological equilibrium of predators and prey. Everything has to eat, only not its own kind. When their supply runs out, they die out or adapt to a new form of energy. Evolution is opportunistic.

      What does not work is for a species to feed off its own kind. Direct cannibalism is seldom practiced any more among humans, but every other kind of mutual destruction and exploitation is rampant. The ancient formula against stealing, killing, coveting has been rationalized away. That some segments of populations dominate other segments, by force or deceit, is the standard practice world-wide. "Kin survival" is part of our software, and a glitch in the program no longer knows how to sort out what is kin: human vs. animal variant, and human vs. tribal variant. The program's prime directive was to prevent mating with other species, and it has extended to splintering humans into “us” vs. “them” on grounds of shape and color, and ideas and beliefs. These programs run deep; those memes have taken on a life of their own, like the microbe in the brain of the ant it controls for its own life cycle, and in humans they even obliterate what may at one time have been a valuable function, namely the power of reason and abstract thought (sometimes called free will). Instead, an emotional app is running reactions, decisions, attitudes, preferences… and global politics and policies.

      I can only wonder whether the human race still has a critical mass of objective, rational, mental reserves in stock to reprogram itself. The resort to notions of altruism is a desperate attempt to detour from mutual destruction, while our predator memes are wrangling to convert the willing into their new prey.
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      • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        Excellent observations ;^)
        Objective thinkers really need a new frontier, one that is too dangerous for looters/predators to take the risks, since there are plenty of prey available on low-risk terra.
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  • Posted by  $  jlc 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    We should not want nor seek a single global democracy. Were we to obtain that, there would be no recourse in case of tyranny or even just dissent. The reason that Europe progressed to technology before China was because it was broken up into warring kingdoms that competed against each other.

    The nnly point at which we should seek a global government is after we have colonized other planets.

    Jan
    PS I was disappointed in this topic, because I thought that it was going to be about Martians and Membari at the voting booths.- 'freedom' - what were you thinking of! ;>)
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    • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Sorry for the misdirection, Jan;^)
      I agree with you on world government. Competition is what creates a better universe. When I think of a single government for the world, I am reminded of the Star Wars scenes of the senate being manipulated by the soon-to-be emperor.
      I don't want my liberty stolen by a misguided Jar Jar Binks either.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Globalist political leaders want to be among an elite ruling class who wants nothing to do with a democracy.
    Ever hear of a "People's Republic?" It is not the people who are in power. It's not even remotely like the Republic we would be flushing down the toilet along with The United States Constitution.
    But, hey, man! We're a free people! Let's all thrust a fist salute high into the air and give a mighty happy shout of "Power to the people!" and lock step march singing and cheering as we let ourselves be led into a Brave New Utopian World of socialist slavery.
    (Just practicing for the next person who wants to tell me dino how wonderful socialism and/or globalism is). .
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    True; but I wish people would stop pushing that word "democracy". I don't believe in democracy, I believe in a Constitutional republic, where individual rights are guaranteed, and not subject to a vote. By the way, Peikoff once said that even if there were a perfect world-wide utopia, if it ever were to "go bad", there would be no place else on earth to go.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    The paper I wrote back in High School I still stand by today. US annexation of Mexico, Central America all though So. America would be too big to swallow. Seeing the huge influx of migrants to our country because of poverty, cartel violence and weak or corrupt governments convince me that it could have worked.
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  • Posted by DennisKebrdle 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    not only no concept of democracy--image a world wide republic where a billion Chinese have the same senate reps as Albania????????? lets save our home towns--and be great neighbors. all fine--but--if you kill 10 of us, we kill 10,000 of the attackers -- so be able to live together in peace!!
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    News flash the USA is already socialist ruled by two dictators called Republican and Democrat political party. A much too regulated market and the few shreds of the original Constitution keeps the place going.

    If the USA couldn't stay free and a Republic, there is no chance that a world government would work.

    The problem is consolidated power and influence. That's why President George Washington warned us not to allow Political parties.

    We might have a chance of getting the USA back if a Meeting of the states is called to Repeal and Replace Amendments to the Constitution that would bring it back to limiting the accumulation of Power as it was supposed to accomplish.
    Here is the full plan www.TheSocietyProject.org
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  • Posted by Lucky 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Governments of Europe's nations decided to join the European Common Market/ the European Union /the European Commission. There was even some amount of voting for that.
    It turns out that joining is not a good description, voluntary slavery is closer.

    Now, there is the European Commission, a government that cannot be voted out.

    It has the sole right to initiate legislation.
    It does not submit itself to elections.
    It is an appointed body of bureaucrats and failed national politicians.

    Neither national parliaments, British, French, or German or other, nor voters can reject or amend the Commission’s laws and regulations or a decision of the European court.

    European law is superior to what are still quaintly called “national laws.”

    Suggestion: It seems there is a sort of Laffer curve operating here. If there is no vote, then some kind of dictatorship. If 'too many' people vote on issues they have no interest in, and no concern for, then, the same.
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