Are Alien Civilizations Technologically Advanced ?
The answer may depend on exo-planet politics?
Interesting article, aside from the "climate change" angle...(it's environment, stupid...Not Climate!)
However, the authors bring an interesting point.
Harkin back to ancient civilizations. They obviously had technologies and understandings of the cosmos we do not have today. They built out of stone and didn't broadcast their presents to the cosmos either but they seemed to get by quite well inspite of it all.
Let's look at this from a different perspective. Perhaps, as the books of Enoch pose, we had help from creatures that weren't quite on the up and up...evil you might say. They self destroyed their handy work, poisoned our genes and forever left us with that reminisce in the ruling structures and self assertive creatures of our world.
So, perhaps it would be a smart thing not to announce your presents to the cosmos, leaving the smallest footprint of life as possible so as to not attract the wrong kind of attention.
Of course, all this is conjecture and hypothetical but is something to consider.
Perhaps they are, in fact, watching and shaking their heads in amazement at us stupid humans.
Interesting article, aside from the "climate change" angle...(it's environment, stupid...Not Climate!)
However, the authors bring an interesting point.
Harkin back to ancient civilizations. They obviously had technologies and understandings of the cosmos we do not have today. They built out of stone and didn't broadcast their presents to the cosmos either but they seemed to get by quite well inspite of it all.
Let's look at this from a different perspective. Perhaps, as the books of Enoch pose, we had help from creatures that weren't quite on the up and up...evil you might say. They self destroyed their handy work, poisoned our genes and forever left us with that reminisce in the ruling structures and self assertive creatures of our world.
So, perhaps it would be a smart thing not to announce your presents to the cosmos, leaving the smallest footprint of life as possible so as to not attract the wrong kind of attention.
Of course, all this is conjecture and hypothetical but is something to consider.
Perhaps they are, in fact, watching and shaking their heads in amazement at us stupid humans.
There have been those who say that there are no advanced civilizations because with even simple calculations, they would expand their territory rapidly. In theory, these scientists say, we would already be in contact with these civilizations, if they existed. I contend that comes from an anthropomorphic view, assuming the aliens are like us. Whether from biological, cultural, or philosophic differences, there may be very good reasons why an alien civilization does not expend its reach quickly.
As Earth's human population becomes more affluent, barring a catastrophe, we will reproduce less, and our population will reach a stable point. Will that impede the Star Trek vision of ever-expanding human reach into the cosmos? As we are now finding technologies that promise longer lifespans, and artificial forms of birth, how will that affect our civilization? Trying to make predictions about alien civilizations is ridiculous when we can't even be sure where our civilization is headed.
Interesting thought on different time scales. Perhaps the vastness of the cosmos, the distances involved, prohibits our sharing the same time scales of other civilizations.
We (beings, conscious or otherwise) make up meanings to justify our existence and give - yes - meaning to it.
Intrinsically there is no meaning, only "stuff." All that "stuff" has no meaning, except what we create.
We are our own nightmare.
The mere exercise of thinking about these relationships is what brought about self awareness, self introspection and contemplation of our place within everything we see, experience, explore and wonder about.
Without meaning, we would not create, we would not have the drive to live and to better ourselves and would be forever stuck in an instinctive, reactionary animal like existence.
That's my outlook and the outlook of western civilization anyway.
Many want to believe in a "great scheme of things" to satisfy their questions, but there is no scheme behind the Universe.
I cannot understand why a natural Universe without some intrinsic meaning is so hard to accept. That does not mean that one's consciousness cannot through thought create a meaning for itself and its creator brain and body.
Excellent. ++++++++++++++++s
I don't see anything in nature that exists for no reason. My take is: that reason a thing exists is it's function and having a function to fulfill gives it meaning. (Conscious humans would naturally wonder about our function beyond just existing)(so we wonder too, what function does the universe fulfill...seems like a lot of energy and specificity to exist for no reason)
Does that make sense?...I'm having trouble expressing that thought.
I see, "meaning" a construct of our minds, as an effort to understand the function of something and developing a "reasoned" relationship to other things.
That is kind of what we do, right?
It's like the Electric universe theory which observes that without electricity and magnetism the physical universe could not exist so the Reason Life and the physical universe exist is the function of electromagnetism as causation.
I am trying to build a case that refutes the leftest "new age" idea that "We" create our own realities which to them, means it doesn't matter what you do...there are no rights and wrongs, no consequences.
They are wrong, it does matter what one does and we can observe, through the consequences of our own actions that there are right actions and wrong actions. Everything we do and think has an effect on everything else to some degree even if we can't see it.
Like the many experiments that show how we change the actions and outcomes of quantum particles moving through two different slits in a barrier by thought alone. We can observe the outcome and it's called an interference pattern.
I wanted to make it clearer as to where I was coming from. You helped a bit...I think.
This is the most difficult part of my work and I am not sure I can pull it off.
The balance of my new book depends upon it.
That is kind of what we do, right?"
You might look at it as minds producing metaphor about objective reality. Data from reality through the senses or by instrumentation enters the brain-mind as percepts which must be interpreted by what is already understood and is no more valid than how well the understanding is integrated non-contradictorily. Back in 1965 I did 5 low dosage LSD experiments and found that the brain chemistry is changed enough that I had to make an effort to interpret the changes in percepts from reality. There does not seem to be any shortcut to consciousness.
"It's like the Electric universe theory which observes that without electricity and magnetism the physical universe could not exist so the Reason Life and the physical universe exist is the function of electromagnetism as causation."
It is an hypothesis and not a theory. The matter in the Universe all contain particles which have electric and magnetic properties. So, yes the physical Universe could not exist with out electric and magnetic properties. Gravitation should be included in the causation premise since the large scale of the Universe depends upon it as you do to function upon the Earth.
Try to look at the EU hypothesis as something that main stream scientist have carefully looked at from a viewpoint of known physical laws and have found the the forces, etc. of the EU hypothesis are lacking in being an understanding of the physical universe. Try to fit the EU explanation for gravitation into a multi body system where it is known that each body attracts all the other bodies. That is not possible with the dipole lineups radially from the centers of mass. Might work somewhat for two bodies, but more bodies could not all attract one another. The polarizations could not be made right.
Sure we create mental realities, but what you get is whether the creation is objective or subjective.
Depends on whether one wants knowledge or to just to pretend to feel better.
"Like the many experiments that show how we change the actions and outcomes of quantum particles moving through two different slits in a barrier by thought alone. We can observe the outcome and it's called an interference pattern."
I have never seen any evidence that mind alone can change any experiment other than deciding to change the human body to do measurements on objective reality. In that case, physical reality has changed and different experimental conditions have change one should not expect the same results. The slit experiments is interesting in that no single particle shows any wave nature. Ensembles of particles have distributions which produce edge diffractions for single or multiple edges and show interference patterns between those diffraction patterns. One cannot expect to add the probabilities from one setup and another, say from one slit and from another slit, and get the probability distribution from a two slit setup.
But there has never been any mind over matter other than change the bodies actions and even that is somewhat questionable since there is some evidence that the brain has already initiated action before the conscious mind knows about it and just adjusts awareness to seem to consciously have decided to act. The free will thing seems, to me, to be just an inhibitory affect on action by the subconscious brain-mind.
I have not had time to edit that so there may be some typing mistakes.
As for gravity, yes it's an attractive force but very weak...attracting that which is close but electromagnetism is a much stronger force and doesn't seem to wane. I think the understanding is resonance effects multiple bodies in the universe along with an electromagnetic connection.
Have you checked out the EU theory?...seems to explain things more consistently than the gravitational model...it is really making it's way into the mainstream and physics as well.
Our understanding of all of this is evolving daily. Listen to suspicious0bservers.org every morning...Free! and links to NASA and nasa scientists provided.
Thanks for taking the time.
Be well...
Environment could mean all kinds of alien to our solar system. A space alien environment could b e virtual Garden of Eden, a living hell, wars, pandemics, too many volcanoes, floods, droughts, nasty solar activities, space invaders, you name it.
Some may have visited our ancient ancestors as that History Channel TV show drones on about it.
Others may have nuked themselves back into their previous Stone Age.
Others may be primitive yet civilized with advanced knowledge like the Mayans, who still cut out human hearts so the sun wouldn't go away. .
So many stars in so many galaxies is really mind-boggling.
I still wonder if we were to shrink a Hubble like telescope down to a size proportionate to an electron in a cell in our body and just look from that perspective...would it look much like the cosmos?
Bet the Marvel writer picked that up that notion from somewhere else.
Marvel would have secondary stories following Dr. Strange, Ant Man or Thor.
Believe The Fantastic Four and Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos generally went from cover to cover story-wise.
Memories, memories! Marvel comics and Beatles. Those were the days.
I never forgot it and still wonder about what it would look like inside the body at a size proportionate to that electron.
I still like science fiction but that was a can't get enough of it phase I was going through--kinda like The Beatles and Marvel comics.
My youngest of four little brothers read my books and has been hooked on science fiction ever since.
Anyway, I saw the movie. It was pretty good adaptation of the novel or so I thought way back then.
."And so, there it is in a nutshell. I have mine and I'll keep it and if I want more I'll create it by labor, invention, or performance. If you want yours, but by taking it from me you'll need to do it by force, and so, we become the ingeneous fools of the universe, just ask any Rod Serling Alien.
Conscious Homo Sapiens do not begrudge those that are more successful than ourselves; those that do, have a perversion set aside for the parasitical homo's. ( I can't in all good conscience call Them, sapiens): relating to, or being recent humans (Homo sapiens) as distinguished from various fossil hominids. [read humanoids]...wouldn't insult the great apes.
You are limited to what you could bring with you.
1) A Way to cut/manipulate rock
2) Portable Energy Devices
And when you left. What would you make sure you took with you?
The same.
And if you did do that, how would you try to leave behind the clues of WHO built it, and WHEN?
Astrology becomes the only feasible answer. Lots of stuff on History Channel and YouTube about this.
We may never know... But I never thought we were alone in the universe. I think there is a far better chance that we are the Penal Colony for this galaxy, LOL. Except we don't have enough different species if that were the case!
Like I stated: This is conjecture and theoretical entertainment.
I see your point about possibilities/probabilities and am aware of the difference. Technically, as you state, I guess they are mistaken.
There are more than 10^22 stars in the Universe and here in the milky way there seems to be planets around many to most of them. Say there are 10^22 planets in the Universe. So the probability of life on any of them is 1/ 10^22 since the sample size is just one, so is the best that is known and any other probability is pure mathematical guess work. There is a high possibility of other life forms but there is only an extremely small sample size to find a probability for that possibility.
Seems, from our perspective, the milkyway is in the middle of it all...makes one what to go...hmm.
When I viewed the video, I didn't see that uniformity but I do speculate that the entire system might be cyclical in nature and we are only seeing half of it. Those galaxy's and universes moving away might be heading to the other side of the great attractor...more at 11:00...laughing.
Language is important. Some way to communicate ideas. The inverse of NewSpeak, if you will.
In fact, there was STTNG where Captain Picard had to learn the planets history to communicate because all references were of their past, even to define things as simple as friendship. But they had advanced space travel, and I SCOFFED at this... Because if language requires so much work to express simple ideas... Imagine trying to define something as complex as a wormhole, or nuclear fission...
But I think that mean, cruel and even sadistic creatures could find their way to advanced civilizations. Look no further than Nazi scientists in our own history, later to become part of project Paperclip.
I hope you are right, but I fear you are not! And once an aggressive, conquering species comes out, and gains sufficient power... Look out! (Maybe it is best not to ring their doorbell?)
If the books of Enoch are at least partially factual then we have already been visited by evil races...I call them: The Fallen Idiots...besides falling favor to our daughters, they gave birth to the most vial critters in existence...the Nephilim...forefathers of the left, the crony and mentally ill.
I call them...the Great Unwashed Ruleless Delete.
It also seems that connection is fragile and can be lost, blocked or weakened via a host of purposed and natural circumstances.
Exercising that connection is key and thinking about such things as alien civilizations helps in that regard because we have to introspect our own existence. Viewing self is a key component to connecting to our minds...something the brain alone cannot do.
If they are emotional, I suspect they would have very much the same problems as we do and aren't any more advanced than we are given a similar timeline length.
I don't think for a second that another civilization would even consider (necessarily) Objectivist values as even a value. From the very beginning, literally, their history would be completely different, and so the growth of their civilization, if they have one...would also be completely different.
I am not sure we would even recognize a different civilization, or the beings that belong to it, as existing, much less be able to "understand" it, even to the smallest extent.
But that mental exercise is what keeps us from getting old. At least, I hope it does, even though I know the inevitable will happen.