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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 9 months ago
    We thought we could civilize the knuckledraggers... win a war with ridiculous rules of engagement. War should not be entered into on a limited basis. Either go in full tilt and win decisive victory or stay out in the first place.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
      Exactly OA. At this point I don't know why we are there.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago
        $$$$$$$ energy. (It's idiocy, not rational.)
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        • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
          I remember reading a few years ago that there were large lithium deposits there. In a battery powered wold that is a lot of $$$$.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago
            If so, then trade something other than lives of soldiers for it. However, I think it has a strategic value relative to energy (or delivery thereof.)
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            • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
              Control the resources. I have wondered if our plan is to not use our oil reserves until we bleed the middle east dry. Be a great plan if any of these boneheads could think of it.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
                I remember back in the '70's when the first oil shock happened. I was listening to some of the scout leaders talk at camp. One of them said to the effect that he's happy to pay whatever it was at the time to keep our oil in the ground. At some point, the middle east will be out and then we will still have our reserves.

                I don't think that any of these politicians would be so strategic nor allow the benefit to the nation overrule their own political benefit (and definitely not the current crop). However, the greenies might just have done us a favor that they never intended. We just might end up in a situation where we do have the energy resources when others are running out. By then, we'll probably have other sources developed.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
      But that also means maintaining a force for stability. They wouldn't need to even do anything other than be there in a number sufficient to dissuade the terrorists from returning. Telling the terrorists that you're going to run home with your tail between your legs as the first thing said was idiotic foreign policy.
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      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 9 months ago
        Hello Robbie53024,
        I agree. History is a great teacher. The lessons of Japan, Germany, South Korea... how different they were handled and how different they turned out...
        Regards,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
          Absolutely. But it's far time that we extricate ourselves from most of those locales as they no longer need our stabilizing presence (not that the current regime gives them any stability - LOL).

          We probably could have reduced our force structure in Japan in the early '70's, and Germany in the early '90's. South Korea still needs our presence, as does the ME. And if we stationed an armored brigade with a Patriot battery in Israel, that might give other Arab nations some pause.

          Ah, if only I were SecDef.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
      Agreed. Moreover, the decision for any interaction with other countries or even people should be based on Star Trek's Prime Directive. Interference in the development of less civilized cultures, no matter how well intentioned, very rarely has good results. When people call me isolationist, I politely disagree and cite this part of the Prime Directive.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
        Since we're throwing around ST references, I see that you have 3 ways of interacting with another culture -

        Borg: Complete assimilation (this was the US model in the early 20th century).
        Tribble: Overwhelm by infiltration (this has been used during the later 20th century by Muslims in Europe, and now by central/south Am's to the US)
        Kahn: Frontal Attack.

        Once one culture encounters another, there will be interaction and interference. Just my humble opinion.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago
        I thoroughly and completely disagree with the Prime Directive.

        Should you refrain from building your Wal-mart across the street from Mom & Pop's General Store, simply because of the negative impact your "more civilized" culture will have on their "more primitive" culture? No, of course not.

        If you rephrase the Prime Directive to "no well-intentioned interference"... ie, you can interfere if you wish to do so to benefit yourself or your own society, but not to "help" the more primitive society.

        if the early U.S. had adopted the Prime Directive, we'd still be huddled on the Atlantic coast, and the most advanced technology might be steam power. Maybe.
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  • Posted by LibertasAutLetum 10 years, 9 months ago
    You cannot, under any circumstances whatsoever, trust any single one of those people.
    Get the hell out of there.
    Maybe keep a low profile intelligence network and a handful of assassins to do a little weeding but get everybody else the hell out of there.
    They will never be our friends. They will always want to kill us no what we give them or do for them.
    Just get the hell out and let them kill each other.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
      This began in earnest when O proclaimed that we were "getting out" - first Iraq then Afghan. Why would someone put themselves at risk by being seen to aid the infidel when the power vacuum will be filled by the extremists as soon as we depart - with a resulting cleansing of those who aided the infidels.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
      My university has an unusually high Muslim population for a US university - roughly 10%. I have exchanged value for value, and lived handsomely as a result. There are some whom I trust and many I don't. Though not my goal, I see the university system as our best chance for diplomacy.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago
    How to fight this new-old war, in one easy lesson:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZ6eaL3...

    Of course, that requires you to remember that we're Americans and F* THEM...
    I mean, we're Americans and they're not.

    if your wife or child were horribly murdered, would you want to run away, or kill the m-f who did it? Well, these are our countrymen. OURS. Our fathers, sons, brothers and sadly, daughters.

    War is not a civilized pursuit, and war with barbarians is never civilized.

    The platitude is ancient: "Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

    If you would have peace, be thou then prepared for war.

    If you would have peace, make an example of a belligerant.

    So to hell with those ignorant among you who advocate running away from a fight. Ball-less Bush chose nation-building and pretending Afghanistan is a 21st century version of Italy circa 1943. Soul-less Obama chooses emasculation of America and destruction of our carefully wrought empire, and along with it, safety, prosperity, and freedom for the world.

    Conquest is now the only answer. Take Afghanistan and hold it. And kill anybody who gets in the way. Now that we've lost Iraq, it'll be a harder, costlier fight. Don't blame me; look in the God-blessed mirror. The American body count would be high because of all you Americans who want to feel good and benevolent and morally superior to our enemies, rather than eliminating them.

    If we don't conquer the middle east, the American experiment is over. Orwell's boot will be mashing the human face forever, and that boot will shod a Moslem foot. Or a communist foot. Which it will be won't be our concern any longer, it'll be between the two of them.

    God, it makes me so mad. I tried to tell you people a decade ago... nobody listened then, nobody will listen now. I'll go on being Cassandra, always right, always ignored.

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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago
    Carpet bomb the area.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago
      More advanced weaponry is required than that (assuming the action is actually rational.)
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 9 months ago
        Depends on what you carpet bomb it with.

        Rational is going to lose the war.

        When will people get it? We are not fighting MIT professors. We are not fighting marine biologists. We are fighting MEN. Undomesticated homo sapiens. Reason and rationality will not work with them, any more than it would work with our ancestors of 10 thousand years ago.

        The 'rational' response, that is, the response appropriate to homo sapiens based upon our 200,000+ year evolutionary conditioning, is a bloodbath; a frenzied, terrifying destruction of all life in a very messy fashion. That gets the message across.

        You want to tell a three year old to stay out of the cookie jar, you do not reason with him. You tell him no, and when he tries it you swat his ass.

        Because a three year old is still a primitive, uncivilized homo sapiens.

        Likewise, you want to teach these people not to harm Americans, you make them suffer in the extreme for having done so. The swat on the ass, the carpet bombing of the region, they get the message across where high falutin' grad school language won't.

        We destroyed Dresden in a night. The firebombing of Tokyo did far more destruction than did both atomic bombs. It doesn't take "more advanced weaponry" than thousands of gallons of napalm.


        I'm not coming at this from a blood lust point of view; I'm not wanting to inflict suffering to satiate some mindless need for an eye for an eye.

        I know, in your people's world, women are equal and the initiation of force is insane, and blah blah blah. Check your premise. We're dealing with the naked apes of Earth, not carefully cultivated middle-class American IQs. And I don't mean that as a pejorative against Moslems or Afghans, but as a description of us as we really are, stripped of our intellectual sophistry.

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