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  • Posted by iowachess 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    First the 14 doesn't "outlaw" slavery it only regulates it--thus prisons are legal!!! Second they are not working without pay that pay is only being held until money comes to the coffers of the govt. Your employer doesn't pay you hour by hour or minute by minute but every two weeks or month. Our pay (yes I am one of them) is only delayed!!!
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    • Posted by ewv 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. That is not "regulation". "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted..." Of course prisons are legal. Conviction for a crime is not slavery.

      The government has evaded the prohibition by redefining "involuntary servitude" as in military conscription accepted as constitutional.

      But government workers are not forced to work without pay even in the partial shut-down. They can resign at any time.
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    • Posted by term2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      A government shutdown should be a shutdown. No work and no pay for the time you didnt work. The government is like any other employer and should plan better so as to be fair to employees.
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    • Posted by  $  Thoritsu 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Agreed, however, I do wish the pay wasn't just deferred. Then we might see some savings vs a loss, and even more people wondering "Why not just leave it shut down" Shut it down for 4 months. we'll get rid of some government parasites (who earn an average of $89K), and cut expenditures.
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  • Posted by  $  gharkness 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Very simply, they are not working without pay. They will be paid. So, the question is moot from the beginning. Now I don't agree with all the grandstanding - and that really is all it is, but the fact is, the people who work will be paid.
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    • Posted by term2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      They are NOT working, so they shouldnt get paid for the time they didnt work. If they want retroactive pay, they should work during the shutdown, not just sit around and have vacation
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      • Posted by iowachess 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        The problem is they cannot go to work. We were told NOT to report to work!!! We were in effect locked out we are not on strike. I say build the wall!!
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        • Posted by term2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          Our government is just so inefficient and irrational that it’s lost my support. We need to eliminate “catch and release”, chain migration, and the crazy ide that setting foot on American soil effectively grants asylum, and the giving of welfare to “poor migrants”. The wall is needed to prevent welfare seeking migrants from getting on us soil- because if there stupid immigration laws.

          As to government workers- if you don’t work you don’t get paid, period. Time for government workers who don’t like it should quit. Getting free vacations with pay is not something I want to pay for. I usually don’t wish people to die, but I can make an exception for Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, chuck schumer, and Diane Feinstein.
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      • Posted by  $  gharkness 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        I specifically referred to people WHO ARE WORKING. Many of them are not getting paid (yet) and they do have to report to work. They will be paid.

        Perhaps you could address what I mentioned, instead of telling us what we already know.
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        • Posted by term2 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          Such is the life of people who work for thieves (the government). They deserve what they get and should quit if they want a more honest employment.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    What work? Who volunteered to contribute the funds to pay for services not requested?
    Why does a victim of robbery under threat of deadly force care if those making the threats are paid for the "work" of theft?
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    • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Arguably their "work" may not be essential as the government maintains, but were they asked to volunteer to continue whatever they do for delayed compensation? Even mafia thugs are paid. So my original question: is being forced to expend your labor for no compensation a definition of slavery as addressed by the XIII Amendment. or did just apply to blacks picking cotton in 1865?
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      • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        I am not at all concerned about assuring payment to looters. They have been stealing from those who produce ever since they agreed to accept stolen goods in payment.
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        • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          Sorry, my response was addled and not on point. I was trying to make an argument that there are some things like air traffic control that the governent does well and are necessary. I submit that air control is one such and we get value for value.
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        • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          OK, you got me there. But the actual producers must agree to being responsible for the quality and safety of their products and let the market decide if they succeed or fail. For example, if two aircraft collide its due to pilot error or equipment failure or poor maintenance, not lack of govermnent oversight, and some independent investigator must deterimine the cause and liability. Agreed?
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          • Posted by freedomforall 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            I do not understand your point of that example or how it is pertinent to whether looters should be paid by me for meddling in my affairs without my request. I would agree to pay them minimum wage to dig ditches for building the wall if that is the most economically viable way to accomplish the task, but without any guarantee of continued employment whatsoever.
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            • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
              I just wish Trump hadn't said he would accept the blame for the shut-down over funding the wall.
              Played right into the Dems hands. Sooner or later somebody has to blink.
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              • Posted by  $  Dobrien 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                Not a chance Trump played into their hands. He is proving many things to the sheeple . The Dems are frauds for example. The govt shutdown proves the bloat is unneeded. Trump will stand firm and the Dems will eventually cave. If not we all benefit from the looters locked out of the wheelhouse.
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          • Posted by MinorLiberator 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            And delayed is not "slavery"...I just started a brand new job. Won't get paid for two weeks. Am I a slave until then? I think not. As I chose this career, as did the Federal employees...knowing full well this could happen..
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    I think the ridiculous part of this is just what exactly is considered "essential" vs "non-essential" in terms of the shutdown. The hodge-podge is mind-boggling - as only politicians can contrive.
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  • Posted by chad 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    They will not only be paid even those who are considered non-essential and not working will be paid (wait, if they are non-essential why do we need them when the government isn't shut down??) The requirement to work for someone else is a requirement of the government everyday for every person when tax dollars support welfare recipients.
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    • Posted by ewv 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      You don't need the non-essential employees. But someone else's needs are deemed to require it. How they decide what to call "essential" is another question.
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    Are they actually working without pay, or just working so they will get same pay when government reopens. I have yet to see the ones who get this as a vacation, not be paid in full as if they had worked when the gov reopens. The newspaper I onc worked for, used to pay interns a couple weeks late all the time, as they were in financial difficulty. Life is not fair, but it is not eally slavery.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    I think the question has been answered well by others here, so I won't repeat the response. I will note, however, that John Stossel has a very good YouTube video that points out that the shutdown implies that private services would be better, and he has some good examples. Of course he's a Libertarian, favoring a much smaller government.
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  • Posted by MinorLiberator 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    IMO, as others have stated, no for government employees.

    I haven't read all comments, but most of those "essential" employees really aren't essential at all to valid State functions. My heart does not bleed for them.

    Plus, the foolproof Pelosi contraindicator tells me if she's "fighting" for them, they're not worth it. There is no there, there.

    The only at least partial "slaves" at the mercy of the State are the taxpayers.
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    • Posted by RevJay4 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      I agree. The "essential" employees are not really necessary in order for the state to function. And, my heart does not bleed for them. Did the fed employees hearts bleed for the coal miners as the 0zero administration attempted to kill the mining industry? I think not.
      Plus, Pelosi is not fighting for the employees of the state. She is fighting to keep the border open at the behest of her donors, who I imagine will take advantage of the illegals for the cheap labor. Once they are in the country, they will be granted the right to vote and the dims have a new voter base. Viola! dim power for a very long time.
      We, the true slaves, the taxpayer will pay for it all. Until we stop producing. Won't take long.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    What do they do if the essential employees quit and find a job that pays on time? I thought (could be wrong) the worse that would happen is they might lose their job. If so, that's not a case of slavery. It's the employer saying, "I can't make payroll now, but please stick with me. I'll get pay everyone what their owed soon" In this situation, employees often find jobs working for people who can pay. OTOH, if they trust the employer will pay or can't find a better job, they might stick it out. It's their choice.

    It seems like they should be liable to pay for all work done before the shutdown announced, if the employer is not bankrupt. The US gov't may be bankrupt one day if we keep on this path, but it's not bankrupt today.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      Agreed. Government workers affected by the shutdown - around 800,000 of the more than 2 million nationwide - are working for the promise of eventually being paid. Historically, that has included backpay and interest even for those who didn't actually work. So its actually a pretty sweet gig.

      Also, if you are a government worker and you aren't aware of the potential for your job to be laid off or shutdown at the whim of an elected official, you really should. I don't give them a pass on the sob story train. Unless it's Amtrak - then they deserve what they get.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        "I don't give them a pass on the sob story"
        I think the sob story is true in so far as if you live paycheck-to-paycheck, your life will be a series of financial crises. I have no disrespect for people who live paycheck-to-paycheck, but it would be wise for them to get out of that. Otherwise life will be a series of bona fide sob stories. If it's not their employer missing payroll it will be something else.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      They won’t quit. Most government employees are unemployable anywhere else. They have very limited skills and high expectations. Who would hire them?
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      • Posted by  $  blarman 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        True story: my brother once worked part time as an intern while working on an MBA for a local government institution. He said that it was common for him to get done in 12 hours (3 of his half-days) what it took the full-time employees a full 40-hour week to accomplish. He said that the other employees actually came to him and hinted that he really didn't need to go so fast and that it would be better off for everyone if he only completed about half of what he was given. My brother was very happy to quit that job and move on.
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  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    I seriously doubt Ms. AOC has a brain in her head. Did you notice she waves her hands like Pelosi? Mimic or that unpronounceable ailment caused by medication they might be taking?
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    It is not a federal crime as long as they are paid.
    Me dino heard on the news they will be fully compensated after the shutdown ends.
    Though this is a hardship that will probably run up many a credit card, these government workers will be paid.
    Every job I've ever had~and that's quite a few~I've always been paid on a bi-weekly basis AFTER I've done the work.
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    • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
      ...but Dino, were did you ever have to work on a promise of, "I can't pay you now, but don't worry I'll pay you later ...eventually.."
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
        That never happened to me dino.
        As long as these federal employees are paid for ALL the work they did at the stated end of the government shutdown, I can't see how that is a federal crime.
        A big time federal inconvenience, yes. A federal crime? No.
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        • Posted by  $  edweaver 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          It would be a crime for me to delay paying my employees so it should be for the federal government as well. Really they should all be layed off or paid if working.
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            As work forces go, there's the civilian way and the big government way.
            Reminds me of what I heard on Parris Island about the civilian way and the Marine Corps way.
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        • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
          but how can forcing people to work without pay for however long not be considered slavery? Did they ever agree to it? Were they even asked to volunteer? I'd consider shrugging.
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            Maybe at least some of them is trying to protect a pension.
            The pension I now enjoy retired is the only reason I stayed with the Alabama Department Of Corrections for 21 years while toward the end mandatory overtime increased more and more by the year.
            Working with officers worn down from lack of sleep is not a safe work environment bossing convicted felons.
            It would have been 25 years but I learned you how to buy years from the retirement board. It had something to do with covering for taxes, which I still don't really understand.
            I inherited some money and bought 4 years for just under $5,000. Me dino was glad to get away from that prison.
            Trouble is, I had to wait four years for the pension to kick in.
            So I became a security guard based on my corrections experience, Fully retired now at the age of 72.
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            • Posted by 5 months, 3 weeks ago
              Enjoy your well-earned retirement,ya big lizzard. I'm 87 and trying to flip the bird at the mortality tables.
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              • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                The average age of a corrections officer is 59 years and a coworker my age died of a heart attack during the nineties. I'm now remembering several faces who are taking dirt naps. The last I heard about collided with a drunk while driving to work on one of those winding country roads on the way to that prison.
                I was someone known for cracking jokes in the belly of that beast. Maybe that's conducive to beating the 59-year-old curse. .
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                • Posted by RevJay4 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                  Sense of humor is required in life, especially if ya work for the government.
                  I, too, worked for a state entity and my sense of humor allowed me to last as long as I did.
                  Until I bought myself out of the system due to military service and other factors. It was costly, in my opinion, but worth it.
                  Still working at 77, at civilian job, just to keep me from rotting away. Luv it.
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                  • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 3 weeks ago
                    Me dino is trying to write a novel. I enjoy that and messing around on this board, though I don't come here quite as much as I used to.
                    And I'm always reading a book about something.
                    And I watch at least two Netflix DVDs a week. .
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          • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 5 months, 3 weeks ago
            No one is being forced to work. They are free people and can find another job if they wish.

            What they are being told is if they wish to remain in their current job they will have to do it for deferred pay.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 5 months, 3 weeks ago
    So far as I know, those Federal emplyees are still free to quit. (Except maybe the ones in the military). So I don't think the "slavery" issue would apply to civilians.
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