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  • Posted by Herb7734 2 months, 1 week ago
    Perhaps a simplified version of the Constitution and Declaration should be published so that our under-educated citizens can more easily read and understand them.
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 2 months, 1 week ago
      Yes...seems we must spell it out for the constitutional lawyers TOO!...always with an alternative translation...especially for those on the left...no need to figure out what the meaning of "The" is
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  • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
    My whole life our society has been under attack from Russians and C{USA, mostly through stalth attempts to work from within the US, esp. schools. We have let our schools be place of indoctrination, until graduates can barely function. In the old days, a ninth grad education which is all some workers got, left them proficient in math. Not so today. Today, student sin high school are getting outside training to learn to have a conversation, to know you have to go to work every day, and on time! They are not getting this in government schools. They cannot understand the Bill of Right, cannot read "Atlas Shrugged", cannot even finish "1984". How can a society based on the Constitution endure with such ignorance, which was paid for by one of the highest per pupil spenind of any country!
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
      The home schooling movement. And perhaps, in some ways, gradually stripping public education of its power. Sometimes people propose year-round schooling. This, where it occurs, must be fought. And if someone accuses you of wanting to do away with public education, reply "D**** right! You bet I do!" If the person asks why, reply that school is not a police function, and does not protect man (includes woman and child) from the use of force or punish same; and, also, school teaches thought processes, and that should definitely not be controlled by the government. (This reply is to Stormi; I didn't get it into the right slot).
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      • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
        I spent time every week in the hallways, either tutoring, addressing bad teaching content, or as room mother. I was put on the Strategic Plan team to stop me from writing letters to the editor. I saw group hypnosis on 4th graders by teachers, Maslow group therapy on 5th graders (Maslow called it dangerous outside a therapist's office!), and one child in my child's class attempted suicide after a session. They were told there is no I in Team, much like rand's "Anthem. They were told there is no right and wrong. Then there was values clarification in health class. It just goes on. Academics was the least of their intent. They asked that 1/3 of one 3rd grade class be put on Ritalin. It was just awful, and it was all coming in after it had been fully implemented at Columbine, per Clinton WH.
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        • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
          Are you still there? Or did you leave, in order not to be a part of that horrible stuff? How frustrated you
          must have been. I remember in 8th grade, when I was sent to my guidance counselor (this was routine, I believe everybody was sent), who happened to also be my 8th grade math teacher, (the one who didn't want to clarify the processes about how to get an answer, and told me, "There are some things you have to take on faith")--she mentioned one possible career as schoolteacher. To me that would have amounted to collaboration with the enemy, and I replied, "I don't want to be a schoolteacher." At least she and I never discussed that notion again.
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          • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
            I stuck with it until our daughter was sent to a private university. But, they knew me well by then, at the gov school here. They tried the Delphi Technique on those of us on the Stat. Plan team, to try to break us. My "handler" had a nervous breakdown during the process, and another of our gang, had his two handlers, refusing to speak to each other. We knew our enemy and how Delphi worked. By high school, our daughter was doing her own subversion of the brainwashing. She now has two Masters and is a COO. They will have to take me kicking and screaming to the World Order and UN Agenda 21. I cannot just see evil, I am compelled to discredit it. The whole family is that way. Our daughter's eye were really opened to the agenda when she read "Anthem" by Rand at age 10. I had given it to her, no pressure, a few hourss later, she had read the 90 page novel and said, "Now I see what they are doing to us!"
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    • Posted by freedomforall 2 months, 1 week ago
      One of my friends (age 64) recently took a job as general manager of a company that is owned by a couple of 30 somethings. (one is quite brilliant in his expert area.) The company was a success until recently and they realized they needed a hand from someone with more experience.
      He has been giving the employees (all under 30s) plenty of chances to rehabilitate and become producers with work ethic. He has been setting an example, working 60+ hr weeks and constantly putting out fires created by the young and inexperienced. This week the hammer falls on the worst including a project manager who repeatedly misses deadlines and comes in late.
      This is a new definition for the term "generation gap". People now over 50 may have to work til 80 until the next generation (now pre-teens) matures and can take on productive work. The current generation has so little work ethic in spite of their so-called education (and related debt.)
      Obviously there are exceptions as there have been in every generation;^)
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      • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
        My husband, a CPA and Sr. Tax Analyst for an intl. corp. planned to retire at 70, having held out past the Obama attempts to destroy the economy, he is still working part-time at 76! They keep bringing in thee young folks, who either fall asleep at their desks or fail to show up for work. So, they keep asking my husband to continue in his semi-retirement three days a week job. Being a very Left brain, Type A personality, this new lack of work ethic makes me crazy. McD's here is always a mess, cars lined up around the building, but no adult mangers, just more of the same they hire who don't show up or quit after a week.
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        • Posted by  $  CaptainKirk 2 months, 1 week ago
          Don't get me started about the quality of service at McDonalds. There is a reason they are going to a higher wage. To attract people with a working brain. (Also, thank God they are putting in Kiosks)
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          • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
            We are a smal lOhio town, with one of the busiest McDs in the area. We have a road age situation as people sit in line for 20 minutes and have issues with pulling in front of those next in line. Kiosks, we have six of them, but then the person ha to get in line to pay with cash! If you go in after 8 p.m., the store is a disaster of full trash, tables not washed, junk on the floor. I chalk that up to teen managers who want to be one of the gang. If they didn't have the best coffee,with a senior deal, we'd be at Burger King, which is always clean and adult managers.
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            • Posted by  $  CaptainKirk 2 months, 1 week ago
              Well, I would take pictures, and find the OWNERS info (usually an 800 #), and I would call, and find out how you can email them the photos. Or text them the photos.
              I worked fast food (Heck, I've done everything), and the structure is usually that the owner lays out the money, and has to hire people to manage the stores. Once you buy in a second store, and usually a 3rd or 4th is now required to be successful. But that means it is not usually "Owner Operated", and there is usually a lot of trust going on.

              I really believe if you contacted the owner, and send the pictures... they would realize they have a problem.
              What is probably happening is that this store is posting excellent numbers DESPITE the bad service (and that has a way of changing), and when it changes... Things will suck. There is a McDonalds down the street from me that I have stopped going to 15 years ago. I wont set foot back in there. Same kind of stuff. Too close to the Express way, and it was dirty, overly busy, and disorganized with the worse help.

              Back then, they did not really post their phone numbers (or I missed them). And I have called a few places. they are happy to get the feedback, because THEY ARE NOT THERE. I hope this helps. If you can leverage the technology to make it take 2-3 minutes to let them know... you might be surprised...

              God Bless!
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              • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
                Oh, several of us have contacted the woner online, and he sends this super gal down who whips things intohshape for a few days, but shortly it is back to business as usual. We have gone this cycle multiple times. The owners has about a dozen stores now, and rarely comes into town.
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                • Posted by  $  CaptainKirk 2 months, 1 week ago
                  I would head over to Burger King (where I worked, actually), and talk to the manager. If they have room for you, and are willing to match the coffee price... it's worth considering.

                  Also, you might have to teach the people at BK how to make coffee. LOL
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        • Posted by Abaco 2 months, 1 week ago
          You can see things unraveling all around. In a building where I do some work there are 5 elevators. They don't work right. People get stuck in them all the time. Nothing gets fixed. Eventually, somebody will probably die in one. Most of the time, eateries screw up my order. Most things get messed up, forgotten...oopsy. It reminds me of what I saw in the Cuban influenced Miami 20 years ago. I'd watch construction workers just stagger around on the jobsite, no concern for the job at all.

          In my office, until recently, I was "the kid". I'm over 50...
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          • Posted by  $  Stormi 2 months, 1 week ago
            I can relate to those elevators, which I really avoid if possible. I used to have to cover Muni Court for the paper, which was one way up (elevator). It was so bad even the the Fire Chief got stuck in it for two ours! I have found that millennials have an inability to listen, and will space out when you order in a restaurant, leaving you to gt whatever they come up with. I have learned to watch the eye, and if they go blank, I stop the order until they check back in.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months, 1 week ago
    I wonder how many people understand the basic idea that their life is theirs and the state is something humans construct to ensure people to not hit or steal in various times: the age of The Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights 1689, The Declaration of Independence, or our modern times.

    It's not simple. There are people today who go to the financial aid office of a state college, borrow money with federal loans, and then complain later when the loans are hard to replay, "I did everything I was told." So we are far from some utopia of liberty. But I wonder how many people around the time of the Declaration of Independence would have felt like they had a duty follow their families' instructions, to provide care for ailing family members, to make up for original sin by submitting to God's will, to follow in their parents' career and life footsteps, and so on.

    It feels like on the balance liberty is on the rise, but I don't know of the facts agree with that. I suspect many of those people at cookouts who could not follow the language of the Declaration of Independence agree completely with its tenor.
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    • Posted by Abaco 2 months, 1 week ago
      "I wonder how many people understand the basic idea that their life is theirs and the state is something humans construct" - almost nobody. That's blasphemy.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months, 1 week ago
        "almost nobody [understands basic liberty]. That's blasphemy."
        Really? I see it in all places and walks of life within the US. I see it in Europe, but not nearly as strong. I've only traveled to a handful of countries, but America seems the best on the initial gut reaction to "I have a duty to follow my parents' wishes" or "We should strive to be like the saints who devoted themselves to God and helping others." There's more of an immediate "you don't have to put up with that BS if you don't want to" reaction than in other places.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 2 months, 1 week ago
          I agree with Abaco. You don't understand basic liberty either. You only understand the watered down, propagandized, enslaved liberty that remains today. Abaco means the liberty literally as described in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights as applied to all American human beings. Reduce government power to that overtly stated level and the result will likely be real liberty and free markets.
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    • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
      I do not know about "most people" (on Earth) but I do think that most Americans believe that they own their own lives and are morally free to do as they wish as long as they do not hurt others. But I also see in that that "most Americans" believe that the purpose of government is to control other people. A realistic "Pledge of Allegiance" would go, "I accept the govenment as a prevention against my own predatory nature; and I recognize that if not bound by the laws of society, I would be a danger to myself long before I could threaten others." Just sayin'...

      As for "most people" (on Earth), I know that I have cited "Success of the WEIRD People." Western Educated Industrialized Rational Democratic people are not natural. Ten teams of anthropologists went around the world and gave people some basic college psychology tests on physical perception (optical illusions) and social behavior. As dangerous as it is to try to generalize our Paleolithic past from today's so-called "primitives" the fact is that here and now today, some hunters wait until everyone is asleep before they come home so that they do not have to share while in another tribe hunters come home boasting of their kills so that other people become beholden to them for food. Our social norms of personal production and sharing by trade are special to us.

      I think that those social norms are at the room of our political rights, freedoms, and liberties.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 months, 1 week ago
        It sounds like you think people today accept gov't as a Leviathan to keep them safe from themselves and others. They are less concerned with the details of how that Leviathan works. Do you think that's more true today or in 1776?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Where is the reading level to understand the Declaration of Independence taught today? Who taught the teachers?
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    • Posted by  $  CaptainKirk 2 months, 1 week ago
      Here's a better question. Considering all the CRAP we had as REQUIRED reading.
      Why was the constitution NOT ONE of them. We had 1/2 a year in civics and it was mostly BS. A little bit about the bill of rights. AND how the Constitution was a LIVING document (Utter BS).
      The structure of local government.

      Nowadays, they don't even get that... BUT they DO REGISTER them to vote before they are 18 and enlist them as PRE voters. Automatically activating them when they turn 18.

      Now, that means, if you are here illegally, they handed you a form, you SIGNED while being BELOW the age of consent, that is NOT VERIFIED that you are a citizen, and they issue you a voter registration card AUTOMATICALLY.

      BTW, David Hogg even did this. And in August of 2017, he had his name removed from the voter rolls. I found that strange... Why? (It may have been his father is ex-FBI and just cleaned it up, but I found the timing suspicious)
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 2 months, 2 weeks ago
      Woodie wilson's, stalin like useful idiots with the help of revised history creating useless idiots.
      To be fair, Many teachers I have talked to these days say they are forbidden from speaking of such things and they don't like it...but they do manage to encourage their students to read it and ask questions.

      Accurate history is necessary to understand the sentiments behind the Declaration but it certainly doesn't require an undergraduate degree to understand it nor to read it.

      One might say, there are many parallels experience these days with our current government.
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      • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
        Well, honestly, it does require a college education to understand the Declaration of Independence. Realize, of course, that it took Einstein and Planck to create the physics that we teach to children as algebra or just ideas. So, yes, in 9th grade or earlier, you can start teaching the the D of I.

        That said, if you had to read such a document cold, not knowing it in advance, it would take a lot of learning to get it the first time. Aside from the ideas presented, the sentences are long and complicated.

        That is just one reason why it is such a tribute to the people of the time. When they said that a commoner was "literate" they meant something in excess of what we understand by "educated."
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        • Posted by Solver 2 months, 1 week ago
          Having a dictionary that is at least a hundred years old helps also. The meaning of many words have changed. Some radically!
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          • Posted by  $  2 months, 1 week ago
            I have a reprint of Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language from the Foundation for American Christian Education. I bought it about 20 years ago with egold that I earned writing content for a libertarian website.
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        • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 2 months, 1 week ago
          I see your point, one must be accustomed to the use of language at that time in history as well.

          I actually kind of fancy that use of language...it sometimes creeps into my writings. I had a lot of trouble with that writing my first book.

          Thanks to all the practice I get interacting with good writers here at the gulch.
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        • Posted by Lucky 2 months, 1 week ago
          Good point. The idea does not just apply to that Declaration. A good deal of government statements are difficult to understand not just because of complexity and vocabulary but due to bad writing. At the risk of being labeled a conservative, I see a trend of declining writing -and therefore also of reading- skills in business as well as government.
          Solution?
          Return to conventional education RRr, and efforts to write more clearly and when necessary more simply.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 2 months, 1 week ago
          While I agree with your comment in theory, I doubt the current "college education" is adequate to understand the Declaration of Independence, and any study of the Constitution is purposely biased to destroy any possibility of understanding.
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      • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
        I read it as a child. It was in the back of my 7th grade history book, which, with all its (pro-Confedercy) faults, did at least contain that. Also Jefferson's Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. But from the Declaration I got the phrase "unalienable rights" (or I may have read it as "inalienable", book's error or mine?), and when I would argue with people about rights, including my father, they often did not seem to understand that a right was natural, and existed whether the government recognized it or not.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 2 months, 1 week ago
    Despite the Congressional Dimm's having post-graduate degrees they don't understand the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution. They are not representing their constituency who may be smarter than they are. They are relying on the dumbed downed Millenials to keep them in office. I find it appalling that many who are interviewed on television have no knowledge of Civics, or how the three branches of government supposed to operate.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
    And yet, I believe the Enlightenment caused it. (the Revolution).
    Also, Jefferson was called the "Virginia Voltaire". (I
    think it was meant as an insult. But still, his writings were great).
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 1 week ago
    When I was in high school I felt the premise behind the American revolution needed to be understood, and investigated the writings of the Founders to determine where the ideas originated. They didn't just dream up the concept of America, they were well educated, drawing from the likes of Cicero, Montesquieu, Locke, Celtic and Iroquois governance principles, as well as the English documents and principles.

    After that, I carefully read both the Federalist and AntiFederalist papers to understand what the intent of each part of the Constitution was, from the viewpoint of the authors. The most telling point I got from the AntiFederalist was that the phrase "general welfare" would be a major source of governmental abuse, recognized even then.
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
      I have often wished they had never put it in. I view it as unfortunate; but I interpret "general welfare" to mean that if everybody is protected from crime, the people benefit generally.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 1 week ago
        The Federalist authors did indeed contend that was their intent, but the alternative, "general safety and security" was never adopted. The idea of a welfare state was foreign at the time, so as the AntiFederalist authors predicted, we have fallen victim to Leviathan, the giant nanny state that believes it should hug us to death and deprive us of individual liberty.
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        • Posted by LibertyBelle 2 months, 1 week ago
          Did anybody propose "general safety and security"as an alternative?
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 months, 1 week ago
            It's hard to find, but it was discussed and dismissed because the authors thought people would understand what they meant. We have somewhat the same problem with the 2nd amendment, where the original Pennsylvania text spelled out plainly it was to discourage a tyrannical government and for general self protection, but the convention adopted the abbreviated version under the assumption that people would surely understand its purpose.
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