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Common Core

Posted by CarolSeer2014 9 years, 7 months ago to Education
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It's time to have the conversation about Common Core. What are your thoughts, Gulchers, about the innate evil in Common Core?


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  • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
    Hi Carol,
    Common Core is evil. I just recently 'retired" from an elementary school where I worked for the last 10 years, mostly because of Common Core. (Other factors being a gun free zone, and having to watch, and practically be forced to participate in socialist behaviors, which I refused to do loudly. And some major disappointment in realizing how UNeducated teachers can be.)
    With that said, I've read some interesting books on the subject: "Teaching Johnny to Think" Peikoff, "Credentialed to Destroy" Robin Eubanks (both I recommend). I've read some others that are escaping me at the moment, and many articles on the subject. (facebook page "Moms against Duncan" is also a good source of info.)
    There have many discussion about Common Core in the gulch as well.
    Common Core, although presented as a big positive in critical thinking and "career and college readiness" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean..."make you all sheep" would be more accurate) is nothing more than teaching NOT to think, be eternally confused about everything, and don't bother asking too many questions, stay in line and be the same as everyone in your group.
    Public schools be damned. Home school!
    What are your thoughts? :)
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    I believe a few history lessons are in order here. The education of children is THE first order of business of any totalitarian government or totalitarian government wanna-be. Part of the Common Core "standards" for third graders: government officials commands must be obeyed, and the wants of the individual are not important. 19th century European philosophy and 20th century European history. Need I say more?
    (See Hitler Youth, and compare to an American political scientist, James Q. Wilson, who believed that government shapes character.)
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    • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 7 months ago
      That's the result of ethics becoming external instead of internal.
      When what others think of you becomes your ethical standard, then who better than the government to hold the dangling carrot of approval?
      That's why rational self-interest is the apex of ethical behavior and competency is the highest form of morality. They don't require an approval rating.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      " Part of the Common Core "standards" for third graders: government officials commands must be obeyed, and the wants of the individual are not important."
      Is there a link to this?
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    Circuit Guy--it was in a Limbaugh Letter not too many months ago--better yet, google The Weatherman, Bill Ayers.
    At any rate, the morality of having a central government attach strings to any financial help for education institutions is an abomination!
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      "The Weatherman, Bill Ayers. At any rate, the morality of having a central government attach strings to any financial help for education institutions is an abomination!"
      I understand the second point, but I don't see what it has to do with the Weathermen.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    CG: If one your kids will be entering school this fall, I have only one thing to say to you: Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      "If one your kids will be entering school this fall, I have only one thing to say to you: Be afraid. Be very afraid."
      I'm naturally paranoid about very little peril with my kids. I'm trying NOT to be afraid. I won't be shocked if we have to pull them out. It only took 13 days last time. LOL But we loved the new pre-school. I really hope things continue to work out.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
        Just read this post. It's not easy to realize that yes, this country is now in a struggle, perhaps, of the individual vs. the collective. Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are not just something that might happen, they are what is beginning to happen, now. If we just close our eyes, we will never be able to prevent a Socialist America.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
          "Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are not just something that might happen, they are what is beginning to happen, now."
          Yes. We are at greater risk of this now than in the past for two reasons:
          1) Technology makes it easier for the gov't to spy on people. For example, the Fourth Amendment allows the gov't to follow people around in public spaces and watch them. But they can't afford to do that to everyone. Now they can b/c of technology.
          2) Automation is replacing many jobs, causing us to have economic growth but wage stagnation. The growth is in the form of return on equity. This will make people reach for socialistic solutions.
          OTOH, I'm optimistic that we'll get the benefits of technology and find ways to work through the pitfalls. I agree completely, though, that we must be vigilant. The material in Fountainhead and AS is more important than ever.
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          • Posted by LibertasAutLetum 9 years, 7 months ago
            "1) Technology makes it easier for the gov't to spy on people."
            Yes, but it also makes it easier for the people to "spy" on the government.
            "2) Automation is replacing many jobs..."
            Yes, but you would have carry that same sentiment all the back to when the "evil" printing press "stole" all the jobs from the scribes.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
              "Yes, but you would have carry that same sentiment all the back to when the "evil" printing press "stole" all the jobs from the scribes. "
              Yes. I intended to convey no sentiment at all about it. Machines doing work so people don't have to is a good thing. My point is a sudden appearance of a new kind of machine shakes things up and could cause people who ordinarily are not socialist to accept socialism. I want to get the benefits of new technology while avoiding socialism.

              "Technology makes it easier for the gov't to spy on people."
              Yes! And to share ideas with other people, not just ideas supported by large organizations and gov'ts.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 7 months ago
            I always found it disturbingly amusing that at a time when automation makes job skills most important (to elevate the population above the "unskilled labor" level first replaced by automation), our school system is designed to turn out the least educated.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    And don't forget that there is someone, or some agency, who is going to be in charge of determining just what standards are to taught. As I've said to Obama/Ovomit: Who died and made you the determinator of the greater good!
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    Let's Shrug: Bill Ayers, (formerly of the Weather Underground, and self-proclaimed "communist with a little c") has, from his ivory tower at some liberal college, Univ of Illinois, I believe, has had a great deal of influence on primary school education in America for the last several decades. He has also been an "influence horribilis"--my phrase--over B H Obama. All Gulchers would do well to google the Weatherman.
    Education over the past few decades has increasingly been geared to emphasizing conformity--a death knell for creativity and initiative.
    I am sorely afraid for the welfare of America if this monstrosity is allowed to take place. (Along with Obamacare).
    Rand said in her notes for "We The Living': America is the freeist country in the world. God forbid it should ever become socialist."

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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      "Education over the past few decades has increasingly been geared to emphasizing conformity--a death knell for creativity and initiative."
      I agree, and I think it's been for a century or more. The industrial revolution brought jobs that valued following instructions. Increasingly computers and robots can do almost any task that is just following instructions. The new jobs are about putting automation to work in creative ways that solve problems. We're still teaching to the old system.

      Even jobs weren't changing, we still wouldn't want to teach conformity. People absolutely need critical thinking to be good citizens.

      I have a feeling our kids will go through several school arrangements, possibly with some home schooling, before they go to college. I'm not even sure if college will exists as it does today in 13 years. I hope it's more of a partnership with apprenticeships where people learn practical skills on the job at the same time as they learn theory in the classroom.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
        We can discuss the industrial revolution and it's effect on quality of life another time. I graduated from high school and never felt that need to conform, or that my thoughts/wants were unimportant. That is something that has come about in the last few decades, with the onslaught of liberal/marxist thinking in our ivy league institutions of higher learning.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
          Teaching individual freedoms and the importance of it is not on the top of their lesson lists. Times have changed.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
            "Teaching individual freedoms and the importance of it is not on the top of their lesson lists"
            They ought to be on the top of the list, now more than ever.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
              Finally, he says something that makes sense!!! Watch for it CG, you won't find it in your kid's school..they might throw the word 'freedom' around when talking about America, but they will NOT elaborate or explain what freedom really is. They will say that Lincoln freed the slaves...again without going into what really started the civil war. They tend to leave out very important explanations and details, and they do it about all presidents...they were all perfect American loving saints who want you to be safe and happy and protected and free from worry. Government grants these things willy nilly. I'm so glad I'm done with public schools!
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              • Posted by Solver 9 years, 7 months ago
                Many experience, from one side or the other, the freedoms they offer - "The freedom to... "
                Such as the,
                Freedom to public education
                Freedom to food stamps
                Freedom to healthcare
                Freedom to low cost housing
                Freedom to unemployment wages
                Freedom to a minimum wage
                And many other of their expensive wasteful freedoms, that demand the involuntary servitude of others.
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                • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
                  Those are the "positive" freedoms, as opposed to the "negative" freedoms embodied in our bill of rights. The "positive" freedoms are the oppressive ones--the appeal to the baser drives/instincts/emotions of men. Look at how the welfare state has perpetuated and worsened poverty! People learn they are "entitled" and thus lose the pride they could otherwise have in giving value back when they receive value!
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                    Yes. And even if the policies worked and the programs helped people become self-sufficient and productive, they still would NOT be "freedoms" or "rights" by my definition of those words.
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
                      Sometimes, CG, you make sense. But whyever in the world would you want to meet BHO? He whines about how he wants to "help people"--can't you see right through that? His need for adulation coupled with his rigid idiotology has primed America for the first emperor/dictator/tyrant.
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                  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 7 months ago
                    Exactly! Yet, these are overwhelmingly the types "freedoms" promised in those long grandiose political speeches the wanting public seems to eat up with a vengeance. "Freedoms" which others must be compelled to deliver.
                    It all socially progresses toward, freedom to dependency.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                  Those aren't real freedoms or rights b/c they depend on the gov't or someone being willing and able to provide them. I can't stand it when people say "healthcare is a right." I don't oppose the idea of healthcare subsidies for the poor, but it depreciates rights when you hold it up as equal to the right to free speech, bear arms, face your accuser, etc.
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        • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 7 months ago
          Hi, Carol,
          I wish it were only in the ivy league schools. It is, unfortunately, much wider in educational institutions and much deeper in mass communications. We have a huge battle on our hands.
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          • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
            I've wondered about that. You must believe that we cannot just shrug. As Dante said: "The hottest fires of hell are reserved for those who remain neutral in times of moral crisis."
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            • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 7 months ago
              Hey! Another admirer of Dante.
              I want to be careful. My understanding is that AR envisioned her Gulch inhabitants as temporary absentees, who would return back to the country to restore and rebuild. They shrugged so as to hasten the collapse and therefore hasten the recovery
              My perception, and it might very well be unfair, is that at least some of the people who shrug now here, do it because they gave up. Of course, three will not be a real Atlantis, a copy of AR's imagined one. But there might be ways to fight the onslaught of moochers and parasites in such a way that they loose quicker than otherwise. It boils down, I think, of persuading minds. The most able ones first, but gradually many, many others.
              What do you think?
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              • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
                Perhaps you're right, Maritimus. Atlas shrugging is definitely a more severe disciplinary action than any regular union strike, since these are the prime movers of civilization. At times, the art of the deal presupposes the need to just turn your back and walk. Unfortunately, crony capitalism has taken such strong hold in our culture (and all in the name of "We're doing it for you!) that we now need to strike back, as well as shrug. Strike back with reason and morality. And action!
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
          "I graduated from high school and never felt that need to conform, or that my thoughts/wants were unimportant. "
          If I sense a need to conform, that's the single thing that would cause me to withdraw my kids from a school. It's right up there with ideology of any sort.

          I picked the preschool they're in now by asking them what they're opinions were on various things kids do. I was listening for ideology of any sort, not just political ideology, but ANY ideology, e.g. "kids must get outside at least once a day" or "kids must eat in a quiet space". We got burned by a school with strict ideology. I'm very happy they're in a non-ideological school now.
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          • Posted by khalling 9 years, 7 months ago
            Kids must eat in a quiet space? Lol. Well what do you know..most of us are screwed then.some of the Best philosophical discussions I 've had were conversations around the dinner table. Eating and discussing, making trades, asking questions is what life is all about. It 's how we socialize. What was that place your kids were in? Sounds cultish
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
              "Kids must eat in a quiet space? Lol. Well what do you know..most of us are screwed then. "
              That one school had a rule for everything, even trivial thing like which way to approach the lunch table. It would have been fine if it were one pet peeve, but they had a rule for everything. Many of them were trying to do the right thing. A few of them liked enforcing rules strictly for its own sake.
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              • Posted by khalling 9 years, 7 months ago
                I'm sticking with cult thinking. rules not founded on any objective basis and rule masters who relish compliance. I know parents like that. ugh
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                  It's Waldorf. You're not the first one to call it a cult. I don't know if it has to be. It seems like the philosophies could be applied in moderation, and it would not be cult-like. I just can't stand politics or package of unrelated ideas you're supposed to accept or reject as a group.

                  It's not as simple as the whole thing's a cult or rule masters. People get involved for different reasons. I agree with their discouraging screen time in small children and not exposing them to things without parental guidance. But exposing them to some corporate logos won't hurt them. Corporations are just a way to structure ownership with limited liability, not something inherently bad. They push plastic toys and unhealthful food b/c those are things kids *demand*. There's a reason why "plastics" was the word whispered in Dustin Hoffman's ear in the 70s. If you think plastics are an amazing technology as I do, though, you probably shouldn't be at Waldorf.
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                  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 7 months ago
                    never heard of Waldorf...well-I have heard of the salad ;)
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                      http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arch...
                      "Waldorf schools are popular with progressives. But how do you feel about a dose of spiritualism with your child's reading and math?

                      Would you send your kid to a school where faceless dolls and pine-cones are the toys of choice? A school where kids don't read proficiently until age 9 or 10 -- and where time spared goes to knitting and playing the recorder? A school where students sing hymns to "spirit" every day?"

                      What were we smoking? You see, I've been very wrong about schools before.
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                      • Posted by iroseland 9 years, 7 months ago
                        The very primary purpose of Waldorf schools was to make good factory workers. So, they teach them to work with their hands. A friend of mine thought she was giving her kid an advantage by sending him to a very pricy Montessori school. He reached an age where despite the schools best efforts he figured out that he didn't really need to study to be there. Eventually it was discovered that two years of Spanish class and he was still having trouble with the menu at Taco Bell. So, they moved him to a school that had standards and, as we all knew he was actually pretty capable. My dad went to a one room farm school. He turned out just fine.
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                        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                          "The very primary purpose of Waldorf schools was to make good factory workers"
                          A lot of schools seem to have this problem to some extent. None of the schools in my area are pricy. I think everything is under $12k/yr. The gov't schools cost taxpayers around $10k/yr. They're all in the same range.

                          I think the key is never to rely on a school to do all the education. I think we'll have more influence than a school. I know at a gov't school they're going to encounter gov't workers who laugh at the very notion of good citizenship. It's up to the parents to stay on top of things and not just turn them over to others, esp not gov't workers.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
            So they conform to no ideology. It's a free for all? Will they not March in a quiet line when they go down the hall? Or have food forced onto their lunch tray they have no intention of eating and it will end up in the garbage (tax dollars wasted with no one explaining any of it to them). Will they be put at a table with slow kids so he/she can become mini teacher to them so the teacher is able to manage her over sized class more easily or have time to deal with little Johnny' s meds? Did you ask any of those questions?
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
              We talked about all four (4) points, although we approached the forth one as a concern that they were focused on minimum standards and not able to focus on kids not at the minimum. Regarding special needs kids, one school we looked at (this one was public) bragged about their padded room for special needs kids. They carried on about it for a while, which was odd since our kids at present don't have special needs. The school we chose appears to have a balanced view of special needs kids.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
        CG--I just reread this post, and it set me wondering if you were exposed to some amount of liberal thought in your education.
        Also, I've wondered what it was about Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead that turned you toward Objectivism?
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
    Google Bill Ayers, Circuit Guy. He was instrumental in forming the 1960's organization The Weather Underground. After his girlfriend died in one of his "terrorist" plots, he graduated with a PhD in Elementary Education, where he has been very influential. He calls himself, still, a "communist with a little c". Google it.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      I know some of the basics, not much more than what you wrote. It still doesn't sound like a plot to me. I know many people with favorable views of communism and socialism; I avoid the topics b/c i know they won't change their minds on the spot. I certainly wouldn't want to ban them from working in education. I expect any school my kids go to, public or private, will have a fair number of people with leftwing political ideas just b/c of the politics of the area. I will object, though, if they carry on about politics, even subtly, in the classroom. We're trying to give kids facts, methods of getting facts, and frameworks for working with them-- I don't want anyone teaching them an ideology.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
        I'm not a conspiracy theorist, CG. But our institutions of higher learning have been the homeland of some very serious marxist theorists, who in some fashion have infiltrated education and the mainstream media to an extent not seen before in America. Wake up!
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
          We want our kids to exposed to all theories, even Marxist ones. It's funny to say they infiltrated school. Many of them are my neighbors. I have no expectation that they're not going to be around people who believe in Marxist theories. I'm okay with it as long as they're not pushy.
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          • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
            The schools that have been infiltrated are our ivy league institutions of higher learning. I hope they haven't gotten to primary and secondary schools yet. Common Core is, as I said, the death knell of truly free thought.
            I know most Gulchers welcome anyone to their blogs, even someone not quite objective!

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          • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
            I find nothing wrong with that, even if Marxism was a rational form of philosophy, instead of the ravings of a child who felt unable to compete.
            What bothers me is that in most schools only a form of Marxism will be taught--
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
              "instead of the ravings of a child who felt unable to compete.
              What bothers me is that in most schools only a form of Marxism will be taught-"
              If I see that, we may be suing yet another school. Actually, we'd probably just pull them out. And we're never handing a school $10k all at once again. We're learned to be skeptical.
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              • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
                Where did you go to school, CG?
                I can't get back to you til tomorrow, so economize on your thinking, as you are wont to do.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                  High school - International Baccalaureate
                  BS EE - U of FL
                  MS EE - USF
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                  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
                    I almost went into EE myself--UCD and Colorado School of Mines. Instead, I concentrated on math, physics, economics, and other sciences. Please open your mind to what's happening in this country.
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
                      "I concentrated on math, physics, economics, and other sciences"
                      I love those topics. I've thought of going back and taking another class on math or physics now that I have more practical context. I know many rules of thumb involving physics. If I learned Maxwell's equations, I'd understand them better this time b/c I have all these years of seeing the results in action.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 7 months ago
            Marxists cannot co-exist with other views any more so than Muslims can co-exist with other religions. Both have an either us or them approach; the other side is always the enemy that must be destroyed.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
              The problem is that for Socialism and Communism to work, everybody has to believe the same thing. But nobody does, that's why they won't work. I explained this to a young foreign exchange student from Vietnam whom I hosted in 2008, when she asked why the newspapers in her country were so biased towards communism.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 7 months ago
            "We want our kids to exposed to all theories,"

            When you taking your kids to a NAMBLA meeting so they're exposed to THOSE theories?
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  • Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 7 months ago
    Common Core is a disaster. The Federal Department of Education was started by Jimmy Carter with the same promise. The Feds just wanted to have common minimum standards. Sounded innocent enough. They have grown over the years to the point where little decision making is left at the local level. They are able to tie all mandates to the Federal money schools receive so they can't say no. Common Core starts off bad and will only get worse.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
      "The Feds just wanted to have common minimum standards. Sounded innocent enough."
      And they haven't accomplished what they set out to do. A high school diploma isn't associated with a clear set of skills and knowledge. I wouldn't mind Fed involvement in education if they had accomplished something. Instead of finding more ways to get people in to college, I think we should fix up the high schools and have some clear set of standards (maybe not federal standards) of what exactly a high school diploma means. People belittle the GED, but to me it means more than knowing someone has a high school diploma b/c I can look up exactly what test they passed to get it.
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      • Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 7 months ago
        My point is that the opposite has happened. Test scores are lowers despite standardized tests being made easier. Restore local control and do away with the Dept. Of Education. Save money and improve education...Win win.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
          "My point is that the opposite has happened. Test scores are lowers despite standardized tests being made easier. Restore local control and do away with the Dept. Of Education."
          Yes. The federal approach has not worked

          I think we should just provide vouchers for the poor to buy their own education. There are many problems with that approach, but it would end public debate over what type of education to buy. As I said in another thread, Waldorf is kind of weird, but there's no public debate over it. You just move your kids somewhere else. I would like that approach if it could be done without hurting the poor.
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          • Posted by UncommonSense 9 years, 7 months ago
            I'm going to comment here...though a bit late in the conversation...

            Getting parents to leave public school and DEMAND vouchers for charter schools is exactly what the communists want you to do: why?

            Charter schools aren't accountable to parents because there is no school board. Don't like what's being taught? (Yes, CC will be taught there too) Tough! Suck it plebe. Charter School's also don't have libraries. Why? Because it easier to control the subject material and keep those nosy parents from learning what's really going on behind our doors.

            THINK before you act. Remember what the communists fed the soft heads of impressionable Americans during the '50s & '60s: Don't go with the Establishment. Question authority. Seems like great advice in these days.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
        You're still expecting the gov to accomplish something other than stealing our money to redistribute down a black hole. When they finally do accomplish their goal you'll know because your kid will have just turned you into the authorities for being a bad citizen.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 7 months ago
    There is no escape from Common Core, short of your state throwing it out. Any school, homeschool or private will be held to Common Core testing.
    Yes, it appears Bill Ayers was involved. Ayers and Obama were part of the Annenberg Challenge for school reform in Chicago. Of course they were promoting Marxist ideas. When Common Core was rolled out, Ayers was one of the chief presenters at the event.
    Common Core is not about education, it is about transformation, of students into sheep, and about lowing the intelligence level to close the gap between third world students and the US, to please the UN. I guess the US' being 25th was not low enough for those in power. By removing parts of history, changing the Jewish history will not be noticed. It is like "1984", history will be what they want it to be. English is already mutilated in this country, but it will get far worse. Math teaching is absurd! Environmentalism will take center stage to set the students up for UN Agenda 21, which they will accept without question. They will learn private property rights are not sustainable, as the UN says. They will become the sheep, who will learn the jobs the government wants them to do. Sadly, now they are making inroads into dumbing down college as well. So we will have people with college degrees who are clueless - like a certain leader of this country. Atlas is shrugging.
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  • Posted by TheOldMan 9 years, 7 months ago
    One problem with Common Core is that it tries to tie together various subjects into projects. For example, instead of simply learning math, students must put together a project incorporating math topics with English or social studies and make a presentation to the class. While this probably would have been ok for my daughter, my sons want to learn math in math class, English in English class, and so on - one topic by one teacher. This is my biggest complaint about CC. I have never understood why k-12 could not just stay with what worked fine with me decades ago. The problem here is that people graduate with education degrees and want to show that they know better than what has worked for many decades. Rote learning of math facts (mult tables for example)? That's not fun, let's have students draw pictures of math facts so they can feel the concepts. Huh? You don't "feel" 9x7, you just know it. And you know it because you handwrote mult tables over and over again. Heck in my elem school, this was a punishment for misbehavior (I always had a few sheets stored up).

    As one commenter noted (and I have said this many times), as soon as the feds send tax dollars, they also send parasites to oversee. Why should some D.C. parasite be able to determine the school lunch menu for an elementary school in Wyoming? Eliminate the Fed Dept of Ed, a monumental failure whose rise matches the decline in student achievement. k-12 school control belongs with the school board. Yes, some boards will force Creationism over Darwin, Progressive dreams over reality-based truths, but that is up to the parents to resolve.
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  • Posted by RonC 9 years, 7 months ago
    Read the 10th amendment and point out to all where the Federal government fit into schools or many other things. It has been a power grab for progressives since Teddy Roosevelt.
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    • Posted by Solver 9 years, 7 months ago
      To them, the 10th amendment be damned! They have the "guns" and are experts at using them against innocent individuals. Very convincing. If big governments had a trade, it would be intimidation and coercion. These methods are common and very often well hidden in plain site. For the illusion of their freedom to be maintained, they require state trained children. For them, the ends justify the means. Individual rights and such just get in their way.
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      • Posted by RonC 9 years, 7 months ago
        We were vacationing in Cancun about 10 years ago. It was my first time out of the US. I was amazed at how rich the butter was and how vast the selection of food on the buffet. I watched them wrestle the "catch of the day" into the dock, clean it, fillet it, and prepare it for dinner. After a few days I realized in America we have the choice of the things the government allows us to have, and they tell us it's freedom. In Cancun we had the freedom to buy anything we desired. Unless you have experienced real freedom, you would not know the difference. This, I think, is how some reach the conclusion that anything is OK as long as we are kept safe. They don't see that people in prison are kept safe.
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  • Posted by Lysander 9 years, 7 months ago
    We have been told to follow the party-line or find new jobs. I am a teacher. Had to write my own textbooks to keep from using government -approved one. The Great Experiment is my txt. I was confronted by math and English department chairs and told to shut up against CC. Many parents were told. They don't know what their kids need to know.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    " For my part, it lasted about 6 months; for him, I believe he still thinks it's going on. Stalker mentality! "
    Wow. Thank you for sharing that.

    Did you have rightwing ideological opinions before meeting him? Or was his influence part of changing your ideological opinions?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      I read Ayn Rand ( and just about everything she had written up to then) when I was 15, in high school. Most of my friends were slightly more to the left--I was the sole intellectual.

      A book you should read is her "For the New Intellectual--the Philosophy of Ayn Rand." Taking from the particular to the general. That is, from the novelist's instantiation of her philosophy to the philosophy itself. You will get a taste of her Attila the Hun/Witchdoctor analogies.
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