The Problem I have With the Hamas/Israeli Conflict

Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 7 months ago to Politics
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Let me begin by saying I am fully sympathetic with Israel on this. That they have to inflict civilian casualties in their defense is tragic, but not worthy of condemnation.

I've frequently cited "Falkenberg's Legion", particularly the last two volumes "Go Tell the Spartans" and "Prince of Sparta".

In Prince of Sparta, the helot army (essentially a communist guerrilla army) has attacked the Stora mine and associated town. The mine has been made defensible already, with mine fields, bunkers, machine gun nests, just in case the helots attacked such a strategic place.

First they attack a nearby ranch, pulling out the quick-reaction force. Then they ambush that, calling out the back-up force. Then the main body attacks the town, looting it, and then begin the assault on the mine.
The mine was totally dependent on its computers, which the helots infiltrated, giving confusing and conflicting orders to the defensive positions, and turning off the mine fields. Major Barton of Falkenberg's Legion had been sent to Stora on an inspection tour, and had his people install direct controls when he saw how dependent on the computers they were. The mines went back on, and the helot attack was stalled.

So Skida Tibideau, the most evil antagonist in literature, ever, leader of the helot army, calls up the "Mjolnir", a sub-orbital earth-penetration rocket.
The mine has a central bunker, which served as a hospital and bomb shelter... and ammo dump.

Skilly gives the mine one chance to surrender; when they fail to do so, she orders the Mjolnir fired at the bunker. She rationalizes the attack by saying it's not her fault if they put their non-combatants above the ammo dump, a legitimate target.
700 children are killed.

So, it kind of puts a bad taste in my mouth when I hear about the Israelis, the good guys, being put in the ethical position of one of the few antagonists in literature I genuinely hate.

I often quote George Will, "Hitler used tanks to conquer France; we used tanks to liberate it. NOT the same thing".
The difference here is that the Israelis are inadvertently killing civilians to *stop* aggression against their people, that the opposition is intentionally placing civilians in harm's way, and that if the Israeli's refrain from this operation because it will cause civilian casualties... it will be Israel's own people who suffer casualties.

A somewhat subtle, but very significant difference. Or so I tell myself.

You can find the Falkenberg's Legion series of books on Amazon. I believe it is on the recommended reading list at the military academies along with Starship Troopers.


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  • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 7 months ago
    Hi H. It is Sunday afternoon when despite urgent projects buzzing around I take relief in the Gulch.
    In your post you have two themes-
    Gaza, and the fictional story Prince of Sparta of which I am ignorant.
    I just cannot see any purpose in making a link.
    For anyone with knowledge of the situation and background to what is happening in Gaza, it is as clear cut as any ethical decision can be. Nothing but condemnation for the Islamists is possible (to have any sympathy one would need to imagine those unfortunates with an inherited cruelty gene), and agreement with the Israelis in dealing with the face of evil.

    So apart from agreeing, why my comment? This is Sunday afternoon and so there is an irresistible opportunity to give a sermon and gratuitous advice. From previous postings, I surmise that you have two big needs- a woman to sort you out, soften you up, and give direction, cannot help here. The other is discipline in expression. To provide this I suggest a formal course of study, the topic is less important than choosing a subject and venue that can teach focus, cut out what is not needed however worthy in another context, and how to present findings without overloading the audience or putting them offside.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      The fictional story is a (granted, fictional) account of a similar dilemma, but faced by the bad guys rather than the good guys. Should they use their earth penetrator against a legitimate target, even though there are innocent civilians at that target?

      The helots claim to be fighting for freedom and equality for the poor, oppressed underclass (much like Hamas claims to be for the Gazans).


      The children being killed in Gaza don't stand a chance; they're brainwashed from birth in this insane hatred of the Israelis and I'm guessing Americans, before they are even able to think, and then they're stuck in that hellhole, made a hellhole by Hamas, and either forced or convinced to martyr themselves as human shields. The children I feel bad for. The rest... not so much.

      That's what bothers me about it. I remember reading the book being outraged (as the authors intended) at the "war crime". Murdering little (fictional) children.

      I guess what set me off was seeing where so many celebrities and talking heads were trying to justify Hamas's actions. Again, in the fictional story, the bad guys were acting, the good guys were reacting. They didn't have to launch the rocket in the story, even though it *was* against a legitimate target, but they would have lost the battle and possibly with it the war. The UN schools and other civilian structures housing rockets and hiding tunnels were also legitimate targets.

      The whole point I was trying to get at was how important the context is. The lack of context, and the wrong context, as reported in the media, did irreparable harm to the war effort during Vietnam. It crippled our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and burdened us with ridiculous rules of engagement that led us to where we are now.


      Why is it that so many people love to go for the cheap shot and tell a male "you need a female" whenever they either disagree or don't understand the point being made? Reminds me of the old movies where the old grandmother is constantly telling the young girls how they need a husband. In order to sort me out, soften me up and give direction, the woman herself would have to be sorted out, soft, and have direction, herself. Which leaves out most of the women I know.

      However, I'll take the rest of your advice. At least to the extent of proofreading twice before hitting the submit or cancel button.
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