my conflict with altruism and sanctity of life

Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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I had a little epiphany this morning. As many of you know, California is becoming a big Grapes of Wrath camp. Homeless are everywhere now. You can't escape them. Many of them are deranged for whatever reason. I'm a firm believer that, almost always, the big decisions you make in your life are what drive your direction and destination. I've worked so, so hard all my life. I'm doing ok because of it. I ain't that bright, but I've worked hard and managed to stay out of trouble.

In this growing mass of homeless I'm seeing more and more people who probably were just dealt a bad hand in life. Recently, when driving home, I saw a kid sleeping with his bike by the road. Kid appeared to be about 13. If I could have stopped, I probably would have. There's a young lady who I think is couch surfing in my neighborhood. She approached me in our grocery store parking lot begging the other night. Unlike your regular hobo she's beautiful, stunning actually. But, in our short chat I quickly picked up that she's got emotional problems - something going on upstairs that she needs help with. This this morning - I was getting gas in a Safeway parking lot by hobo central on my way to work. I was approached at the pump but a short, little woman who's eyes didn't look healthy, she was bald, and appeared to be hungry. I noticed as she walked away that she was wearing some sort of medical bracelet. On my way out I pulled up and handed her a little cash. I can read people pretty well - very well actually. And, I'm seeing more and more people who are destitute and in need of real help, as opposed to those who are just self-indulgent shlubs who make poor decisions. I'm finding that I can't help but feel real sadness for those have real struggles beyond their control. These are somebody's son or daughter, or mother, and this damned system that I pay tens of thousands of dollars into every year refuses to help them. I'm not altruistic, I don't think. But, I do struggle to turn my back on many of these people. I do wish they'd take all that wealth they're taking from me (the gov) and help these people. It's the love of life, I think, that makes me feel this way.

There's my Jack Handy Deep Thought for the day...


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  • Posted by red6rick 5 years, 9 months ago
    I will comment that giving money, as charity or otherwise, so long as it is voluntary isn't altruism but benevolence. This is a confusion among many, and is the source of many popular misconceptions about Objectivism and Ayn Rand.
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    • Posted by ewv 5 years, 9 months ago
      Altruism is not distinguished by not being 'voluntary'. It is an ethical theory embracing a duty to live for others. If you choose to do that 'voluntarily' -- as opposed to helping someone in particular you think deserves it, at a level you can afford and without sacrifice of yourself -- then you have chosen to accept altruism. Choosing altruism 'voluntarily' does not make you not an altruist. Voluntarily choosing altruism is not benevolence.

      Forced altruism politically imposed through various kinds of socialism from welfare statism to communism is the result of enough people choosing and accepting the ethics of altruism.
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      • Posted by bassboat 5 years, 9 months ago
        We as a nation used to be a benevolent nation when it came to taking care of the needy. Then came the government. The government decided to be the one to take care of people and involuntarily tax everyone. That has led us to the leeches today that scam the system. Free phone, food stamps galore, money for each baby, free healthcare and the list goes on and on. Stop all of this welfare in its tracks and turn it over to the private sector which is where it belongs. Many on welfare would find a job as a result and in the process become better citizens.
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        • Posted by ewv 5 years, 9 months ago
          The government did not "decide to be the one to take care of people and involuntarily tax everyone". Welfare statism and more extreme socialist policies were incrementally supported by the voters and have gradually accumulated, pushed by the establishment intellectuals beginning in the 19th century as collectivist ideas were imported from Europe, feeding on a false moral premise of altruism. They are still doing it. It was not a unilateral "decision" by government, most of which officials are long gone as generations have continued the trend.

          The trend won't be reversed until the the principles of reason, egoism, and individualism replace mysticism and other forms of irrationalism, altruism, and collectivism.
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    • Posted by cranedragon 5 years, 9 months ago
      Precisely. I get that all the time -- that Objectivists [usually just shortened to "Randites"] are heartless elitists who would kick people into the gutter. My wish is that we had systems, still, where you could rely on charities doing a good job of helping the deserving poor while leaving the undeserving to suffer the consequences of their [sometimes decades of] bad decisions. Help an innocent child, or his family fighting long odds and heavy expenses? Of course, if I can. Help the guy who's been a pack a day smoker since his teen years and is now sucking air from an oxygen tank? Not a high priority.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 8 months ago
    What a sad state of affairs for what was once the shining jewel called California.
    Of course it is the Venezuela of the states.
    The wealthy elites have no clue to the risks they face living in a collapsing society all by their making.
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  • Posted by chad 5 years, 9 months ago
    While there may be those who need assistance because they are not capable of caring for themselves a little cash never goes to changing their plight and might just sustain their choices. When I worked for Safeway in a small town sometimes people would come in and beg for food. We immediately handed them a broom and put them to work cleaning out the back room and removing trash. The employees would pool some resources and purchase food for them while they worked and give them a bag of groceries when they were done. Those who entered the store and stole and then said they needed food, we called the cops and had them arrested for shoplifting.
    I think it was John Stossel who once decided to do a show on those who beg and pretend they would work, they pulled up and offered them work for food. Very few took them up on the offer. They also followed them after their days work, some did go to nice little homes, they confronted them too. Most used the money for alcohol or drugs, few if any were actually trying to get somewhere or change their lives.
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  • Posted by BCRinFremont 5 years, 9 months ago
    A glib thought experiment...

    If you want more of something, supply resources and support for that something. If you want less of something, tax it and starve it of support and resources.

    Watch out for the feces and discarded needles while you walk in the places that want more of something.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 9 months ago
    I've read stories such as this in Alabama~
    A long-haired guy with a scraggly beard and a cardboard sign that says, "Will Work For Food" sits at the bottom of a ramp at an interstate day after day after day.
    Of course, almost everyone who takes pity on the dude just hands him some cash and receives a "God bless you.".
    As the sun goes down, a lady in a nice car picks him up and takes him somewhere.
    An onlooking stranger would think the bum is being taken somewhere to work for food.
    Those who live in the area have noticed it is the same lady in the same car every evening.
    It's his wife and/or girlfriend taking him and today's hefty cash haul to their nice home.
    So ends another day at "work."
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    • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 8 months ago
      That is common in my area as well. It seems the guys job is to relieve the guilt of the mark and it also allows them to virtue signal as an added bonus.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 8 months ago
        Five or so years ago I was coming out or Walmart and saw a pretty young lady pacing back and forth in the parking lot. I heard her say "Mama' a few times before she approached me, saying she was desperate due to forgetting her purse and needed gas money to drive to Pell City.
        Me the wonderful, beautiful and generous dino gave her $10. She thanked me profusely.
        The following week on the same day of the week (I used to go to Walmart on Thursday a lot) I saw the same young lady in the parking lot walking around all in a tizzy, saying "Mama" a lot.
        She actually approached me and told me about needing gas to get to Pell City.
        Me dino said, "Really? That's what you told me last week."
        Her eyes popped wide with terror and ran away as if a dinosaur was after her.
        I was already starting to walk with a limp. So I yelled, "That's right! Work the same lot, stupid!".
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  • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 9 months ago
    And the problems down there aren't going to get any better as long as the Democrats are in charge. Where you see actual, real-life human beings, they see pity-stories they can parley into votes and power.
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  • Posted by $ 5 years, 8 months ago
    Happened again in the parking lot of a different grocery store last night when I was with my son. This lady looked fine (in terms of chronic health issues), had a little extra fat on her frame, sores on her face (ala meth), was pretty well spoken. I didn't help.

    California, at least in my region, is sliding off the edge. Homeless are everywhere. Now, when I'm sitting at a stop light on my way to work I'll look at those walking on the sidewalks and, usually, a majority of them look homeless.
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    • Posted by Dobrien 5 years, 8 months ago
      Hi Abaco,
      The words you have written here and in past comments indicate you have a strong family ethic and a rational self motivated interest. Another plus is you like fishing. That all pretty bright to me.
      Being a father you do all you can to give your kids the tools to succeed . Cheers to you!

      There is an old corny saying " they tilted the country and all the fruits and nuts rolled to California" I witnessed the risk of living in California in the 2 years i lived in Huntington Beach and Dana Point.
      When my oldest son was born we left not wanting to raise our family there.
      It was one of the best decisions we made.
      Random crime back then was bad, now it must be a magnitude worse. Head to Lake Tahoe or other
      Area . The job market has never been better in my lifetime. Of course you will do what's best for your family but the desperate homeless situation sounds like it is a dangerous crisis for your community.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
    The fact that you worked hard puts a lie to the fact that you "Ain't that bright." It's weird how the brain works,I couldn't do a quadratic equation but I completely understand the principles of of quantum physics.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 5 years, 9 months ago
    I believe the government was helping many of these people, until some bright light decided to close down all the mental institutions.

    More prospective Liberal voters, I suppose...
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  • Posted by bobsprinkle 5 years, 9 months ago
    I believe yours was a well intended good deed. I trust she had a sincere need. But, if any of her "buddies" saw that she had cash, it could endanger her. I'm NOT blaming you for anything but good intentions. Just a sad sad situation.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 years, 9 months ago
    One of the memories I have from my all too long stay in the DC area was of a purported veteran at the Rosslyn metro station. He would shake his can and mutter "help a vet?" I noticed he seemed to do well with his collections, and was thinking about contributing, until I noticed the Rolex on his wrist.

    At one time, we had a culture that promoted helping each other voluntarily, instead of expecting the government to do it for us. Usually those more charitable times were related to churches and local parishioners. The Amish and Mennonites still behave that way, helping the "English" (members of other faiths or no faith) just as readily as they care for their own.

    I'm not a church member, but I do support the Salvation Army, mainly because nearly 90% of contributions go to the people they help. Government agencies and numerous other charities consume most of the contributions in overhead and administrative expense. In fact, by IRS rules, only 5% of contributions have to actually provide help in order for an organization to declare itself a charity.
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    • Posted by hattrup 5 years, 9 months ago
      I agree with your assessment of the Salvation Army. Also, many "charities" likely exist and are corrupted as a charity since their primary (unwritten) goal may be protection of their funds from taxation/theft.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 5 years, 9 months ago
    There are as many stories as there are people, so any generalization is suspect. However there are many people who are unable to care for themselves due to mental illness but not sufficiently dangerous to society to justify overriding their personal rights and caring for them against their will.

    I don't know the answer. But for many of them it isn't simply "use the government money to take care of them".
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      I understand. And, as I'm sure you'd guess, that wasn't my point. Always, my point is, "What in the hell are they doing with all that money they're taxing from me!?" Haha... In that regard...I'd do a lot more good with that money if I could keep it - for me and others. But, with a couple kids to raise I really don't consider myself as somebody with surplus to give. That's why taxes are given at the business end of a gun...I suppose.

      In my fishing and biking trips along our local river I've met people where were just "men of the road" and seemed content and fulfilled to just be traveling from one place to the next with a sleeping bag. In a strange way, I view those as success stories...
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      • Posted by preimert1 5 years, 9 months ago
        The Aussies even sing a song about it. "Once a jolly swagman sat besidea billabong. Under the shade of a coolibah tree. And he sang as he sat and he waited while his billy boiled. You'll come a waltzing matilda with me."
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