How Do They Get That Way?

Posted by Herb7734 2 months ago to Philosophy
72 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Have you ever asked yourself why liberals are so wrong minded, even when their beliefs are proven to be irrational and their philosophy demonstrably faulty?I have come to believe that it is built on self-hatred.Perhaps it was instilled in them by their parents, or by the many other soul-crushing events that can happen to a child as they grow into adulthood. some of you will understand because you have gone through it and have had the strength to overcome it and are quite pleased with yourselves.My Granddaughter recommended the poetry of W.H. Auden so, being a poetry lover I picked up a book of his poems.Now, you should understand she graduated from a state college, well known for its liberal attitude as most of them are.I didn't expect much elucidation from this famous ode-maker.I came across a poem called "In Praise Of Limestone"."I 'm a long way from being a shrink, but it brought back all the shrinkish stuff foisted on me during a great tragedy in my life. I've overcome being in a liberal family, in a liberal neighborhood, among liberal relatives which I managed to overcome as I struggled for rationality.Let me quote the part of the poem that got me started on this diatribe.
"I am the solitude that asks and promises nothing;That is how I shall set you free. There is no love;
There are only various envies, all of them sad."

The terrible lonliness of being with yourself.Boo-hoo. It is during the emotional 'teen years where this is particularly foisted onto persons, when they are flooded with hormones, and unidentified feelings. It's no wonder they are attracted to philosophies of emotion , where concern for their fellow man overrides concern for themselves. I have no degree in shrinkology, so you might say I'm merely prattling so much garbage. Maybe so, but that poem excerpt is typical of the left, justifying almost anything because it demands sacrifice, and the people have been conditioned to self-hatred. That's why such poetry is typical of the left. You won't find heroes in their literature, or positive aspirations in their fiction, That's why I don't read any "serious" books of fiction. Only thrillers, Where I can identify with the good guys and hate the bad guys.


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 months ago
    Those who can, seek freedom
    Those who can't, seek equality

    Those who can, have results
    Those who can't, have excuses
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      There are those who can dream and make the dreams come true. Not easy. Waving a wand is only the escape when working on the dream requires rest. Making the dream come true is often work, disappointment, little triumphs, big failures and finally, often unexpectedly, the dream grows like it was a newly fertilized plant. Nothing is easy, nothing is luck, Nothing is given. In the end, it belongs to the one who sweated blood for it, and it doesn't belong to anyone else. Ever. Try to take it away and a fight unto death will ensue.Those who have never experienced the dream cannot always imagine how much it means. It is creation. The creation of the only true creator on earth, .....Man.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  Stormi 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    Youth are not allow nor encouraged to find out how to be individuals. They are pushed into groups and organized activities from toddlerhood. They are fed depressing socialist collectivist ideas hours a day in gov. schools. If they like to be on their own, they are "loners", with labels. If you cannot feel comfortable alone, you will always be seeking a group, a herd of peers. In a way, I was lucky to have attended 12 schools in 12 years, and had a horse with whom I could ride the meadows. They did not have time to socialize me. I took Latin, so I was first introduced to Plato and Socrates, then Sartre and Rand. Kids today are not allowed any of these interests. They are not allowed to fail, to dream, to think. We all know how important Rand thought thinking was.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      All of your post is reflected in the public schools. Schools run by the government will obviously reflect the policies of the government, which have tended over the years to be increasingly socialistic.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Solver 2 months ago
    It’s all about agitating people’s emotions. When done effectively, reasoning slips.

    Take the fact that, it makes little sense stealing from all the smartest and most productive members of society so none of the children of the world will go hungry for the day.

    Most leftists would resentfully disagree, many labeling anyone who thought this way a beast or even a Nazi.

    When they have a losing argument, based on weak reason, evidence and logic, they appeal to emotion.

    It is a very effective strategy.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 months ago
      I've been dealing with it for 65 years. I'm either persistant or nuts.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by LibertyBelle 1 month, 3 weeks ago
        But it isn't only in politics. Authority figures who are unfit for their jobs (such as schoolteachers, when they can't explain the subject and answer the student's question), they get snotty, and start accusing the questioner; and I think they put emotion over reason.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          I think that the least they can do is make something up if they don't know the answer.Or if a student comes up with a better answer. Example: A "Social Studies" teacher (When I was in 11th grade) was asked to define socialism. She replied that it was an economic system that cut off the economic ladder at the bottom and the top. In other words, no poor and no rich.I knew that was wrong, but at the time I couldn't tell how. If I was the teacher and didn't know the answer, I'd make one up. Example: Socialism is a way of teaching people to be social. How to throw a good party. Knowing where to get beer kegs by underage 'teens, Etc..
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by LibertyBelle 1 month, 2 weeks ago
            I was trying to answer this the other day, but time was running short, and I kind of got cut off. In 8th grade math, when my answer was wrong, I wanted to explain how I got it, so as to know why it was wrong. (It is not that I ever believed that my answer was really right and hers wrong; I was trying to see what mistake I had made, so as to avoid making the same mistake again). I would have liked to go to the board and put my computation up there, so she could point to the mistake, and say, "Here's where you went off the track". But she never would let me. I could understand it if she had said, "We don't have time for that, too many people in the class," but that's not what she said. No, the old b* would interrupt and say, [given name], there are some things you have to take on faith." She also once said something like, "Just as you have faith that there's a good place and a bad place." I let her know that I didn't (at that time I was something of a deist). But the idea of taking something "on faith" in mathematics was especially outrageous to me. She accosted me once in the hallway (I think I was on the way to lunch, but maybe it was just class change), and told me that what got her was that I thought (or seemed to think) that I was right and she was wrong. I think that she was just a power-lusting old b who couldn't stand to be challenged or contradicted. And I believe that _that is perhaps the motivation of some people who become teachers.(And also, maybe some don't want to soil their dainty hands with [gasp] manual labor, but don't want to put out enough effort to, or don't have the intelligence, to become doctors,lawyers, or other scientists, so they take the easier route of becoming teachers.... (Putting such long phrases in italics was an accident).
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
          I started out my career as a teacher. But I found that administration hadn't a clue as to what goes on in a classroom. Children are as idividual as adults and cannot be kept to a schedule in the certain knowledge that they learned anything.And while I loved the kids, I didn't have the kind of nurturing patience that should be required in a primary school teacher.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    When you are endlessly told you are a helpless, innocent victim, even if you are materially well, it's easy to think that everything in life that doesn't turn out the way you want is the result of evildoers who don't want you to be happy.

    Our social justice system imbued in our education/brainwashing cabal tells the young that everyone is special, and has the right to have rewards for just existing. Any discussion of personal responsibility for one's own future is viewed as a personal attack.

    This creation of fragile beings who feel they must be protected from reality at all costs is a result of state control, and as the author cites, the breakdown of family bonds and guidance. The bizarre thing is that all of this anger springs not from the abjectly poor, who are consumed by the need to survive, but from a relatively well off segment of society that has been taught they are completely innocent of any bad things in the world, and that only the evil, cruel, and corrupt become wealthy and unjustly happy.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      It used to be an insult to be called a wimp. Now, I'm not so sure. It used to be women who were delicate creatures who fainted easily. When in was proven that it was actually the tight corsets that cut off oxygen to their lungs, another ploy was promulgated. In the case of the delicate creatures of the 21st century, I think it may be due to gross overuse of psycho docs, which seems to help justify every boogie man in the closet.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by shaifferg 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    I often told students that luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Trying to convince them preparation should come first for luck to happen.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      There were some very sharp minds behind the revolution putting together a set of rules for a government of, for, and by the people. Nothing else could have given us the freedom and prosperity we have. Not perfect. mostly because nothing is. But nothing is better even though, so far, no one has managed to create and enforce a pure capitalist economic system which is the only economic system that works with our Constitution.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by rtpetrick 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    Out of the night that covers me,
    Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

    Beyond this place of wrath and tears
    Looms but the Horror of the shade,
    And yet the menace of the years
    Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishments the scroll.
    I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul.

    William Ernest Henley
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    I think trump rallied the “deplorable” who were sick and tired of government control. Half of the people in the country plus most of the politicians are collectivists. We are headed for civil war and the breakup of the country into two parts-or- the USA will degenerate like venezuela
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      No one wants collectivism even if they were born into it.But alternatives are rarely offered as we can see in school and government.When I first read Rand I was transfixed, but I didn't know why. I had, all my life heard nothing but negatives about capitalism.So I started reading in order to figure out why I felt uplifted by Roark's speech. It was like being reborm..
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 1 month, 4 weeks ago
        I think the liberals really WANT the idea of socialism and being taken care of. Thats why they deny its failures, and always say it just wasnt done right. They cant admit that they are on their own in this world, and subscribe to the hope of "stronger together", and just deny that it has never, and in fact cant work
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
          You are correct, of course, I also get the impression that many feel that it's OK to have poorer service or product so long as it is provided at no cost or effort.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by term2 1 month, 4 weeks ago
            Perhaps the liberals just ignore the poorer service, just as they ignore the failures of socialism in general- in order to keep alive the hope that it "might" work if done better.

            Obamacare just needs "modification" and then it will work.......
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by Solver 1 month, 4 weeks ago
              To them, Obamacare is working. Just like all of these other social dependency programs are working. Of course with higher taxation they could be made to work “better.”
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by term2 1 month, 4 weeks ago
                Maybe they consider the higher premiums just a tax that the producers can afford
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
                  A common left procedure is to throw more money at something that doesn't work. As if money will fix it.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by term2 1 month, 4 weeks ago
                    maybe all its supposed to do is keep alive the possibility socialism can be made to work- in which case the continual application of money actually is effective
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
                      Effective in what way?
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by term2 1 month, 3 weeks ago
                        I meant that what they do preserves the illusiory hope that if only more money or effort were thrown at socialism/ it would finally succeed. They don’t want to think or do anything that would conclusively prove that collectivism in all its forms is just flawed at it core and cannot work
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                        • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
                          I have a car. It doesn't work. But a major component is missing, so the car won't run.I don't like the company that makes the component.So I give money to the mechanic to get the car to run without the component. The mechanic accepts the money, but he knows the car cannot run without the part that's missing..I doesn't matter how much money you give to the fixer, without that basic part the car will never run.But, the mechanic will never turn down your money. Believing in something won't make it so. It must prove to be right. By now, we have plenty of examples of Capitalism versus Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Ismism. Capitalism works, all the others don't..Basing a government on any system other than Capitalism is the definition of insanity ala Einstein.
                          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                          • Posted by term2 1 month, 3 weeks ago
                            That is true BUT, since the appeal of socialism is emotional, and the leftists can only accept what is emotionally appealing to them, they couldn’t accept your argument that socialism doesn’t work and dash the hope hope that socialism is just defunct. Therefore, they ignore your rational arguments and say socialism just wasn’t done right that time.
                            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Solver 1 month, 4 weeks ago
        Wow a born again objective thinker :)
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
          Oy! I gotta watch what I say around you people. Not a bad phrase though. a born again objectiviste, but in my I case, it happened like this: My mom told me I shouldn't see the movie "The Fountainhead" because I wouldn't understand it. But then, she also told me I wouldn't like roller coasters, and was she ever wrong. I saw the movie, then saw the book in a soft cover edition at the local drug store and bought it.You can fill in the blanks from there.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by GaryL 2 months ago
    "Have you ever asked yourself why liberals are so wrong minded?"
    NO! After 66 years of living and watching the socialists work their destructive plans it is no wonder we are in the shape we are in. As much as I do appreciate what Trump is attempting to do he is fighting a loosing battle even within his own party and those who are against him will be reelected anyway.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      A little too skeptical, Gary.If you're right, no point in this or anything else. I'm not quite there, yet.Even if there's no chance of winning, one should continue to fight the good fight until death do you part.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by GaryL 1 month, 4 weeks ago
        I am with you Herb but I am also right. Too bad I will be one of the fools reelecting the RINOs but only because I can't bare the thought of allowing a Dim to win. As long as we allow politicians to enjoy lifetime careers we will have power mongers in the game for their own self enrichment.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
          Somewhere along the road of history, we have lost the ability to tell right from wrong. The real from the phony. We have become shallow, so that the candidate with the best hair has the edge. In the last election, those in "fly-over" country hadn't lost their sense of values and changed parties because those values were only expressed by one candidate in plain, simple language without the need for interpretation.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Abaco 2 months ago
    Interesting.

    I have been friends with a few different liberals. Certainly...I always see a breakdown in logic. I always see deep emotion, too. Most of the time, there is a fixation on race.

    I saw the announcement yesterday by Bernie Sanders that he's running again(?) I really, really can't stand Bernie because he's an open Socialist. Socialism results in things like the Killing Fields, Auschwitz, etc. But, I know a very intelligent wife and mother friend who swears by Bernie. When I pointed out to her the atrocities that Bernie's policies have historically resulted in she just gives me a blank stare. How do you give a blank stare to that? Something's missing... I know, in her case, that she was raised by a liberal lesbian.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 months ago
      I'm told by my cousins, "Everyone should be treated 'fairly.'" When I said how about just leaving them alone to do what they want so long as no one is hurt?They looked at me as if I just grew horns.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Abaco 2 months ago
        Haha! Yep. Sounds about right. What a concept? - just leaving people alone. Why did that become so foreign?
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 2 months ago
          I have been saying the following for years, You don't need ten commandments. Just two rules, strictly obeyed. 1. The right to say NO to anything and anybody. 2. MYOB Mind Your Own Business..All the rest is merely decoration on those two.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LibertyBelle 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Ayn Rand wrote an article, "The Comprachicos", which was republished as a chapter in The New Left: the Anti-Industrial Revolution, which book I believe has been published yet again (with some additional chapters by other individuals), as The Return of the Primitive.
    Well anyway, "The Comprachicos" described the assault on children's minds in Progressive nursery schools. I never went to a nursery school myself; I also did not go to kindergarten. I started public school in the first grade; but was fortunate enough to have been previously taught phonics at home by my mother. Thus I came out of it able to reason all right.
    If children are kidnapped by the State, and taught that they cannot reason and the facts and everything else are to be determined by majority vote, you are going to have this kind of danger in the country.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    The key word in your question IMHO is "overcome".

    I people accept partisan politics is related to Moral Foundations Theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_f...
    I learned all this from the 2012 book The Righteous Mind.
    That book describes five moral foundations: Care, Fairness, Loyalty, Authority/Respect, and Sanctity/Purity. There is also a "liberty" foundation, that he presents as an exception, but to me it seems the closest thing to valid moral foundation.
    Haidt explains that liberals are mainly focused on Care and Fairness foundations, while conservatives tend to have a balance of all of them.
    What Haidt says rings true to me, BUT while I think these "foundations" made it possible for human kind to organize as groups, we do not have to be beholden to them. Haidt rightly says we start out with emotions based on these foundations, and then we post-hoc rationalize a reason-based argument to get to what our emotions tell us. I agree, BUT we can rise above that.

    It's hard to rise above, esp consistently, and therefore these emotions do drive us to different policy ideas and we (some of us more than others) post-hoc rationalize how logic and reason supposedly led us to those policies.

    The explanation that liberals/conservatives must be just stupid, psychologically damaged, or morally flawed and then patting myself on the back is pure empty calories, and I reject empty calories except for Taco Bell and Mountain Dew.

    You rightly talk about emotionalism being foisted on people at a young age. I think emotionalism and post hoc rationalization are the human default. We have to work to overcome them. It's like of like how religion sees the devil as constantly tempting us. Our nature to come up with narratives about how we and people in our group are the good guys is part of human nature. The foible got people to work together to build cities with people beyond their personal family, and now it's like a devil tempting us that must be resisted in favor of reason.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by shaifferg 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    If the goal is to regain control of the country from the socialists then check out Article five of the constitution and also The Convention of the States movement. We can fight back but will fail if we don't even try to move back to a constitutional form of government. I cringe every time I hear this country referred to as a democracy. Anyone ever heard of a Constitutional Replublic?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 1 month, 4 weeks ago
      Pretty much everyone of the members of this forum -- and a few newbies, I would say.This is not a new concept among the G.G. members.However there is a great misunderstanding among the great unwashed as the word democracy is bandied about as if people understand its meaning as it pertains to the USA.As Franklin said when a woman enquired what all they were doing "What have you given us, Mr. Franklin?" He replied "A Republic, if you can keep it, madam." But, because a degree of democracy i s used, people get confused, playing fast and loose with the word. It is a representative Democracy eith all kinds of restrictions but most of all a Republic where the democratic voting is done by certain elected officials to represent the people. Remember that the USA was totally new and the framers incorporated Bits and pieces of everything good that they saw in other governments a left out anything that smelled of a ruling class.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo