Objectivists

Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago to Philosophy
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It is interesting to me how hard core Objectivists interact with me on this site (the only one that I participate in as the truly hard core Objectivist sites are so militant as to be irrational).

On the one hand, as one who has a foundation of Catholic faith, I am told that I must accept anything that comes out of Rome as an absolute - that I cannot use my own rationality to decide for myself "truth", and that religion isn't a menu that one can choose from.

And on the other hand, when I point out inconsistencies with Objectivism, I'm told that "AR said it, so it's truth" and those people refuse to use their own rational mind to evaluate things for themselves.

This seems to be a stark inconsistency and irrationality to me.


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  • -2
    Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you want to duel regarding definitions, I can provide counter examples to demonstrate my point - to whit:

    Philosophy: the study of ideas about knowledge, truth, the nature and meaning of life, etc.

    Religion: Religions attempt to answer basic questions intrinsic to the human condition - or more succinctly, the nature and meaning of life.
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  • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 11 months ago
    I thank Robbie53024, with whose opinions I often agree, for giving me another label I can use for myself, that of 'hard core Objectivist'.
    Other labels I enjoy using include 'bleeding heart libertarian', and 'extreme right wing fundamentalist iconoclast'. The label -starkly inconsistent and irrational, also appeals.
    Further, I have no intention of choosing between 'hard-core' and 'soft-core', until I change my mind.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Religion: |riˈlijən| noun
    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods:

    Philosophy: |fəˈläsəfē| noun
    the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, esp. when considered as an academic discipline. See also natural philosophy

    Apples and walnuts.
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  • Posted by Solver 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't see this as an Objectivist site. One can still learn about and integrate many ideas, including those of Ayn Rands, without being an Objectivist. I've read Anthem, Fountain head and Atlas Shrugged. But, I have not read any of Ayn Rand's philosophical books. I'm not an Objectivist and yet I learn quite a bit from this site. I don't even support all of Ayn Rand's ideas.

    On the other hand, I can see how anti-Objectivist, anti-Rand, anti-logicial or anti-reason people would be shunned.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You've made your case; it appears your beliefs are without error and only your logic is flawless. So, discussion isn't an option — all I can do is surrender.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, since he responds with comments that pertain to statements that I have made, I assume that he actually read the post. But you are right, I have no "objective" evidence that he has done so. Must just be my theistic interpretation of random postings. My bad.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not for an "echo chamber" because my philosophy has evolved over time.

    However, to answer your question, you will find this in the Gulch Code of Conduct:

    "Debate is fine, but remember this site is specifically for supporters of Ayn Rand's ideas. If you don't support Ayn Rand's ideas, you're in the wrong place."
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  • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why do you, and those like you, continue to insist this is an Objectivist site? I defy you to find a description by the site owners stating such.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're missing the whole point. This is an objectivist site, to promote Atlas Shrugged. This is not a bible study forum. We do not have the patience of Job in here for this. God be with you...Go in peace....whatever, just GO. Enough is enough....
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  • -1
    Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hence my statement "AR said it, so it's truth" (did I get the use of quotation marks correct this time, Shrug?).

    Quotation without analysis or interpretation is tantamount to citation of source documentation - or "AR said it, so it's truth."

    Following up with "and from that I determine...," or "what that means to me..." would be citation of a reference and analysis. Otherwise, as someone else said, this is merely an echo chamber, with no independent thought.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry Shrug for using a non-standard application of quotation marks that confused you. Where I studied English, ironic terms or phrases were to appear in quotation marks so as to indicate the irony when not so outrageous so as to be self-evident.

    http://www.quotationmarks.org/ironic-usa...

    AR might have been precise, but she was inconsistent with common usage definitions.

    The bible might be quoted "all over the place in here" (did I get the use of "quotation marks" correct here?), but not by me. I have used such on occasion, as have others. OK, that's a source document. The beliefs of AR on things like the definition of verbiage is not a source document, and thus is not something that is necessary to be quoted or regurgitated. She said what she said, that does not make it truth. Citing what she said is fine. Using it as proof of anything is not. I challenge you to cite an instance of where I (or others for that matter) have cited the Bible and said that just because it says it there, it is truth. I, for one, will use a Bible citation to get the statement correct, and them give my understanding/interpretation of what that passage means, at least to me. I don't think that I've ever made a Bible citation and said - "there, that's the truth." (again, did I get the use of quotation marks "correct?")

    As for "bible thumping" (use of quotation marks here is for a paraphrase of a statement you made but is not a direct quotation, again, a use of quotation marks that I was taught to indicate paraphrasing a reference to something said even though not precisely what another said - although I have since learned that such is not necessary - but old habits are difficult to break), I can't keep up on every post and comment in every thread, so I cannot speak to that. I can't remember in recent discussions such, but again, I can't speak for everything in the open side, and certainly not on the closed side.

    There might be some "thumpers" here (have I made my point yet about the quotation marks?), but I don't see them. Of course, I have different sensitivities about such things, so I might not be the best judge.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You quoted...as if someone said THOSE WORDS. That's what quotations are for, NOT for lame attempts at paraphrasing actual longer quotes used to explain reason. Did someone actually say "AR said it, so it's truth", or not?
    Ayn Rand was extremely precise in her definitions, so what's wrong with quoting her to make a point. The bible gets quoted all over the place in here I don't see you complaining about that?
    "Enslavement" to me... grow up.
    Why does the bible get thumped so much in here? And so insistently too. Speaking of intellectual honestly....
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  • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, but you are one of the culprits. Go back and look at your posts. You often respond with an AR quote.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you peruse the threads, I've asked various times about things and what is responded is nothing more than an AR quote. I could find them for you, but you're on here enough that you've seen them. I do not feel compelled to waste my time in enslavement to you, for something that if you are intellectually honest you can see for yourself.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We do not treat objectivism as a religion. That is a common misconception by religious people who cannot understand morality without religion...so they try to tie it up together as an alternative religion/cult. So go hold your religion higher if that makes you happy...but stop with the brow beating already. Get off my porch.
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