Atlantis Locales

Posted by  $  johnrobert2 4 years, 8 months ago to Culture
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jbrenner made a suggestion of possibly an island near Australia. I looked at a couple of other locales for a few more choices. Here they are:
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Posted by $ johnrobert2 19 minutes ago
Tahiti group. Nice size, price unknown at this time. Looks pretty nice and completely undeveloped. Only drawback is leasehold status. Wonder if freehold could be negotiated?

Read more at http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/e8...
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Posted by $ johnrobert2 24 minutes ago
Here's an Aussie one. Couldn't find too many pix but looks interesting and the price is not forbidding.

Read more at http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/e8...
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Posted by $ johnrobert2 28 minutes ago
Another in the Fiji group. A hundred times smaller and costing a fourth of the first one. Less b4tb IMO

Read more at http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/e8...
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Posted by $ johnrobert2 45 minutes ago
Here is one in the Fiji group. A bit high but, Holy Crap!!, 10,000 acres. Lots of room for development. Some spectacular photos in this one.

Read more at http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/e8...


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  • Posted by  $  Susanne 4 years, 8 months ago
    Reality Check time, folks.

    One - people need to define exactly what one is "going galt" from, and why. It seems that people are all about living a less-restricted, freer life - then willing to look at places that are more restrictive than the US Mainland.

    I think we need to decide exactly how restricted we wish to be - no guns, criminal penalties for speaking out against the government,

    I keep seeing people mention this country or that - without realizing people are going Galt FROM those countries to here, because of the restrictions those countries place on them, or the absolute socialist nature of their dotgovs, or their tanking economy, or the rising tide of islamofascism at their door or the threat of conflict on their shores.

    Are you really serious? Fiji? Australia? Tahiti? Are we looking at a timeshare, or a viable place to live?

    Just saying... I'm reading a lot of pie in the sky, but not really hep on plunking down residency somewhere that would get me a lengthy prison sentence in a rathole and then deported (with my name on the "potential enemy combatant" list for leaving) for writing whats on my mind like we all do here.

    Maybe I'm wrong... maybe I am mising the rosy pie in the sky, no one will look at us illusion and want to cash in everything to move to New Zealand (who would then not want me because I don't have the requisite deposit to insure I'm not a drain on society)...

    Two - I also see something else here that is disturbing - the question keeps coming up "Who is Midas Mulligan"... which should be taken as a warning. A serious warning. IF we're unable to even finance the initial buy-in, and have the requisite capital to make this "start up business" work, what makes one think this venture would even survive the first year? I remember those 60's communes (I am that old) and they failed for much the same reasons I can see the Gulch tanking. Most everyone here has Champagne dreams and Caviar visions but has a Budweiser Budget, and even less resources. Who here owns a vehicle company? A Steel mill? A bank? Hell, I have a small business and can't give up my day job to make ends meet. What when you have a 10K a day ship to run to get stuff to you - NOT counting purchasing said stuff? Not counting building a power plant (no free power in this gulch) and having fresh water and 2 years to get food growing (ever do any food raising? Remember – it’s not up to “someone else” it’s all on YOUR shoulders, and a lot of people don’t realize that chickens don’t come from the Styrofoam and plastic wrap plant… And that someone has to raise, tend to, and plant that food – and take the hit when crops go bad, as they sometimes do.

    Sorry, but I need a reality check. Got half a million as a BUY IN and then do you have the other 2.5 Mil to build something and have a way to get food and water and power there? Hell, I cash EVERYTHING in I can barely make the quarter million someone else said here, then I'm done - flat broke bankrupt and BETTER have a welfare nanny state (or a rich daddy Midas) to take care of me. Eh? Can you pull capital out of the air? Can you produce from Nothing? I sure as hell can’t…

    To me, being a Producer means being able to make my own decisions and live somewhat independent of restrictions and regulations, to have a comfortable life and to not live hand to mouth and rely on someone else to make my way in life. That’s how I live now. Do I really want to trade that in for a timeshare that will put me and my family in the position of NEEDING to be a moocher because I sunk everything into the Gulch and have nothing left?
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    • Posted by dbhalling 4 years, 8 months ago
      You know I started talking about hiking the Appalachian Trail in high school, people were indulgent. They thought it was cute, but when I got to the specifics they said I would never do it. I kept talking about it for 7-8 years, when someone said let's do it next summer. We made some plans, but had to go back to college. I ordered books, starting making plans. My partner did almost nothing. My roommate in college was excited, but then said you'll never do it. One of my best friends had the chance to go bumming around Europe that summer and invited me. It was tempting and I wrote a letter to my hiking partner. He said he was still in, so I set my course for the Appalachian trail. My best engineering buddy had been in on all the most important conversations, but he had no interest until a month before we were ready to leave. Then he wanted in. My dad jumped in and helped me with the practical details - very little help from my hiking partners. A week before we left we were bombarded with stories about people who were killed on the trail. There were many problems getting to the trail and along the trail, but in the end I hiked the Appalachian trail for a month. I still torture my family and friends with stories from that adventure. Including K who was duly impressed as a college coed. I could tell you the same story about many of the things I have undertaken. It starts with a dream. You have to discuss the dream. My dream was to walk the entire Appalachian trail, but that could not be done in month. The reality was not exactly the same as the dream, but I did it
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      • Posted by  $  Susanne 4 years, 8 months ago
        Don't get me wrong... It was treasure mapping that got us our home and 11 hectares of olives in Umbria, our home and business here in ne cal, and the things we love... But I need to rain cognizant that doing the gulch is an expensive proposition, not just in $$ but in the things I love and enjoy - the forge and where it's going, staying active in competitive shooting, not having to rely on others... And having and building financial stability. I looked at living down under and it's restrictive as hell; a close friends family is
        from the Caribbean - Tahiti, Haiti, and Trinidad - and left over severe repression.

        I do have dreams and plans to see them to fruition, but I also will not go into bankruptcy for something that if I cannot afford I would do to be part of a crowd. It is a failing of mine, but at 6 decades I realize that I sometimes have to stand alone and speak my mind rather than be a sheep. I was a follower when I was a slimeball commie wannabee, and I regret that to this day I fell so low and sold out those I love...

        Hope you understand!

        S
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        • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
          Not a problem. Each of us must live within our comfort zone. Some folks is a little more expansive than others and I understand. I, too, am in my 6th decade, approaching my 7th and still get the itch to see what's over the next hill. Right now. there are things to which I am committed and cannot forsake but, circumstances my force me to change my mind. There is a story in my family of one of my uncles from my grandfather's first family who lived in Nashville AR, and worked at the local rail station. The story goes he had a wife with a sharp and biting tongue. One day, he went to work and never came home. Seems a boxcar with his name on it called out to him and he followed. He was recognized several years later in East TX when he stopped to cadge a meal and a hay bale bed. He was gone the next morning and never heard from again.
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          • Posted by  $  Susanne 4 years, 8 months ago
            You never know what in ones life will be the calling for them to "go Galt". I relate to this in a strange way - that "boxcar" for me was the Forge - gave up both the cool house in the Bay Area and the "power position" I held at Headquarters, cashed in the investments to buy what was a long-dormant shop in the middle of what even the locals call "the sticks", unhooked my cart from the liberal socialist connections I once cherished (yeech!) and lived for my own self, not for the "other man" (or woman!).

            People thought I must be off my rocker. I was warned of wildfires, bears and other wild animals, raving bands of rednecks, meth heads, religious fanatics, and cartel pot growers. I was giving up a sure thing and chance for advancement to do a minor job someplace where no one wanted to go... and of course, how would I survive up there, miles from the city and "civilization"... and starting my own business? Tales of gloom and doom and bankruptcy and no way I would make it work away from my "friends". One even had the audacity to declare that I must have taken some "bad acid"...

            Oooh yeah. That boxcar of ones fate has strange callings, but would I rather be where I was? Slaving for the good of others, draining my talent and my soul into the abyss of associates who not only didn't give a whit about me and mine, but about themselves as well...

            Yeah. I could have "all that" and end up a hollow shell. Or I could live for me, and my dreams, not their wants. So in a real way I relate to the uncle and his boxcar... he found his truth. And he found HIS Gulch.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 4 years, 8 months ago
      Well said. There IS more than one way to shrug. For some of us it's feeding the beast as little as possible, laying low, preparing, and finding and communicating with like minds. Anything more is a risk too big.
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    • Posted by conscious1978 4 years, 8 months ago
      Good points, Suzanne. +1. We may be getting the proverbial cart before the horse.

      If someone wants to start a commune or country club, fine...but, I don't see that as having anything to do with "Gulch" values.

      What we may need to be doing is figuring out what legal code we will abide and how best to implement it. Then, locations become more flexible. For any of us to invest assets, we would need to know the structure that protects our rights.
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      • Posted by  $  Susanne 4 years, 8 months ago
        When I saw people mention Australia and NZ (both countries I considered moving to years ago) I did the research - and while I love visiting there, I'm not sure I'd want to live under their system. I have too many friends who have emigrated from both places for these reasons - to here.

        There *are* a couple I have considered as well, but there are language barriers, and of course, you would still fall under that country's legal code, which to some could be pretty onerous.

        Besides - if everyone sinks everything into some relocation overseas... who's gonna stay here and fix the disaster we have right here at home... or afford to come back once we're at that point? (Darned if that doesn't sound like Scab Dagny, thinking about it...)

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        • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
          I bet your friends who moved to the US didn't come expecting the current environment.
          However, I do understand what you meant. The free market attitude that is still inside many people in the US (ignoring the bankster elite) is not ingrained in Aussies or Kiwis. The propaganda from the US looks so good, but the reality is not (any longer.) When the US dollar loses its world currency staus, there will be a lot of Aussies returning down under and a lot of US citizens will wish they could, too.
          I admit to being biased in favor of Oz (and to a lesser extent NZ.) Unlike their US cousins, the Aussie politicians haven't had a chance to piss me off completely yet. ;^) I suspect that regardless of where I go, the politicians and bureaucrats will be unsatisfactory.
          Significant advantages: English speaking, great climate, low population density, rich natural resources, good natural border defence, history of law and order, common ancestry and similar culture, self reliant in food production, managable debt.
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          • Posted by  $  Susanne 4 years, 8 months ago
            Well, they're trying mightily to piss their citizens off... they are passing a law that requires people to register *simulated* guns - Toys, replicas, even a bar of soap carved like a gun - and lock it up and treat it as if it were a real firearm. If it looks like or resembles any kind of firearm, it's covered under the legislation. Looks like it will pass...

            I am SO glad my folks didn't emigrate there when I was younger. Kicks down under right off my map. Only thing they need to add now is "People's republic of..." before the name.

            What is fascinating to me is, that with a few exceptions, I watch our freedoms being eroded, and its like the rest of the world has to play catch-up and erode THEIR people's rights even further.

            I'm closely watching Italy... if they go the way of Terra Australius Incomprehensabilis, I know a chunk of property there that will be going on the blocks. So far it's not... fingers definitely crossed there.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
    Not to minimize the efforts of others here, but in my opinion we should be looking not at remote islands unless we have unlimited funds as the cost of construction and operation in such a location is prohibitive. In addition, I think most people here (myself included) will be reluctant to relocate to (or even invest in) a wilderness, or a remote island without adequate facilities and access. Many will have families in the US that they will wish to see without an extensive, expensive, time consuming trip. An island is very attractive until the costs (monetary and other) are considered fully. For that reason, the sites I plan to look for will be closer and with much easier access to existing facilities. Of course, these places wil have their own set of challenges.
    One of the advantages of Rand's Gulch was its proximity to the civilization that it was striking against.
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    • Posted by khalling 4 years, 8 months ago
      there is not enough consideration being given to hiding in plain sight and remaining mobile. Ultimately, Gulchers have different goals for their gulch. I question the absolute need for a remote, infrastructure only for gulchers plan. I agree with your reasons. For my purposes, the ability to see and interact in a community some of the time would be great. Maybe some build of infrastructure, through necessity. BUt not a completely self-contained operation. I even imagine a way for people to travel to the gulch(es) by RV. Starting smaller may not be the perfect vision up front for those in the Gulch who like to think big, but it is a less risky way of cohesing (made that up ;)) and a way to plan. For instance, I live in latin America. More remote than a mainland, less remote than an island. Travel is for most people near a city a one stop flight. I am in a small town, where goods are relatively cheap, as is rent. Within close proximity, we could have people renting or RVing for a season. There is plenty of existing inventory to buy. ShruggininAregentina has blatantly asked gulchers to consider visiting him. Although the debt default makes Argentina less stable, he says goods are still readily available and he is fairly insulated from the currency shock they are experiencing. The US dollar goes much farther there than in the US. I like looking at options that gulchers have already visited and spent time in a location. The "forcefield" can be our mobility-trying out different spots until we find a good fit. That doesn't rule out islands, just not looking at buying one before we check out how committed everyone is. I just won't participate if it is in the US. But where I am, people chose it for the very reason it's easy to get back to the US if you need to.
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      • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
        Thanks, kh. I understand your thinking but I would like to have a place you can run to when TSHF. Being mobile is a plus in the sense you can keep a finger on the pulse of the general populace and keep the Gulch advised as to conditions here. Great thinking!!
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        • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
          Right now a permanent physical Gulch would be a place of last resort. We aren't to that point yet, but the timing of when things might turn that bad all depends on when China decides that the yuan should be the reserve currency instead of the dollar. Predicting the timing of that is anyone's guess.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
            "Right now a permanent physical Gulch would be a place of last resort. We aren't to that point yet, but the timing of when things might turn that bad all depends on when China decides that the yuan should be the reserve currency instead of the dollar"
            This is so much bigger than currency issues. right now the USD is the reserve currency. It won't be forever. This does not matter, except in trivial ways like making it harder for US to borrow, which is actually a good thing. UK used to be a major empire. Now it's not, and it doesn't matter all that much.
            The Gulch isn't a place of last resort. It's a place for people who see the amazing future ahead and want to play a role in it in a place where they're free to move fast and break things. Maybe (highly unlikely) they'll form a federation of colonies and form something new an amazing like the US Founders did. Maybe it will be something like a state but a non-state; something no one seriously thought of seriously realizing outside of ancient Greek theorists. In such a narrative, the US carries on as the UK did. The usual ups and downs of life and history carry on. Many places might model their Constitutions after the non-state that emerges in Atlantis. The Founders were part of something amazing.
            I'm **not** predicting this outcome, but some little sliver of it would be amazing... even a tiny sliver like a retirement home for intellectuals and incubator that gives birth to something like Twitter would be very cool.
            It's not a place of last resort. It's a place helping pull humankind into the future.
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            • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
              I would love for Atlantis to not be a place of last resort. Lots of people disagree with Robbie, but on one thing he is quite correct - people's tolerance for the current situation. Other than the Hallings and shruginargentina, I'm not seeing anyone who has left America because of all the constitutional trampling. Many will have family ties that keep them here. That is why the Rearden family component to AS was SO critical.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                "I'm not seeing anyone who has left America because of all the constitutional trampling."
                Exactly. I'm saying it takes more than that. It takes something positive happening in the enclave, not just dissatisfaction with one's own country.
                "Many will have family ties that keep them here. That is why the Rearden family component to AS was SO critical."
                If I had some of Rearden's family, that would be a family tie driving me to leave for some remote island. :)
                His wife kept saying all business is dirty business, which is part of dirty politics. She's a nasty villain, a master of politics. She's one step up from the sanctimonious little shrew who dolled out alms in the motor plant.
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        • Posted by khalling 4 years, 8 months ago
          I might do a little research on mobile gardening. Maybe trailers or large containers that can be tricked out.
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          • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
            You can turn a trailer into a greenhouse.
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            • Posted by khalling 4 years, 8 months ago
              You can, but not without that being pretty obvious. The question is, do you care what others see and unfortunately transporting plants can become problematic between certain regions depending where you are. I still like the mobility aspect and I think one good solution would be large plastic bags with flat bottoms made from or exactly the same as trash compactor bags. They are durable and excellent "containers for plants, which add little weight, making them easier to move. I have also seen laundry baskets used. they stack when not in use, and are just line with plastic as a container. Also light weight and easily moved for best exposure or transportation.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
        These are all powerful points. I echo what JohnRobert2 except for me it's the exact opposite of TSHF. I think it's should be a place to try to develop new technology, services, and ideas-- kind a of a zona franca (tax/duty free zone) of the world, and experiment to see what amazing things people can do in a new situation when left alone. I agree an 10 million dollar property in a remote place is not the starting place, although I encourage anyone who can raise the money to try. I think it should be closer to fixing up an old hotel and building a business incubator.
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      • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
        My wife and I have discussed RVing at some point. Some of the places we have considered along the Central American and South American coasts are quite close to the Pan American Highway.

        Quite a few of my past students are Argentine, and I like their people. Their currency, on the other hand, scares me more than the US's currency. It would take a currency collapse for me to leave the US. I am not going somewhere that the currency is substantially less reliable. In the interim, Khalling's plan of exploring multiple options over the next few years while we formulate requirements and evaluate options is a sound one.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 4 years, 8 months ago
        I agree more consideration to hiding in plain sight would be time well spent.

        Hiding in plain sight would be my preferred option, but I would prefer to do that in the states, where the terrain is more familiar as it were.

        I think subconsciously a lot of people might be equating "hiding in plain sight" to "sheltering in place" meaning not doing anything.

        A remote location does have its appeal.

        I'll lend a hand where I can with any option.
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    • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
      This is one of the reasons I have looked at The Bahamas, particularly the Abacos. They are close enough to mainland Florida that you can charter a direct flight with a private carrier from my local airport.
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    • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
      Based on my knowledge of location factor adjustments for petroleum refineries, I am estimating that location adjustment factors for Caribbean islands would be about three, with ones just off coasts of Central and South America being more like 2.5. Islands in the Pacific probably have a factor of 4-5. Australian islands probably have a cost of 2 adjustment.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
        Have you seen any method to factor for culture shock?
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        • Posted by Technocracy 4 years, 8 months ago
          Considering the culture has gotten so sick people are at the point of fleeing, the culture shock has already hit us....and not pleasantly.

          The shock to come from changing that, there is no logical method to factor for.

          You have to make your best guess and either shrug....or not.

          There are many reasons to not shrug, but ultimately we have to make the decision. And indecision turns into not in the end.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
            I certainly observe the results that you mention.
            I think many of us take for granted many of the conveniences that living in the US provides (as a result of the productivity of many.)
            If the gulch doesn't provide most of those conveniences we may not get long term gulchers that would be a real benefit to the community.
            I have learned over the past few years traveling overseas that many of the trappings of USA consumerism that have been purchased by multitudes are not required for my happiness, but modern sanitation, transportation, and indoor climate control (et al) are extremely desirable.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
    Another NZ property:
    1750 acres, price negotiable.
    http://www.nzfarms.co.nz/2290443

    North Island location, decent climate.
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    • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
      I'll check it out. Although the previous problem would still apply to me.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
        I agree, there will be disadvantages in all the locales. I also agree with something CG said "place to try to develop new technology, services, and ideas", and I think that is probably an undercurrent for many gulchers.We have to find an existing government that understands and appreciates what a gulch can offer in economic terms, since AFAIK we don't have the option of sovereignty at this point. (For example, Australia has a tax break for R & D. )
        In latin/central/south america and asia this 'process' usually includes relatively direct bribes. In western countries the bribery component is less obvious, and often more insidious and more expensive.
        (Not to sound too negative, I hope.)
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
          "we don't have the option of sovereignty at this point"
          I agree. I say pretend like there's nothing going on. I'm not saying to lie just to stay under the radar. When the next Facebook founded their goes public, let politicians in the host country take credit for all the "jobs the politicians created" (bite your tongue hard to avoid speaking) on a little island. Just as in the US half of them will scream at the other half that the politician was friggin' amazing or is about to destroy the entire world. The Gulch carries on and ignores it.
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        • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
          What a great analysis of the bribery/crony process!
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          • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 8 months ago
            When I visited Panama some years ago, I enjoyed a few meals with some expats there. One of them described the system something like this:
            In the US you have to be a millionaire at least to participate in the system of favortism. In Panama, almost anyone can afford it. It's "equal opportunity corruption."
            Unfortunately, I think that expat is now serving 20 years in federal prison, after being kidnapped by thugs (possibly Panama government authorized thugs) that were likely financally encouraged to 'extradite' the expat ignoring Panamanian legal process.
            Staying below the radar is vital, and as in AS looters rarely stay bought.
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  • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
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    • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
      $11.5 million for 1000 acres and 25 km of coastline.
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      • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
        That's ten thousand acres. (10,000) A LOT of land for the money. It is also a peninsula so has a land bridge.
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        • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
          I think I like this one a little better than the volcano, but the up front cost is pretty high. We would have to get a big commitment.
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          • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
            I think that the cost per acre is a big determinant. Almost everyone can afford a couple acres at that price. The remainder can be utilized for buildout, food production and small industry for export. Ten thousand acres of land in a temperate environment? Hoo boy, what an opportunity.
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            • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
              It is a terrific opportunity IF we can afford the upfront cost.
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              • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
                Who is Midas Mulligan?
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                  I know this is easy to write but very complicated to execute successfully, BUT could you do some sort of a Kickstarter campaign. If the plans were clear, people would pay for things like admission to conference for contributors with a few night's stay, having their name on a plaque outside the building, having the airstrip or first building named after them, a tee shirt or wrist band with the name of the new Gulch, access to a website for founders, etc.
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                  • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
                    I'll bet Scott could help with a Kickstarter if we approached him calmly, respectfully and with a damn good plan. I live near Dallas and could probably meet with him to make a presentation. I could also bring my engineering connection to the meeting to bolster some of the more esoteric points. How's that sound?
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                    • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
                      We could do a Kickstarter, but I want to see more interest around here before going to that.
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                        I agree with getting more interest. It doesn't have to be on this site even.
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                        • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
                          At this point, interest level for a physical Atlantis is not even close to where it needs to be to make it worth investing a lot more effort.
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                          • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
                            If we don't put in the effort, nothing will be accomplished and a great dream will go aglimmering. I, for one, am excited that such a thing could come to fruition and provide a welcome haven from the onrushing disaster. A lot here talk a good game, now it's time to start getting serious.
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                            • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                              "provide a welcome haven from the onrushing disaster."
                              I think we're approaching an onrush of amazing accomplishments, changes as big as the industrial revolution. The resulting wealth will hopefully propel people to new places, Gulches of sorts, where new ideas will come from new situations. My kids get a lecture when they complain about not having a certain video they want available on-demand on a phone. Their kids will have things way more amazing.

                              This is the watershed time when everyone started carrying a phone camera. Maybe in a few hundred years there'll be a turning point when aging is drastically reduced or cured, and changes of a plummeting death rate and birth rate ripple through the world.

                              So I want a Gulch for a different reason. I'm willing to put some very limited time and effort into it if I can help.
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                              • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
                                The next generation will not have it better than we do. The debt is just too staggering, and the lack of reward structure has tipped just a little too far.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                  If you had a 1000 middle-class people interested, the cost wouldn't be so bad. I think you should try to get many small investors rather than one large one. (I wouldn't turn away a large benefactor, of course, if one appeared.)
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                  • Posted by  $  4 years, 8 months ago
                    Could we find as many as 1000 on this site? Probably. But we have to add in the cost of developing the support structure. As jbrenner has pointed out, a lot us here are already retired, or close to it. I am retired but still active and could probably handle primitive conditions for awhile. Would probably do me some good. We could conceivably be able to support about 150- 250 in the first year under primitive conditions and more as the support structure builds out and more is available. That's why jbrenner is putting together the market survey to see what we, as group, could (would) feasibly support and act upon. Technocracy is helping with the basic parameters and I do research here and there. Patience is a virtue and I have not been known to be too virtuous. I'm ready to jump now. (Well, I can't really. My m-in-law is 104 and I am needed to help my wife with her care.)

                    Am I talking out of turn, jb?
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 8 months ago
                      I thought it was more of a thought experiment. I'm really impressed by any execution. I think many people will get more involved if they see the first steps happening. Of example, if you bought a purchase option that ties up a bit of land for six months and set up a non-profit to search for money to exercise the option, people would get excited.

                      Suggestions from me are a dime a dozen. Executing anything at all is harder.

                      If you do it near Florida or near WI and it has a hotel component, I will devote real effort to it.

                      The reason for the qualified support is it's so easy to say, "Oh yeah, count me in. I wanna help." But serving on any board takes real time, and that time competes with clients. It's easy to leave volunteer board/committee work hanging when a crisis on a paid project occurs. I never say yes unless I put the time on my calendar. If I volunteered on this, it would come out of my goofing-off-on-the-Gulch-website time.
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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am not an expert on this. I do know a decent amount on Alzheimer's disease's protein misfolding. I don't know much about Al's issues in particular, but I know that metal ions, particularly Zn, can cause protein folding when there otherwise not be any.
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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 8 months ago
    http://www.privateislandsonline.com/isla...

    600 acres on an island 1 km from the main Fijian island. Price unknown for now.

    Approximately 1 km off the Northern Coast of Viti Levu Fiji, Nananu-i-cake presents a very rare opportunity to purchase an exclusive freehold private island, with all facilities in place for immediate occupation. The property is an easy-to-manage turn-key operation with excellent infrastructure in place.

    Accommodations on the island include a 4 bedroom main house, 2 traditional Fiji guest Bures, and three staff houses. The main residence is complete with a large open plan living/dining room, library, barbecue/dining bure, and laundry facilities. These arrangements allow for 6 bedroom suites.

    Other amenities featured on the island consist in a swimming pool, 5 beaches, phone, internet, satellite, generators and TV connection, stables, a large deep water jetty, two 150,000 gallon water tanks filled from a natural water source, boats, jeeps, a tractor, other transport vehicles, tools and maintenance equipment.

    The area is developed with well defined road/trails for vehicles and horse trekking. Paddocks for horses and sheep are also available.

    Island management/maintenance staff are currently in place, and may be available to transfer with the property, if required.

    Renovations include: a re-roofing of the main house complex with bitumen tiles, recent refurnishing of the bathrooms, and an upgrading of the swimming pool.

    The property is decorated with extensively landscaped gardens that have been developed over a generation. Most of the island, however, still maintains its natural tropical vegetation, including groves of mango trees lining some of the trails, and pine forests for potential harvest.

    There is extensive potential for further development. .

    One can access the island by a leisurely drive of around 2 and a half hours from Nadi International Airport, or a drive of under 3 hours from Suva. It looks like the drive is only about 70 miles. I could drive my golf cart to the airport in that time. Speaking of which, a fleet of golf carts might be appropriate Atlantis transportation.

    This is one worth looking at. Probably my favorite so far, because of its base of operation.
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