When I think of “greed” I think of squirrels collecting nuts. They spend their time collecting and burying many times more then they could ever eat in a season. Many would call it excessive. Then during a harsh snowy winter it may be only the “greediest” squirrels that find enough stored nuts to survive.

Ayn Rand made an interesting point about fighting for the term selfishness instead of finding a new term: "I fight for the word 'selfishness' even though the word, as used colloquially, designates both criminals and Peter Keatings, on the one hand, and also productive industrialists and Howard Roarks, on the other. Here, there is an attempt to obliterate a legitimate concept -- selfishness -- and thus we should not give up the word. [The same is true for 'capitalism'].

"... [then she contrasts the distortions and past fighting for control of term liberal]...

"... When what is being disguised or destroyed is not exactly what you uphold, then drop the word and use another." -- AR, The Art of Nonfiction

"Greed is defined as "excessive desire for something of value."

"Excessive" by who's standard? Another package deal that implies "others" making a subjective judgement of 'how much'. I would define greed as "desire for the unearned.""

Good point.

AJ, that is one of the popular interpretations of "selfishness". However, Rand pointed out that the popular usage of the term had become an altruism infected 'package deal' that wiped out the word for "concern with one's own interests", bastardizing it with a negative moral judgement. Go back to the Introduction of VOS and see how she explained the concept of selfishness needed to be redeemed. Kudos to you for reading it.

Greed is defined as "excessive desire for something of value."

"Excessive" by who's standard? Another package deal that implies "others" making a subjective judgement of 'how much'. I would define greed as "desire for the unearned."

Thanks that makes sense.

Well AJ I'll leave at this - Ayn Rand thought selfishness was virtue and so do I. https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/44...

AJ; Here's something that might help.

Within the psychological description of selfishness are two concepts; the first is self interest, the second is self centeredness. In general self interest we think we've got a good handle on-being interested in one's own good. The second is where we seem to get confused, that being the taking form-I'm the only one that counts, etc.

Self Interest - allows others to have their own self interest. Self Centeredness - takes all to themselves and doesn't allow the sharing of the right.

IMHO everything that anything that everyone does is for self interest. I recently posted a similar question and can see now that I used the word selfish where I should have used self interest. I appreciate this post so that I could see my error.

nah, next on tap is For the new intellectual. I'll keep an eye out at Bookmans for Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal the next time I go.

To me selfishness is the act of satisfying oneself with or without reason to do so (eg. gluttony, greed, etc).

Self-interest, on the other hand, to me, is doing/saying things solely to satisfy things which are to your own benefit (you keep your $1 that the homeless guy asked for because you need it for yourself because you business is doing poorly and money is tight.).

I'm not sure there are things called greed or hubris. Both of those things are subjective to other people interpretation of your actions.

That sounds like a narcissist, not an objectivist.

Switch to Capitalism the Unknown Ideal.

AJ Selfishness taken too far is Greed or Hubris. There is no difference between Selfishness, love of self, and Self-Interest. It is splitting hairs needlessly to say so.

dave,
yes. how do you apply that to corporations then?

I am. Its just very slow going. So far nothing I read is revolutionary or has changed what I already have sorted out for my own personal philosophy.

I disagree. Selfishness can be taken too far (the self realizes this too late more times than not). Self-Interest is a much better descriptor for actions and decisions made based on love of self.

My 2 bits.

Self-interest is anything but irrational. Selfishness, however, can be seen, to me, as beyond rationality. Unless one can justify his/her actions to him/herself as things leading to his/her personal gratification (self-interest) then he/she is moving beyond rationality and entering the a$$hole/pariah zone (romantic potential = rose palm.). :)

Lets not forget that people are social creatures...how you project your self-interest directly correlates to how (and if) people interact with you.

"Does the "society" have rights separate from the individual?"
No. "society" is a label of a subjective collections of objectively real things (including many individuals)
So "society rights" can not exist since "society" is not even an objectively real thing.

A post (from the link above) by, Dave Bockman,
"Trees exist as discrete individual entities we conceptually label 'tree'. In other words, the human mind has objectively (through an objective standard, language) labeled an objectively real aggregation of atoms which exists in empirical reality. In the case of forests (or bushels, or bunches, or pods, or schools, or prides, or cultures, or societies, etc.) the human mind objectively (through an objective standard, language) labels a subjective collection of an objectively real aggregation of atoms which exists in empirical reality.
Is there anything wrong with objectively labeling a subjective collection of discrete individual entities such as a forest of trees, or a bushel of apples, or a class of people? No, not in and of itself-- in fact it's quite handy and useful in many instances in order to facilitate the transmission of ideas. ****** The problem is when people try to ascribe qualities to these subjective groupings which they simply cannot possess. "Society demands that we get tough on crime" is a typical example. Is that helpful?"
Dave 

Selfishness is love of self. When I do something good for my children, or favorite charity, I do so on my own authority needing no one's permission or sanction. This list is bullshit.

of course this is the anti-conceptual argument. Does the "society" have rights separate from the individual? Does the State have a will or rights of its own? Rand on point:
"Any group or “collective,” large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members. In a free society, the “rights” of any group are derived from the rights of its members through their voluntary, individual choice and contractual agreement, and are merely the application of these individual rights to a specific undertaking. Every legitimate group undertaking is based on the participants’ right of free association and free trade. (By “legitimate,” I mean: noncriminal and freely formed, that is, a group which no one was forced to join.)"-AR, Virtue of Selfishness. Here is the section on "Collectivized Rights."
http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas...

Most of these are about the opposite - irrational self-interest. Yet, it is still promoted as the ways to be really selfish. Which to them, seems to be things you do against your self-interest. CONTRADICTION!

Almost all of these fall under just being plain inconsiderate and rude...even dishonest (the dropped money, cutting in line)... Rational self interest is not what these are about.
Being rude and impolite is a lack of courtesy not a virtue.

Keep reading....

"I'd rather discuss the forest question."

Here is a good (old) discussion about the difference between labeling objectively real things vs labeling subjective collections of objectively real things,
https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/...