China Calls US Cowards

Posted by  $  Thoritsu 1 year, 7 months ago to Politics
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I came across this in Defense News daily update. Interesting baiting of the US. They are playing this like a long, organized competition, and we are arguing amongst ourselves.
SOURCE URL: http://www.atimes.com/article/superpower-us-still-feels-insecure-beijing-jibes/


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  • Posted by  $  blarman 1 year, 7 months ago
    I'm just curious what "trends of the times" China wants us to "get with"...

    As an aside, this is straight out of "Art of War" by Sun Tzu. You never go into a military battle with someone unless you know you are going to win, and winning is all about mindset. This should be completely ignored from a psychological warfare aspect but should greatly concern us from an actual warfare aspect.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 year, 7 months ago
    China has no reason to feel insecure about the reckless rocketeering fat boy across their border who they keep propped up while lying to Trump about that.
    So far me dino has discerned from photos and videos that Kim Jong-un is the only obese person in the half-starved so-called "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea."
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  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 1 year, 7 months ago
    No wonder they call US cowards ."Beijing has been aggressively planting spies on US campuses." Said Deepstater FBI Wray.
    We all know students on campuses need "safe places for the snowflakes" I would report back with the same conclusion.
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    • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
      The statement to be ignored. The actions to be responded to, preferably with subtlety and then strength.
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      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 1 year, 7 months ago
        Yes but I feel more threatened by gangbangers or the " intelligence and other corrupt govt. agencies then I do the Russians or the Chinese. Hells bells types like Pelosi Clinton Obama on and on have been turning US into a people's state .
        We have let millions of ilegal aliens stay here and don't know who is a crook or spy or where they came from or who they are..
        Dammit they have dreams too , don't you see .....sham on me.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 1 year, 7 months ago
    China is a threat because of their one child policy. Chinese regard males as more valuable, and female infanticide has resulted in an oversupply of young men (roughly four million if I remember correctly) with no hope of a bride and family. Many of those lone young men are in the People's Liberation Army, but the Communist party doesn't want to keep supporting a growing military "jobs program." If they can't put the PLA to use and reduce the excess male population, they could be facing an army of unemployed, unhappy men with military training. They seriously fear a new revolution, and emphasizing how great an enemy China faces in the U.S. is one way to unify the people and tamp down dissent.
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    • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
      Excellent point Doc, and I think you are very accurate here. The do need some way to "cull the herd" and what better way than a nice local war? Just make it with someone who would have a hard time getting to you, and has lots of really cool toys to toss your way.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 1 year, 7 months ago
    A friend of mine who builds and sells electric vehicles has been talking to the Indian government about selling his vehicles there (he makes an enclosed trike that is the perfect replacement for the smelly two cycle "tuk-tuk" now being banned). It is noteworthy that the Indians regard Chinese products as crap, and are willing to pay more for American products because they're far more reliable.
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  • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
    While we worry about DACA people, our country is deteriorating and we arent paying attention to keeping it strong. I think the democrats are basically evil statists and have and will cause the destruction of what was a great country
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  • Posted by mia767ca 1 year, 7 months ago
    yes...Obama, Bush, & Clinton were cowards...I sent Trump an email suggesting he immediately embargo all "made in China" products...China would correct problems immediately...Rocket Man would be gone...and "dumping would stop or China would collapse...

    Nothing so far from Trump...until then, he is also a "coward"...
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    • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
      Our economy would crash immediately. if imports from china were stopped. Prices would skyrocket here, and sales would plummet as a result. Unfortunately, its too late for this kind of action. I agree China would be hurt also, but they would not fall as far as we would.
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      • Posted by mia767ca 1 year, 7 months ago
        so would China and there would be massive riots in both countries...that will be mild compared with what is coming if we do not something NOW!...trust me...China will blink immediately...this will be solved quickly...we are only where we are at due to "cowards" no acting in the past...and today will become the envied "past" all too quickly...
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        • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
          I think china could play other games and make it more difficult for us. Also, I dont see what China is doing that is so bad NOW? We are buying stuff from them because its so cheap compared to american goods, and that has kept inflation low here for a while now.
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          • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
            The reset you describe is inevitable, but the speed it happens is not given. Our standard of living is artificially inflated on the backs of Chinese labor. Eventually, this will come around.
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            • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
              I can relate a bit about how my small company has survived, which will give a little insight.
              In my previous businesses, we made almost everything using USA manufacture and USA labor.
              That was when I made medical devices. I sold that company because the FDA was being so nazi-like that they needed to approve ANYTHING that we would make that was new BEFORE we could even sell it. I resented this, and got out of the medical device field.

              Now I make off road LED lighting with no regulations. When we started in 2007, we bought all the parts here in the USA, and assembled them in Mexico using cheaper mexican labor, and building rent. We couldnt afford american labor.
              Today, we buy 75% of the parts and subassemblies from China in order to afford american rent, and american labor. This has enabled us to keep our prices somewhat in tune with other competitors.

              Then the chinese started competing directly from China, cutting our prices in half. We couldnt compete using USA labor and dropped out of that sub market.

              So, we reacted by buying more and more of the subassemblies from China, and only doing minor finishing work in the USA. This has enabled us to at least temporarily compete with direct chinese sales efforts. Fortunately for us, their quality is pretty bad )wont always be, however).

              The upshot of all this is that price inflation in our product lines has been kept artificially low by the competition from the chinese, and our costs have been kept low by changing from USA components to chinese components and subassemblies.

              We have now outsourced about all of the components and subassembies from China now. And I think other manufacturers have done the same. Now, the only way we can keep afloat is going to be through technological innovation, and raising prices.

              I see the spectre of price inflation going a bit wild now in 2018 as a result. Buying from china has spared the USA a lot of inflation, even in spite of our governemnt printing money like crazy. The money has been going to china and they have been stockpiling it. As that money flow increase starts to slow, money supply inflation will more quickly result in price inflation.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
                And the American consumer will buy a lot fewer gadgets regardless of where they are made.
                Almost all of the gadgets I have bought in recent years are 2nd hand - car, laptops, computer, computer components, furniture, phones, hi-fi components, music production gear. I did buy some new computer speakers that I could not find used- designed in TN, made in China, I think.
                I am looking into creating a line of hi-fi audiophile separates, and they will likely have components made in China. US labor can't compete on price, and Chinese production quality gets better every day.
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                • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
                  I can buy assembled PC board subassemblies from china (including components), cheaper than I can buy just the components here in the USA. I buy now 75% of parts and subassembles from chinese companies now for our line of LED products. The stuff from china is usually obtainable at 30-40% of the cost of USA made components and subassemblies (prob because the USA mfrs buy their omponents and labor FROM china too. As more people start to buy these things direct from china, the over inllated USA companies with their high overheads will simply lose business until they are GONE.
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                  • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
                    That is why tariffs were used by governments to raise money to run government services. They could claim it was being taken from foreign competitors to make it more fair to domestic producers. The free market can be very humbling when you live in a place with a high priced life-style (and high wage rate that supports the life-style) and have to compete with a place with a low cost life-style (and low wage rate.)
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                    • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                      Perhaps, but China is not freely competing in a free market. They have chained an entire population to slave, while few reap the benefits, until they dominate economically. This is not humbling.
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                      • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
                        And the US government steals from half the population to enrich themselves (few reap the benefits) until America is dominated economically. I agree there is not a real free market, but if there was, what I said would be true. In the past colonial powers often effectively did the same things to less advanced cultures, and that wasn't a free market either.
                        Robots will create even greater imbalances in the labor markets.
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                        • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                          An unyielding position is often untenable. How do we get from here to there.
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                          • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
                            If we could set policy, we deal with domestic issues as top priority while maintaining necessary defense, not empire building.
                            But we don't set policy, so we could use the most effective domestic weapon we still have against looters, the economy.
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                            • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                              Level setting has to happen. Someone (or something) has to do the low paying work, or it becomes higher paid (by demand) and prices go up. Standard of living must reset.
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                    • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
                      of course the tariff is really paid by the importer in USA consumer, the net benefactor is the government that collects the tariff
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                      • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
                        Exactly. Government produces nothing that people are willing to pay for voluntarily so they have to lie and loot to exist. However I would rather have an avoidable consumption tax than a mandatory (at gunpoint) production tax. But that would not feed the bankster system of credit money creation that currently exists (and requires constantly increasing indebtedness.) If we want it to change we have to cut consumption ourselves and break the bankster system, and provide an alternative system that is acceptable to 50.1% of voters. Difficult, but necessary, if we want to regain freedom without armed revolt.
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                      • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                        Then how do we deal with totalitarian governments that trap us in local minima?
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                        • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
                          Maybe by first cutting expenses on things we really don’t need. That reduces the need for income. Therefore sales taxes are reduced, income taxes are reduced, as are most other taxes. Government can only become more intrusive as it gets more money
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                          • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                            Expenses in government?
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                            • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
                              I meant cutting personal expenses. I don’t think we can cut government expenses given the statist bent of our government. But we can starve the beast somewhat
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                              • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                                I feel like we are giving up.
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                                • Posted by term2 1 year, 7 months ago
                                  I feel like the intellectual bankruptcy of the majority in our democracy (mob rule) presents such a force for collectivism that it’s virtually irreversible at this point. I think trump can slow this slide, but look at the resistance he is getting to nearly everything he is doing. He resistance to liberalism has gotten liberals and the establishment to hate him to the core. Obamacare will be replaced by Medicaid for everyone by 2020. The daca fix looks like 1.8 million new citizens will be legal. There isn’t much we can do about it. Revolution is coming along with economic collapse and martial law. Maybe not in my lifetime, but we will become another venezuela
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                                  • Thoritsu replied 1 year, 7 months ago
  • Posted by jdg 1 year, 7 months ago
    The US military is overextended, but that's mostly a result of bureaucratic inertia that Trump ought to do something about. There is no longer any good reason for us to be in Afghanistan, for instance, and we're helping the wrong side in Syria and should pull out of there, too. End those needless conflicts (and of course, the war on drugs) and the military doesn't need to be expanded.

    Prolong them and we merely ensure that, when somebody eventually does force us into a major war, we'll already be at war with so much of the world that we'll lose. Send troops into more of them (as China is trying to make us do in the Pacific) and it's even worse.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 1 year, 7 months ago
      Neither side is the right side in Syria. We never should have gotten involved there at all.

      The fight with China is over the South China Sea and Taiwan. In a strictly military setting, China is tremendously outgunned - and they know it. The only way they can win is a non-conventional war either by trying to nuke our fleets or cybrewarfare to go after our economy or power grid.
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      • Posted by jdg 1 year, 7 months ago
        I agree with you that the war in Syria now is pointless, as were several of our other recent wars over there.

        But I would support a Middle East war if it were to defend, or at least rescue, (1) Christians in countries like Egypt where they are being genocided; (2) Kurds and Armenians; (3) women trapped in countries like Saudi Arabia; and especially (4) Israel. But it should have a stated goal, and a commitment to stop when we achieve that goal, not sooner and not later.

        And we should have dumped several of our so-called allies in the region long ago because they oppose all of those causes. I'm talking about Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the Emirates, Pakistan, and whichever side in Yemen we're supporting this week. If they won't accept (1) through (4) then let all of them duke it out with Iran without our help, because they are just as bad as Iran.

        I would also like to see us start an Arabic-language equivalent of Radio Free Europe, to encourage people to either overthrow those countries or flee them. China would be a good target for a similar effort, too, and I'll bet Taiwan would be glad to host it.
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        • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
          There was a really interesting documentary on the History Channel a while back that covered how we got where we are, and it had to do with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who had attacked the British and was wanted for murder, running to Germany, and getting a radio station of his own, where he spouted "Jhihad" messages to all arab states for the rest of the war, till towards the end when he figured it was time to bail. He goes back, in hiding, hangs out, then reveals he is alive after the British withdraw and starts all over again.He was the inventor of "Jihad" as a war, and did it all as Nazi propaganda. The one of Hitlers best commando officers ( a real mean guy) goes to Egypt after the war (even though a wanted war criminal) and trains the Egyptian military, creates a secret commando group, trains them in all the terrorists techniques, and essentially creates Hamas.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relatio...

          http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmas...

          https://legalinsurrection.com/2015/10...
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      • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
        Need to be careful about assumptions with the Chinese, they love to have you underestimate and misread them. They have been pursuing a goal of technology and parity with Russia and the US for 30 years now, and have stolen a huge chunk of it. They would not be able to afford their huge military except they got a couple trillion of GDP based on stuff they never paid for. But they will be a dangerous adversary, who can outgun and out man you 10:1 even with trash. A lot of trash can still kill you.
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        • Posted by  $  blarman 1 year, 7 months ago
          Only in a ground war, where their numbers and "trash" can apply. In the sea or the air, they are no match for the USA. And yes, they have been stealing much of their technology, but that's been since the Korean War when they were getting much from the USSR and using it to fund North Korea in a proxy war against us. (And if you review that war, we were killing them 5 to one in the air.)

          And yes again with their looting. Between their currency manipulations, IP theft, and other shenanigans, they are way ahead of where they would be otherwise.
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    • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
      Jan, I dont think there is a "good" or "right" side in Syria, it has been a Russian puppet state since the 60's, and we never seem to learn "beware the mujaheddin you help today will become the Taliban of tomorrow". So, yes, there is no good place to be in Syria, except maybe to just tell them to keep their messes in their borders. The problem is always that the muslim world is like a democrat party meeting, new and better ideas keep popping up to take over. So, you have an enlightened self interest to try to keep a lid on it.
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  • Posted by  $  25n56il4 1 year, 7 months ago
    When I was very young, my employer, who served in the Army during WW2, told me he was having a drink with a Russian comrade. The Russian was very said and told him one day they would be enemies. My employer protested they were friends who had fought alongside one another. The Russian said, “You just don’t understand!” Neither can an Occidental understand the Oriental mind!
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  • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
    Just to add perspective, here is an article that indicates that a submarine crew died because they were, well, stupid, as well as having really, really bad equipment. After 20 years on submarines (4 of them on our last diesels) yes, you can eat up your air with the "head valve" closed (we did it on a Trident, lost depth control and our FairbanksMorse drew a large vacuum, until the safety switch cut in), but you ALWAYS have a redundant switch system in place that will kill the diesel when you reach an inch to an inch and 1/4 of mercury. If they didin't they are dumb submariners. But it shows the limitations and the people limits they have. They have a lot of people, and quanity has a quality all it's own, but they seem to still be trying to catch up.

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-...
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    • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
      FME is in trouble. Virginia and Columbia Class went to Caterpilar.

      I have a good story about a guy paralleling an FME gen, when a wave washed over the head valve, and he closed the breaker 180 out.
      Probably happened many times, but damn rough on equipment.
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      • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
        BUT FM engines were absolutely awesome. I was on the only Pacific force submarine to have a runaway in 1979/80 (USS Gudgeon), that is a spectacular event, had a crank case explosion and shut down finally, but they actually were able to rebuild it in the boat and get it going again after a month or so.
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        • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
          FME have the old designs, and they license larger Colt-Pielstick designs. Their engines are much larger and heavier that modern designs. Modern companies leveraging commercial breadth like Caterpillar and Wärtsilä have eclipsed them.
          We work with them and tried to help them win back the Columbia Class, but no avail. Nice people, old factory.
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          • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
            The is a show on Smithsonian channel on every Tuesday night at 2 am where they do a deep review of a large ship, and almost every one uses Wartsilia now. They are huge engines.
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            • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
              There are two main types of marine Diesel engines, low speed, direct drive and medium speed, which are more often generators for electric drive. Wartsila absolutely dominated the medium speed market. They made tons of money and bought a leading low speed supplier, Swiss Sultzer. This gave them that part of the market too.
              Those engines are huge, and usually build right into the ship under a license to the shipyard.
              The Finns are interesting and tenacious. Nokia, Wartsila, Vacon, the Switch...they get in, work hard, innovate and dominate in a non-exploitive fashion.
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              • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
                Nice, as a sonar tech, we had to be able to discerne the propulsion type and details, so we would practice on the merchants, back in the 70's a lot were running diesels in the reduction mode, and you could get gear counts on the harmonics, then it went more and more to DD and DE, so you had to compare screw blade to engine harmonics and go "oh, the same". If not you defaulted to DE.
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                • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
                  Makes sense. So your were a "Jones-y" from the Hunt for Red October?
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                  • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
                    Oh, God no. I even had a CO one dark midwatch come into Sonar and start that tripe, he was saying I reminded him of him, when I told him, "uh, Cap'n, I'm not black" he got depressed and went to harass the nukes aft. Our skills were basic and we used the tools at hand, I got some good catches and missed some more obvious ones. We were pretty good at doing off the cuff "Target Motion Analysis" (TMA) using the cute litle bearing rate slide rule the Navy had had since WW2. That was amazing that we could tell the fire control party they were all wrong, and prove it, with just basic geometry.
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      • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
        I am not sure what "closing a breaker 180 out" is, do you mean running it 180 degrees out of phase? Our system had a lockout that made you be in phase no more than .5% before you could start paralleling load, and the diesel was only on the non vital busses, the battery supplied vital busses which was why you HAD to heat up the hibachi and get it going again. You could use the diesel to feed a motor generator that was isolated and use it to charge the battery, in case you were in real deep doo, to try to get started again. The new reactor designs gave you a lot more latitude for start up scenarios.
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        • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
          Paralleled out of phase. No automatic lockout on most Nucs that I know of. Maybe the diesel boats had them, before Rickover.
          In this case, they were bringing the diesel on, paralleling it with a TG
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          • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
            I am pretty sure we had a lockout on ours, the EO took control of it when warmed up and could read how much out of phase it was so he could parallel it the the 2 500KW MG, switch the load from one to the diesel and then take it off line to use for the hibachi start up using the battery. The 2 500 KW would be feeding the whole boat as the SSTGs were off because the hibachi was down, so all you had was them running the whole load, so one was needed to feed it for start up and the diesel replaced it. If you could do it 180 out you would trash both vital and non vital busses depending on when, But you would never bring it on line until it matched. Diesel boats didnt have any diesel AC, they were all MG sets running on the battery, all we had was a big DC generator on the engine.
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            • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
              Strange. The first automatic sync on a Nuc I am aware of is on the Virginia Class, and it is all solid-state, using computer controls anyway. It syncs, you look at the synchroscope, and you close the breaker, which is permissive, based on the computer. This is for shore power though, because VA Class has a DC diesel.
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              • Posted by  $  nickursis 1 year, 7 months ago
                Oh, shore power was a totally different bird, for that. I remember a boat that hooked the phases up incorrect, threw the breaker and had a spectacular boom form the shore power trunk. That was after they supposedly tested and checked they were all aligned correct. I am amazed that the Virginia's would go DC except it might be a better way because then you can charge the battery directly, or feed a MG set for the hibachi, or power to the non vital bus. I saw a video a while back where they talked to the Admiral running the Virginia program, and it turned out he was my old weapons officer from my first boat (USS Will Rogers) in 1977/8. Glad to see he went up, he was a really good, fair guy and knew his stuff.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 year, 7 months ago
    "Frankly, the United States is under attack."
    "Coats noted that US adversaries and “malign actors”, including Russia and China, would use several tactics, including cyber and information warfare to challenge US influence around the world."
    Coats is saying if Country C uses various tactics to stop Country A's (in this case the US) from influencing Country B, that is tantamount Country C attacking Country A. Suppose it's people in Country B trying to undermine Country's A influence, is that an attack? How do you know who is the aggressor? Suppose China wants to influence Nepal to arrest and repatriate Tibetan separatists but India wants Nepal to allow the separatists to be there. Who attacked whom? Is it who started trying to influence foreign countries first?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
    I only wish that he was right about insecurity in the way he meant it. Daniel Coats is a lying sack of rubbish. Daniel Coats is a looter who seeks our economic enslavement and cares nothing about our security except as it adds to his power and wealth.
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    • Posted by  $  1 year, 7 months ago
      The Chinese could have been responding to any of various statements. It is their statement that is interesting to me.

      On one hand, they are clearly continually attacking us, and building up weapons. On the other hand, we are afraid of a hangnail, much less a real conflict.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 1 year, 7 months ago
        Could be the Chinese are insecure when considering all the wars the US has created in direct opposition to America's claimed goals and philosophy, and theChinese want to make it clear to the numbnuts neocons that such scheming will not work with a well armed adversary.
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