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"... communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote." - Ayn Rand

Posted by GaltsGulch 8 months, 2 weeks ago to The Gulch: General
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"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand


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  • Posted by term2 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    Its a war out there, and we NEED to take sides. Anyone who voted for hillary is definitely on the other side, and out of my life for sure.
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  • Posted by fosterj717 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    That statement isn't entirely true being that Socialism can only work under threat of force! As every Soviet era schoolchild knew, Socialism was a weigh station on the way to full blown Communism and Communism was dictatorship!

    It was and still is a sham and construct of a totalitarian society that can only exist in conjunction with some Orwellian dictatorship.....

    For these reasons, people like Bernie Sanders keep selling the snake oil that "Democratic Socialism" is some benign and non-threatening panacea and antidote to Capitalism.

    Fools teach this garbage and idiots buy into it! For what its worth!
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    • Posted by term2 8 months, 2 weeks ago
      It is a war out there, and we need to take clear sides. Sanders is an evil man, which finally came out when he went after Trump and caved in with Hillary. Hillary is an evil hag, and interestingly enough, at least half the population here acted on that in the quiet of the voting booth.
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    • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 months, 2 weeks ago
      It is not fools who preach socialism. It is the power hungry who plan on building death camps if they succeed.
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      • Posted by fosterj717 8 months, 2 weeks ago
        I agree to a certain extent however, these "power hungry" types who preach Communism/Socialism as some panacea for the ills of the world can only be described as fools (if they in fact believe this tripe) and yes, probably wish to be on the top of the heap ruling over the others that bought into the blather!

        A great example would be Andrew Carnegie who loved the young Socialists for their sincere belief in the concept. However, even though Carnegie promoted Socialism and even contributed to it, he and his kind would never live as Socialists! That is a fact!

        Bernie Sanders preaches his idiotic brand of Socialism and the young who have been brainwashed now for generations have happily bought into the rhetoric. They think that you can get something for nothing and that is what they are banking on!

        No, fools teach this stuff and the ill-informed buy into it. That is why many see us as already being more Communist/Socialist then they are (Greece is a perfect example). Marx, Engles, Stalin, lenin and the rest have benefited from the largess of folks like JP Morgan, Carnegie, Ford and Armand Hammer, why, because in order to sell weapons and keep the world at varying states of war, requires the dynamics of war. Things have not changed however Socialism being the "preferred" way ahead, helps facilitate this state of agitation. Gramsci, Stalin, Allinsky, Clinton and a host of others keep it going.....FWIW!
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        • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 months, 2 weeks ago
          There are undoubtedly a few true believers who have remained child like in their faith in socialism. However after a century of every implementation being a disaster the vast majority know what they are doing. Adult Socialists are after power. At the very best they hold people in contempt believing they cannot care for their own lives, but most are after power for power and what it brings them.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    I enjoyed Maggie Thatcher's observation, "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." Then there's Churchill's view, "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    what AR might not have seen as she viewed the US turning into a socialist state is the fact that the US government has established agencies that are working at enslaving the productive part of the population. observe ALL of the rules and regulations that have been put in place not by the congress but by agencies such as the EPA and OSHA to name but two. how about the use of executive orders that come from the president.
    now I learned that a memo from the DOJ allowed states to chose to vote for legalizing mj.... only to see a new head of the DOJ send out a memo recinding that recognition of states rights.. so I ask you who is in charge? BLANK! the stark reality is that those following my generation are versus will be confronted by a growing mass of new rules and they will be forced to comply or die. my observation is that the USA is experiencing a combining of communism and socialism into one versus one or the other. the world I was born into no longer exists!!!
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    • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 months, 2 weeks ago
      That process and its results are the plot of Atlas Shrugged. Until Trump we were living the slow collapse of the country under the Democrat Mr Thompson, Obama complete with the crony capitalism and 1% economy growth. Now that foot is slowly being removed from our necks.
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      • Posted by swmorgan77 8 months, 2 weeks ago
        "Until Trump"

        LOL. He's a big-government politician too. I'm glad he cut some taxes, but come on. Look at ALL the things he proposes government be involved in that absolutely violate the proper role of government.

        Not to mention his outright hostility to the intellect and the culmination of authoritarian tendencies in the GOP that he represents.
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      • Posted by term2 8 months, 2 weeks ago
        I voted for Trump to try and slow down the march to socialism. He isnt intellectually consistent enough to actually reverse that march to socialism, but he can slow it down. A dyed in the wool objectivist would NEVER get elected to much of anything in this present culture.
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      • Posted by wiggys 8 months, 2 weeks ago
        is trump not a fool? in 2 years we will know if his policies have worked for the basic population. at this juncture I do not think so. much of the retail businesses through out the country are on borrowed time.
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        • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 months, 2 weeks ago
          Trump is the best man to be President since Reagan. For the first time in a generation regulations are shrinking and the economy is growing at 3-4 %. As for retail, it is being revolutionized by the internet in the person of Bezos.
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          • Posted by wiggys 8 months, 2 weeks ago
            amazon is not good for the economy! they will always go off shore for product! they will pay the least price that they can find! they will ultimately start to hurt if the already haven't many of the branded merchandise seen in retail stores! they are bad news!!!
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            • Posted by mccannon01 8 months, 2 weeks ago
              Hi wiggys. I'm not writing this response to disparage your thoughts, but to illustrate there's more going on here than meets the average eye.

              "they will pay the least price that they can find!" Isn't that the general rule of a Capitalist free market enterprise? That is to offer the greatest value for the least cost? The problem isn't businesses like Amazon that follow their directive to grow and stay in business. The problem is how is it possible to do some of what they do? Think about an episode within the third debate between Trump and the Evil Hag before the 2016 election. Trump had mentioned the building he was putting up in Las Vegas as an example of his ability to be a private sector producer and get things done. Hillary quickly tossed out the snarky remark "made with Chinese steel". The remark was meant to elicit a reaction like your post above.

              Trump missed a great opportunity to pose the problem in its proper perspective. That is, how is it possible for a steel mill on the other side of the world in a communist country able to supply steel to an American business at a better price than an American mill virtually right down the road? Could it be the foreign country is somehow subsidizing their industry or manipulating their currency? How about bad foreign policy and trade deals set up by the American government? How about bad domestic policies of our governments at all levels that are adversarial to domestic production of anything? [Side note: Yes, management and labor have their share of blame in muddying the waters of American steel production, but that is a long discussion outside this one as government bureaucrats wasted no time in stirring that pot as well.] At least Trump does point a finger at our own governments policies as part of the problem and wants to revisit those policies to do something on America's behalf.
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            • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 months, 2 weeks ago
              Was Sears good in 1900 when it put many small town stores out of business? How about Walmart which in turn undermined Sears? It is called the free market and creative destruction.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    Socialism, like Communism, once established, can only be maintained by threat of force. When a system survives only by the sword or gun liberty is dead.
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  • Posted by  $  Snezzy 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    We might attempt to read any of the philosophers who are represented as the basis for Fabian Socialism. The best of them recognize the distinction between the primacy of existence and the primacy of consciousness, and (as far as I can see) come down uniformly favoring the primacy of consciousness, although they argue greatly about the nature of that primacy. In a truncated version of "Aristotle versus Plato" they are looking to determine whether ideas are inherent in nature, or instead exist in a World of Forms.

    The question on how to live our own lives and how to deal with or rule others then becomes not "which is right?" but "which has the power?" "Who shall rule thee, thy God, whose existence cannot be proven, or I who stand right here before thee with my gang and our clubs? Join us. We are the future. YOU are NOT."

    Rand referred to the mystics of mind versus the mystics of muscle. Communism has tried the muscle. The red flag is for the blood to be shed. Fabian Socialism claims opposition to the heavy-handed methods of Communism. "Why should we kill you? It won't be necessary at all if you prove yourself a good person. All good people support Progressive Socialism. Don't be seen as a bloodthirsty Communist or Capitalist. Join us, please."

    Socialism is a kinder, gentler slavery, sacrificing only the few for the good of the many. "Roarks, Reardens and Galts are only in fiction. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are one of them. They do not even exist. You shouldn't , either."
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    • Posted by  $  Maritimus 8 months, 2 weeks ago
      Hello, Snezzy,
      May I ask whom do you quote in the last paragraph?
      Thank you in advance.
      All the best.
      Sincerely,
      Maritimus
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      • Posted by  $  Snezzy 8 months, 2 weeks ago
        It's a fictional quote that I made up, the same kind of thing that I have heard many times from those trying to tell me to abandon Rand because she is unrealistic and not in tune with the received wisdom of Progressivism.

        When I initially read Rand I could not believe that her bad guys were at all realistic. Eventually I changed my mind. If I had not, then the events of the past ten or so years certainly would have done it. The sad part is that I know people, some of them very well meaning, who still support Obama and loathe Trump.
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  • Posted by Jujucat 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    I'm assuming your wife is alright with property rights being upheld by a limited government? If so: Whos lake was it? Wouldn't they sue the company who dumped in it?
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 months, 1 week ago
    Doing it by vote is doing it by force--if the law im-
    mediately has the police come in and use the force.
    Even if the result isn't immediate, if slavery results, the ones who voted it in are still morally guilty. (Should they then be prosecuted if the country later turns to freedom? I guess not. Prosecuting people for their vote would not be acceptable. But people should be careful ahead of time).
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  • Posted by chad 8 months, 2 weeks ago
    There is a slim difference between the two, one is naked in the use of its force the other sublimely sells the notion that it is for your own good but to be sure it works it will be 'enforced'.
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