Net Metering
Posted by tkstone 6 years, 3 months ago to Technology
I am looking for a few sharp engineering minds. Is it possible that with the advancement of battery technology that we may have reached a point where net metering is a moot point. If individuals can invest in adequate solar production and storage systems while being connected to a community grid that allows for a balanced system that the amount of power is no longer an issue. The key would be adequate production and storage. I think this would require a suitable level of size for flexibility and reliability. Any thoughts? Just looking for some active minds and this was the first place I thought to look.
In some places, it works OKAY. I have a friend in Canada who has portable panels he wheels out to run 12V drills, etc. Practices living off the grid, his own water, etc.
Here is the dilemma overall, and in Florida (specifically). Florida is TOO HOT with TOO MUCH SUN. (new fabrication techniques are addressing this). But as the stuff HEATS UP, it performs worse, like most electronics. In Orlando, they had builders building the homes with the solar panels on the roof, and 20 year warranties. The Companies went under LONG BEFORE the warranty was up. When claims were processed, the LABOR COSTS of replacing/rewiring far exceeded the value.
My calculation keeps coming down to this. I use about 20=25% of my electricity when there is no sun. So the most I can reduce my electric bill is 80%. My AVERAGE electric bill is $150/month (I have extra attic insulation, and adjusted vents to cool where we need it most, and I work out of the house! 3BR 2 Bath, Attached Garage. I also HEAVILY TINTED All windows. That reduce my Electric bill YEARS ago by $10-12/month). Meaning, I am not the typical person in some ways. Neighbors have $200/mo or more, but slightly bigger homes.
Batteries in FL outside don't last due to heat. The 5yr Die Hards only get a 2-3yr warranty when you buy them!!! Ignore batteries, because if I have to store them in the house, I don't have the room, and they run up the A/C bill by generating heat.
150x12 = $1,800/yr * .80% = $1,440/yr. (My potential savings if I got 80% of my power from Solar)
The last quote I got was $36,000 with a 20 year warranty on PARTS ONLY, and panels pro-rated after 15yrs.
Lets assume 20 and I have no problems. Lets assume no damage to my roof. Lets assume I get the sun I need,
although it is Florida, and I know better (we have trees nearby). My house peak runs east-west, making my panels face North and South.
I am looking at $1,800/year UP FRONT to pay down a $1,440 expense. Over 20yrs.
If those numbers were REVERSED, I would be investing $28,800 to get a $36,000 benefit... It would START to get interesting.
Factor in the average person is staying in a house for 7-10 years (going up nowadays because fewer can afford to move).
And I can't seem to get this investment to make any sense. Now, electricity is going up in price. It's up 20% this year, so I had to update my numbers (they were actually worse before).
I actually would like to see us go SUPER CLEAN and put IFR Nuclear Reactors out there. Which actually can consume the Nuclear WASTED Rods from the OLD Reactor designs... With no meltdown risks.
Power supplies can be tailored to the area. With enormous coal supplies, why should a West Virginia grid struggle with wind or solar? Oklahoma has tremendous wind potential, and can rely on natural gas generators for backup. New Mexico is an excellent choice for a solar grid. Riverfront communities should investigate the new in stream small ganged generators that use the natural flow and don't require dams.
When you're not talking about limited space for batteries, the power density is less important than the cost per watt. Lithium batteries will remain expensive compared to other types. Lead acid or lead silicate batteries are much less costly to purchase, but the frequency of replacement makes them expensive for large supply systems. Nickel-iron batteries, often called Edison batteries, are cheap to make, and last an incredibly long time, so if I was constructing a storage system, I'd look into the Edison. The problem is that there are few who make the Edison battery anymore, so a community might have to start its own production line.
Again, the storage system can be tailored to the local conditions. With a good water supply, it may be easier and less costly to pump water into tanks or natural high elevation areas, and use the downslope flow to run backup generators.
Those are a few ideas, and I have more, including a way to construct large vertical axis wind generators without using heavy equipment.
I'm fortunate that they haven't tried this kind of nonsense in my area, but I've read some pretty scary stories about the abuses of these "smart" meters. I've even heard of some people claiming that these "smart" meters were remotely resetting their thermostats and when the people called the power companies, they were told it was for their own good.
And that's largely a function of who has control of the information. I'm leery of corporations having my private information, but I'm absolutely paranoid about the government having it - beyond the necessary tax information. We've already seen what the IRS did with private information and how they wanted more for the express purpose of regulating and constraining speech.
Cloudy days are a problem and a problem we will have to live with during The Grand Solar Minimum.
Batteries? expensive but vital...ever price a tesla battery? and golf cart battery's are very heavy.
But to your point, Yes,if one had a system that produced reliably, net metering would be moot.
The new vertical wind generators would be my choice in my area, they would produce something to a lot everyday and they would keep the batteries charged.
The Grid is another issue, especially going forward. It too, will not be 100% reliable.
Any way to use these with the 10 KW of solar panels we just had installed on the roof?
Nearly all are subsidized by various government rules, let me count the ways (1):
- requiring power distributors to take solar generation in preference to others
- giving money to households to buy solar panels
- requiring power distributors to buy solar power generated by household panels
at a high rate which government may refund
- making a charge on coal/oil/diesel generating stations, supposedly for their 'carbon' emissions,
then using that money, as solar credits, to give to solar generation owners
- low interest loans, as well as grants (free money), often up-front, to owners of solar power generators
- preferential supply of various government services such as relaxed zoning, roads and water supply
to solar companies.
And so on. Wind generation = same difference.
There are non-stop claims that solar power is economic, or will be next year.
Claims that may be hard to dispute unless you know all the subsidy tricks and market manipulations used.
Electricity generation especially from so-called renewables is capital intensive, that is, money out is usually upfront, and capital costs are there even without sales. This makes pricing difficult and business
viability analysis complicated and makes it easy for the ignorant to claim the power is 'free'.
CaptainKirk yes. Solar generation in Germany is economic only with creative accounting.
As for batteries, heat and irregular use patterns reduce life.
Important, the power has to be generated before it can be stored.
tkstone - net metering,
if electrical power is used, which it is in large amounts,
do not bank on the net becoming too cheap to meter.
(1) apology to Shakespeare's sonnet.
The solar and wind farms necessary are at the very least eye pollution and most don't want them near by [property value impact].
Please kept the Gulch informed of your progress.
+1